Bedini 10-coil

[Tysla]

so... they are being secretive about what's possible to do with these. is it up to the community to make developments with this kit and make it open?

has anyone done this successfully?

[Littleremnant]

Well, I guess no one knew the answer to that question. Didn't mean
to run everyone off.

[iankoglin]

Well, I guess no one knew the answer to that question. Didn't mean
to run everyone off.

G'Day Littleremnant
When you Charge or discharge a battery there is a chemical reaction taking place in the battery and after you have finished Charging or discharging the batteries it takes a little time for the chemical reaction to finish its action and therefore it is essential to let the battery rest.
There are many articles on the web relating to this even one called The Battery Bible I think from memory may have been written by JB?

Regards Kogs

[Littleremnant]

Thanks so much iankoglin, but you missed my point here. This statement
was framed in the context of swapping batteries that weren't cap pulsed.
Actually the ones that are charged with the big 10 coiler or equivalent.
John says that you CAN'T swap those batteries, but THEN makes this statement
alluding to the fact that you CAN swap them, IF YOU LEAVE A TIME PERIOD
after charging. None of that made sense. No one can seem to confirm or
deny this statement as such. I seem to be the only one confused with what
John says.

Thanks again for answering

[chasson321]

Capacitors

Is it correct to say that on the Bedini Ten Coil setup there are no capacitors used?

Tim

[Plazma]

Why (Not?) Cap Pulsers . . .

@LittleRemnant, et al . . . I have chosen, for the time being given the size of my big batteries, to cap pulse charge them and not chance the problem of having to swap a radiantly charged battery to the front-end of the 10-coiler. Maybe, as you say that JB infers, there is a settling time after a radiant charge that is required for a battery to stabilize but I don't have data myself to support that (yet). Using a cap pulser begs the question, "What does one give up - that is, does direct radiant provide significant benefits beyond (maybe FAR beyond) just cap pulsing?" Personally, I suspect it does but I'm not willing at this early stage of the game to spend a long time conditioning my huge batteries because I have other aspects of my research that I deem more important that claim my time, at present (more about that in a moment). In due time, I intend to answer the question as stated above.

John B. hints at a lot of things, from time-to-time, that deepen the mystery of negative or radiant energy for all of us, and one has to be very careful and get into the context of his statements - not always an easy thing to do. For example, there are the quotes and inferences to Gabriel Crohn's work which, sometimes, suggest complex networks of various types of currents and pathways exist in a LA battery. It is not the simple, electrochemical device we have here-to-fore taken for granted, especially if it can be thrown into one or more modes of time dilation/regression and thus exhibit negistor behaviour. Then there are all the effects of pulsing this device using various forms of switching, some more effective than others, such as bipolar fets, spark gaps, even slamming them with the terminals of other LA batteries (cf Tesla Switch). How one switches sets several 'currents' into motion or transposes potentials - sometimes producing 'good' results, and sometimes not so good, depending on the quality and state of the apparatus including the battery being charged.

I remember JB stating something about the Jim Watson episode, where Watson's batteries were swiped during a show and, then later, the machine was purchased and Watson disappeared, that whomever got the Watson machine 'got the surface charge' but missed the 'biggie' or words to that effect. The take away (for me) was that Watson was perhaps using cap pulsing to keep his source batteries charged. It was a monster of a machine and ran most imressively (a big, self-runner). Even so, JB intimates that there was a lot more to achieve and that both Watson and the mysterious machine grabbers left a lot on the table . . . go figure

My own research - what claims my time - I have been trying to use radiant for the past 4 years on another electrochemical system to trap (and amplify) energy. I have invested significant time and resources to build infrastructure of a size and quality that I believe will now enable me to achieve my research goals in this alternative system. I can now, using the 10-coiler and related apparatus, produce and control enough radiant to move forward. LA batteries are an interesting model to study, but they are not the only elements/systems that exhibit the characteristics that Gabriel Crohn talks about, in my opinion - so I plod along, adding pieces to an incredibly complex and interesting puzzle. When I have enough tangible, verifiable test data so as not to waste forum members' time, I will divulge the results of this alternative quest and open it up - but not until. Anything I learn about charging (and, some day, swapping) big LA batteries as I trundle along, I will be happy to share.

Happy Swapping (batteries, that is ) -

Plazma

[iankoglin]

Swapping Batteries

Thanks so much iankoglin, but you missed my point here. This statement
was framed in the context of swapping batteries that weren't cap pulsed.
Actually the ones that are charged with the big 10 coiler or equivalent.
John says that you CAN'T swap those batteries, but THEN makes this statement
alluding to the fact that you CAN swap them, IF YOU LEAVE A TIME PERIOD
after charging. None of that made sense. No one can seem to confirm or
deny this statement as such. I seem to be the only one confused with what
John says.

Thanks again for answering

G'Day Littleremnant
I understood what you were saying I swap my batteries that have only been charged using my SSG only. The point is you JUST can't swap 1 battery from the back to the front and keep expecting the batteries to keep going. You HAVE to leave them stand for the chemical process to take place. Over time you will see that it takes less time for your batteries to charge and a longer time for your batteries when being used to run down the point is that it takes some time for the batteries to be conditioned to radiantly charge them.
I have used batteries on my simple 3 coiler 1 trigger and 2 power wires in parallel with 10 transistors and I can charge 0ver 4 batteries from 1 battery providing I let it stand between each charge.

On Tims post he asked about the Caps on the 10 coiler Rick suggested that you use large caps across the primary battery terminals.
He did not explain why but there are posts elswhere (I just can not remember where) explaining why

Regards Kogs

[Plazma]

Cold Boiling . . . And Self Charging . . .

@Kogs;

Thanks for chiming in - what you just posted seems reasonable in the light of other statements by JB, et al about cold boiling and self charging after one shuts down the primary battery (and the wheel coasts to a stop). Some batteries 'cold boil' and their measured voltages continue to climb for quite some time. I have seen this to a degree on a couple of my 17 AHr gelmat batteries, but never swapped them back to front. It seems you have been successful in such swapping - any suggestions as to 'settling time' before swapping?

All the Best,
Plazma

PS - and it might take a frightful number of Joules to 'cold boil' a capacitor - don't sit in the front row . . .

[Littleremnant]

Thanks Plazma and all for commenting. Yea, I have been cycling batteries for
years and find the same thing. Don't have a clue what John meant by what he
said. Guess I won't find out what that statement actually meant, but I do know
that he said you can't MIX the energies. I run all of my energizers from power
supplies and inverters. Don't have a cap discharger on the place.

Yea, what IS the best time frame for RESTING batteries after they charge??
Never heard that one.

[Plazma]

Resting . . . an hour, or several hrs?

Thanks Plazma and all for commenting. Yea, I have been cycling batteries for
years and find the same thing. Don't have a clue what John meant by what he
said. Guess I won't find out what that statement actually meant, but I do know
that he said you can't MIX the energies. I run all of my energizers from power
supplies and inverters. Don't have a cap discharger on the place.

Yea, what IS the best time frame for RESTING batteries after they charge??
Never heard that one.

So far I pulse and trickle charge to take advantage of harvesting solar and let them rest at night unless I have some 'mad scientist mission' after midnight, or so. Some of that depends on what kind of foul mood I'm in and, seeing its tax time, I may pull a few (more) late nighters just to vent

Strange times . . . tortured minds . . . but its all good

Cheers,

Plazma

[Plazma]

Battery Interaction? . . .

G'Day Littleremnant
I understood what you were saying I swap my batteries that have only been charged using my SSG only. The point is you JUST can't swap 1 battery from the back to the front and keep expecting the batteries to keep going. You HAVE to leave them stand for the chemical process to take place. Over time you will see that it takes less time for your batteries to charge and a longer time for your batteries when being used to run down the point is that it takes some time for the batteries to be conditioned to radiantly charge them.
I have used batteries on my simple 3 coiler 1 trigger and 2 power wires in parallel with 10 transistors and I can charge 0ver 4 batteries from 1 battery providing I let it stand between each charge.

On Tims post he asked about the Caps on the 10 coiler Rick suggested that you use large caps across the primary battery terminals.
He did not explain why but there are posts elswhere (I just can not remember where) explaining why

Regards Kogs

Hi Kogs . . . Interesting Post . .

By 'I let it stand' do you mean 'it' as the source battery? If so, this speaks into a question I have mulled over a lot - and that is, 'What (if any) charging interaction does one get by the pathway created between the source battery and the charging battery - that is, by reference to the negative of the battery being charged being connected to the poisitive buss of the source battery that provides excitation energy to the coils of the apparatus?' If there is significant 'bleed-through' of pulses as imposed on the charging battery and these are reflected on the source battery, especially with something as potentially energetic as a 10-coiler, that might explain the issue about placing large caps across the source battery. Maybe the caps preferrentially absorb those pulses - or, maybe they are referenced as part of some scheme to switch off the source battery and recharge it while the big caps run the energizer for a few, short cycles of the machine. Its quite confusing.

As far as settling time between useages, I have seen the source battery recover some of its zip after charging one or more load batteries. The source battery can recoil back fairly quickly, recovering as much as 0.1-0.2 volts with an hour's rest. The question is, 'is this a redistribution of ions caused by the loading, a latent reaction to the feedback of charging pulses as discussed above, or a combination of the two?'

As usual, a lot more questions than answers . . .

Plazma

[Littleremnant]

Hey Plazma,

I read somewhere on the net a long time ago, that there IS something going
back to the front battery, and that is what UN-DOES the conditioning. I don't
know if it was true, but seemed to be an honest article. I once ran big caps
on my machine, but after reading that, I started running off of an isolated
power supply and inverter. It seems as though the spikes going back to the
source will kill them pretty fast. Thats why John says you can't mix the
energies. Remember John said you can't pull from a battery AND charge it
at the same time. This is why. It will just kill it (John's words).

[Bill H]

Hey Plazma,

I read somewhere on the net a long time ago, that there IS something going
back to the front battery, and that is what UN-DOES the conditioning. I don't
know if it was true, but seemed to be an honest article. I once ran big caps
on my machine, but after reading that, I started running off of an isolated
power supply and inverter. It seems as though the spikes going back to the
source will kill them pretty fast. Thats why John says you can't mix the
energies. Remember John said you can't pull from a battery AND charge it
at the same time. This is why. It will just kill it (John's words).

Yes there is a spike going back to the primary battery, I have seen it on a scope set up across a cap close to the machine.
So what if we put a diode at the primary battery positive so nothing could go back, or a switch to disconnect the primary battery at the correct time and redirect the spike. S-1 in many of John's drawing perhaps?
Back to work.
Bill H.

[Littleremnant]

Yea Bill,

I tried some big diodes on this setup, and the machine won't work with one
on it.

[Plazma]

Diode Switching Time . . . or where's my FWBR?

Yes there is a spike going back to the primary battery, I have seen it on a scope set up across a cap close to the machine.
So what if we put a diode at the primary battery positive so nothing could go back, or a switch to disconnect the primary battery at the correct time and redirect the spike. S-1 in many of John's drawing perhaps?
Back to work.
Bill H.

Hi Bill - thanks for a provocative post - and here's some more info:

There are a few posts that have recently surfaced either on the Monopole3 or maybe Monopole4 groups that touch on the 'JB S-1 switch' - and I seem to recall that the S-1 facilitates the disconnect (as you suggest) of the primary battery but at a strategic time so as to pulse charge the source battery when it is not actively charging the coils of the machine. Now those charging pulses are not, so far as I recollect, negative energy pulses - rather, transposed charge as accumulated over some time in a (gasp) capacitor.

As for using a diode to isolate the positive terminal of the supply battery, that introduces another variable or two: a) the forward drop of the diode, maybe 0.5 V + or -; and b) the diode switching time. The impact of switching time is interesting, and the concept of using a diode raises another question - 'How does a diode react to a negative energy spike, both in passing one and in blocking one?'

The spike you observed on your scope may well have been a negative energy sourced spike, but transposed in/by the capacitor you used to a form that was displayed and displayable on your scope. Of course, there is a hidden 3rd variable and that is the junction capacitance of the added diode (which affects its switching time) but might also have a big affect on a negative energy spike, too. What a puzzle, eh?

Carrying this a bit further, what relationship (if any) would adding a diode so as to 'isolate' the supply battery have in tandem with the diode coming off of the collector of the tranny, as connected back to the positive terminal of the charging battery? Do we have a half-bridge somehow in the making?
If so, what are the implications of that . . . etc

All of this needs to be carefully thought out and systematically tested. Everything interacts with everything else, to a degree, and perhaps much more subtly than the simple interactions just suggested above. But, let's keep asking and running tests -

All the Best,

Plazma