Bedini Earth Light

[plengo]

Is there some problem that has kept this idea from being developed further???

Lidmotor

I think the issue with Alum in lead batteries is the problem of expansion. Alum will increase the area inside the cell and crack the container. So if you are manufacturing alum/lead batteries you would be out of business very soon.

Fausto.

[Lidmotor]

Expansion

I think the issue with Alum in lead batteries is the problem of expansion. Alum will increase the area inside the cell and crack the container. So if you are manufacturing alum/lead batteries you would be out of business very soon.

Fausto.

John seems to have a handle on that by adding a small amount of Cream of Tartar to the mixture but I see what you mean. Those Alum crystals really do grow. One of my old crystal cells is made out of a plastic electronics box and it is all pushed out of shape because of the crystal expansion. If you kept the Alum dissolved in a wet cell configuration it might be OK -----but let it dry out and like you say,...."you would be out of business.." The battery would burst. Not a good thing.

@cgalvisadila
Thanks for posting that link to the "Penny" oscillator circuit. Many people ask me about that. It is really just an old blocking oscillator circuit and the only thing that I consider unique about it is the dollar store twist tie wire coils. Those coils are steel wire and that makes it somewhat unique. It was just a whimsical project that turned into the best low power led oscillator that I ever made. It is a testing tool that I use all the time now on these low power homemade cells.


Lidmotor

[pastfuturetechnology]

Clarification

I just wanted to clarify a few things if anyone can help..

I am noticing a black corrosion on my magnesium cores and I thought I read that black corrosion was good?

Is this true and how does it help? It seems to reduce the power generated for me (losing a little bit of power over time).

Also, I wanted to confirm: do insulators block both voltage and amperage? or only one or the other?

Thanks for any help!

[Slider2732]

@ pft - Not ignoring ya in this post, i've just never used magnesium.

Good progress here.
I took the 2 plates that were from the 12V gel battery and converted them to a safe to handle rechargeable cell.
2 cotton balls were soaked in an Alum/distilled water solution and put between the plates.
I then used electrical tape to seal up the cell.
A small space was left at the top and clear tape placed over it. That's to allow for bubbling and other effects. Also, to enable rewetting the cotton if it dries out.
The cell had to be reformed, but I used the same plate polarities.
It's just about the same dimensions as a cellphone battery

Here it is running an LED oscillator, to a much brighter level than the whole 12V gel battery originally did !

[b_rads]

Making Lead Plates



@Lidmotor and all:



Brad S

[Lidmotor]

The freight train is rolling !!

The beauty of these projects is that they evolve. A bunch of smart people take a idea and just start making it better. Thanks to John and Chuck for getting the train moving ---and now it's really starting to roll. Sometimes these projects end up in a dead end but things are learned along the way. Sometimes we end up with a truely useful item. Making a simple inexpensive rechargeable battery that won't burn your face off seems like a pretty good idea.

@Slider
Congratulations on making a "semi" sealed version. Just remember what Fausto said about the Alum crystals growing. That cell you made might end up expanding like a balloon if it drys out.

@B rads
Congratulations on making the plates from sinkers. I made a 4 sinker cell and soldered copper wire onto the sinkers for connections. So far I have had no problems. The Alum/distilled water electrolyte doesn't touch the joint.

@All
It might be a good idea to start testing the ph of the electrolyte to see if it is swinging to far one way or the other. So far I have not seen (or felt) any burning.

I found out that you can dry the cell out and reactivate it easily once the plates are formed. Stored in a dry state, these cells could sit idle for years (like the military battery Chuck and John showed) and then brought back to life by simply adding the electrolyte and recharging. The lead metal electrodes don't deteriorate.

Lidmotor

[Nick_Z]

B_rads and All:
Sounds good, let us know how it goes with your homemade plates...

I was thinking that maybe what we can do, is to just find old car batteries, open them up and use their plates like Slider has done. The plates which are still in good shape. Otherwise just buy a new battery and fill it with Alum, like John suggested. Those that can afford to do that.
Auto-wreckers also sell used batteries much cheaper, especially ones that may not be 100% operational, for a few bucks. Motorcycle repair shops also.
The tire weights may also be melted down and any impurities of metals other than lead can be skimmed of also. As most LAB plates are not made of pure lead either.
You can also check online to buy new battery plates of all types. China sells them, but won't tell the price unless you e-mail them first. That may be easier, and possibly even better, than making and melting down our own. What we also need to determine is which of the two salts, Epsom, or Alum, is the best one to use, although they both may work. The bigger the plates are, the more output current, so bigger is better, although voltage is about the same.
If I'm not mistaken, John has mentioned that Alum is the best way to go, but for some of us, Epsom, can be obtained possibly easier from most drug stores. And cheaper?
Since Lithium cells are the densest and have the best output per weight, maybe old Lithium cells can also be opened up and looked into. Just wear a mask, snorkel and flippers, and don't breath.
Most of us use alkaline batteries, without knowing that they contain Mercury, Cadmium, and some other goodies in them as well. Well, there's probably worst things in the food we eat. But it tastes so good... MSG and all.
NickZ

[conradelektro]

Be careful with lead

I do not want to spoil the lead cell party. But any exposure to lead seems to carry a high risk:

Lead poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ("In most cases, lead poisoning is preventable by avoiding exposure to lead.")

Do not saw, file, sand or drill lead. Wash your hands after handling lead.

Many might know this, just in case you don't.

Greetings, Conrad

[Allwest]

I do not want to spoil the lead cell party. But any exposure to lead seems to carry a high risk:

Lead poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ("In most cases, lead poisoning is preventable by avoiding exposure to lead.")

Do not saw, file, sand or drill lead. Wash your hands after handling lead.

Many might know this, just in case you don't.

Greetings, Conrad

I second that

[Allwest]

I just wanted to clarify a few things if anyone can help..

I am noticing a black corrosion on my magnesium cores and I thought I read that black corrosion was good?

Is this true and how does it help? It seems to reduce the power generated for me (losing a little bit of power over time).

Also, I wanted to confirm: do insulators block both voltage and amperage? or only one or the other?

Thanks for any help!

Past,

I have noticed any color corrosion corrodes the Mag, its just a matter of time

Don't know about insulators

Best of luck

[Slider2732]

Forgot to mention in the top post of the page about rinsing with distilled water, after neutralising with Baking Soda..otherwise the battery would neutralize itself all the time ! Sorry about that.

Tests today have shown the most effective charging method so far, for the 2 plate 'cellphone' battery. I'm using an Electrifly Ni-CD/Ni-MH balancing charger at 200mA (lowest setting).
It charges in around 15 minutes and settles from 1.8V, with a slow discharge over an hour, to around 1.3V. Then, it drops very slowly indeed. But, can be dragged way low to about 0.6V when running stuff before I charge it...not really sure where to quit using it, but it's holding up. No real idea about capacity so far.
Useful pointers include that it takes longer to charge each time and seems to drop slower each time when used, or at rest. I believe that's a sign of capacity increasing and indeed the first charge it flashed an oscillator for only a few minutes when drained to 0.6V, but the last time flashed until i got bored with it after an hour.
It bounces back readily after being used with a heavy load.
This thing has replaced my Ni-MH usual batteries in worktable experiments.
I think it may be similar to Ni-Cd's, where the most power is available straight off the charger, but do expect all to be the same as any Alum converted car battery.

Anyhow, just to say that they can be charged readily and safely with such a hobby charger



@Lidmotor - good point about the crystals. I'll just farm them out to crystal cell reuse and redo with a couple more cotton balls. Would have been a good idea to use plexiglass or something to keep an eye on that

[Lidmotor]

Regular Lead acid battery conversion

@All
John Bedini did a great video on how to convert a regular lead acid battery to Alum. It is long but very detailed and walks you through all the steps.

Conversion Of A Dry-Charge Lead Acid Battery To an Alum Crystal Cell Battery John Bedini - YouTube



Lidmotor

[DadHav]

B_rads and All:
Sounds good, let us know how it goes with your homemade plates...

I was thinking that maybe what we can do, is to just find old car batteries, open them up and use their plates like Slider has done. The plates which are still in good shape. Otherwise just buy a new battery and fill it with Alum, like John suggested. Those that can afford to do that.
Auto-wreckers also sell used batteries much cheaper, especially ones that may not be 100% operational, for a few bucks. Motorcycle repair shops also.
The tire weights may also be melted down and any impurities of metals other than lead can be skimmed of also. As most LAB plates are not made of pure lead either.
You can also check online to buy new battery plates of all types. China sells them, but won't tell the price unless you e-mail them first. That may be easier, and possibly even better, than making and melting down our own. What we also need to determine is which of the two salts, Epsom, or Alum, is the best one to use, although they both may work. The bigger the plates are, the more output current, so bigger is better, although voltage is about the same.
If I'm not mistaken, John has mentioned that Alum is the best way to go, but for some of us, Epsom, can be obtained possibly easier from most drug stores. And cheaper?
Since Lithium cells are the densest and have the best output per weight, maybe old Lithium cells can also be opened up and looked into. Just wear a mask, snorkel and flippers, and don't breath.
Most of us use alkaline batteries, without knowing that they contain Mercury, Cadmium, and some other goodies in them as well. Well, there's probably worst things in the food we eat. But it tastes so good... MSG and all.
NickZ

Hello Nick. I noticed you mentioned LiPo batteries. I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but they can be really dangerous. I know this for fact because I've incinerated a few. Shorting, piercing or over charging could cause some real grief. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. If you typed LiPo Fires in YouTube you might be surprised.
Take care.
John Hav.

[redrichie]

Not to be ignorant. But what are the advantages to an alum conversion of a lead acid battery? I understand there is no dangerous sulphuric acid. I see that it can take a fair amount of abuse. So does it charge quicker than L A ? Does the charge last as long as LA? Does it still gas?
Please help as I thoughtthe crystal battery was intended to be a device that didn't deteriorate or consume the cathode/anode . I mean obviously if this is the natural progression of the science than thomas Edison realised this long ago and our need for power required acid to facilitate the lead to move. A properly handled lead acid will last years if not abused. Even john has said this himself. So where does this go? Thanks guys.

[DadHav]

Red Lead

Hello all.
I was wondering if we could talk a little more about the Red Lead.
How important is it to have it on the lead plates. Is it so important that you wouldn't want to make the lead only plates?
I've seen red lead for sale on E-Bay, but is there any substitute material or is there any way to get to oxide form by a chemical reaction or something?s?
John the video of making the battery and preparing the plates was really good and informative, but it was a little hard to follow the preparation of the red lead. Did you just mix a paste with water? It doesn't dissolve does it? Did you put the red lead on only one side of the plates? On all of them?
Rusty mentioned something about Cream Of Tartar. Did you use of this in your recent batteries, or just Alum?
You mentioned the two negative plates of the hand made battery in the video where smaller than the center plate. Are the two outside plates used because you want to take advantage of a chemical reaction beween both faces of the center plate? I would assume then, this is the reason the outside plates can be slightly thinner right.
I hope all the answers aren't scattered about on some of the pages but I didn't notice them while skipping through. I'm very sorry for just showing up all of a sudden and asking a lot of questions. If anyone cares to help me along with any of this I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks again John and everybody.
John Hav