Bedini 10-coil

[Mark]

I dont understand why a few of you are jumping down Hammads throat the way you are. I see no problem with his questions. He just wanted an answer from someone who actually has the kit and knows from sure instead of speculating. I have personally built a dozen different energizers and wasn't aware that there were only 79 transistors firing not 80. I know it really doesn't matter 79, 80 or 90 for that matter. But it does matter on that one coil on how it is wound and configured. And if you read his posts you would know that he has already built smaller Bedini's.

Give the man a break, I thought we were all here to help each other, not criticize and belittle. Good luck on your build Hammad and welcome to THE forum.

Mark

[Hammad]

Thank you very much

Hello Hammad,

I am sure you and your students would learn much more from the Schoolgirl Bedini and other simple variants than from the 10 coil. When you learn, you want to learn the principle, why not building up a schoolgirl bedini, its easy, almost free and very good for learning. And the best part is you make it alone (or students).

I don't see easy learning on a 80 transistors monster. Bedini said make the schoolgirl, test it, learn from it, then make it bigger. The 10 coil machine does marvels i am sure, but for learning switching/triggering/battery charging it is much easier with a smaller machine.
You change a parameter -> it changes the results.
The 10 coiler is sure a sexy beast, but beginning from the Top wont take you higher, of course if learning is your purpose.

When every one of your students makes himself a small bedini, then can desulphate batteries with it (as a side effect), they all gonna take some power at home and learning in mind.

I guess I can give them that single coil motor as an assignment, to the students who will show interest in it.

But you know what it is not all about the students, I am interested too. The reason I was and I am interested in 10 coiler is to get cop>1 , as to my thinking, it is not possible to tune small single coiler motor to get cop>1.

But ur advice is good, to give the students the basics. thank u again

[Hammad]

Hi all

Hi every one

Has any body tried MOSFETs instead of BJTs? if so did it improve any thing?

I think IRF740 or IRFP460 (for more power) would be a good replacement, but the problem would be to tune the circuit, as there would be no significant effect of variable resistors for tuning the system. (i guess )

How is Bit's doing?

[Hammad]

I dont understand why a few of you are jumping down Hammads throat the way you are. I see no problem with his questions. He just wanted an answer from someone who actually has the kit and knows from sure instead of speculating. I have personally built a dozen different energizers and wasn't aware that there were only 79 transistors firing not 80. I know it really doesn't matter 79, 80 or 90 for that matter. But it does matter on that one coil on how it is wound and configured. And if you read his posts you would know that he has already built smaller Bedini's.

Give the man a break, I thought we were all here to help each other, not criticize and belittle. Good luck on your build Hammad and welcome to THE forum.

Mark

Thank for defending me , otherwise i was thinking to leave this forum. but i think it naturally happens to new guy like me. But thanks again.

looks line i am in now? is it folks?

[digitz]

I guess I can give them that single coil motor as an assignment, to the students who will show interest in it.

But you know what it is not all about the students, I am interested too. The reason I was and I am interested in 10 coiler is to get cop>1 , as to my thinking, it is not possible to tune small single coiler motor to get cop>1.

But ur advice is good, to give the students the basics. thank u again

You're welcomed Hammad, and please do not leave, it's a nice place here for ppl who want to evolve the world

My advice is the best i can give you.

Peace

[ren]

Hi every one

Has any body tried MOSFETs instead of BJTs? if so did it improve any thing?

I think IRF740 or IRFP460 (for more power) would be a good replacement, but the problem would be to tune the circuit, as there would be no significant effect of variable resistors for tuning the system. (i guess )

How is Bit's doing?

John has specified that the internal gate capacitance of the mosfet is undesirable in his specific configuration I think. Also to get the best out of your mosfet as you know you would most likely have to implement a driver of sorts. This tends to take the switching part of the circuit away to a digital control, somewhat complicating it more.

There is simplicity in the feedback method, where the trigger is inductively coupled 1:1 to the power winding. Ive found the further I drift away from the basic circuit, the less spectacular my results are. As you say, the tuning would have to be different, you would have to come up with your own methods here.

Some people have used mosfets with success however. If this is your area of expertise then perhaps you could try. The internal diode inherently built into nearly all mosfets needs to be considered. Its purpose is to protect the switch from transients, deliberately shorting them out, which is NOT what we want to do here It may or may not cause a complication, Im not entirely sure it will in this particular configuration.

You have to remember it is not really about power here. Besides, most of us are using 250v 16 amp transistors, and only a few of us bother to push those chips anywhere near their limits. Especially when you have 70+ paralleled, how many amps can that support The basic function of the switch in this design is to come on hard and switch off FAST and hard, something the mosfet can do really well, but can it handle that inductive discharge? Current is pretty much wasted once the coil has reached its 5th time constant, and the field has fully built up around the coil. If it hasnt been switched off by now then now is a good time. So support of high current/high power in the traditional sense isnt as desirable as you may think.

Good luck if you try mosfets, just be aware that when people assume they understand the circuit and all of its nuances, then change them to what they think works better it doesnt always work out. Sometimes these people proceed in "bashing" the concept in general, because their build never worked out. This is why people are encouraged to study and replicate the design as closely as possible without changing it, so they have something to compare it to. I had an electrical engineer visit me a while ago, and he was adamant that an all norths facing out rotor would only produce a positive pulse train, i.e, not a sine wave. Well, I had a little chuckle at his expense when he left.....

[Hammad]

Ren

Hi Ren

Yeah u r right about MOSFETs shorting out the desired the transient impulse (in bedini term it would be killing the dipole, i guess )

the ratings are

IRF740: 400volts, 10 amps

IRFP460 : 500volts 23amps

But if we want to implement MOSFETs it can be done with some modifications, they can be place in series with a diode to counter the internal free wheeling diode, and gate has the capacitance in nano-farads, so u r right it will turn on quickly and to turn them of in time, there needs to be MOSFET driver, which in this case can be a simple resistor between the source and gate(inefficient method though, here in this configuration, mosfet becomes close to BJT). Power consumption for switching MOSFETs can be fairly low, but as the power for triggering comes from the magnets passing by the trigger coil, so it will not drain the battery power, but will produce drag in the wheel, which is I think a good thing to be. because I have found that, the slower the wheel, the better the charging.

(But u r right Ren, we should keep as close to original as possible, that's one of the reasons, I asked Bit's and plasma about their motor, so i could build as close to original as possible)

The line that I have just coated above in red, has some explanation,(i know that all of u know about it), but I found some logic behind it, when i was studying the wave impulses ( those "h" waves, bedin talks about, that Scratchrobot has, as an avatar ) on my scope, that why the charging speeds up on slow speed rotor than on fast spinning rotor. I will show u the video or pictures of CRT oscilloscope with those waves and with some explanation of mine. U tell me if i am right or wrong. As we have senior members hare to share their experience.

Thanks Ren for ur reply

[Hammad]

Hi

Hi every one,

I have a question from EFTV2, see when john is demonstrating his 10 coiler, he checks the battery capacity of old circular batter bank after charging to be 96.24%, and then after puting those batteries on load and charging them again with 10 coiler, he say the batteries where charged up pretty quick, though they were only at 93.75% (< than 96.24%) but that's not the point, it is possible that if he would have charged them for more time, he could have charger those big batteries beyond 97%.

My question is, if he did not have charged those batteries with 10 coiler after discharging them (for the first time), even then the batteries would have the capacity close to 93%, because according to my experience, if u discharge the battery, and let it unloaded for a while, it regains some power (its voltage rises, and some of its capacity is regained) automatically. Do u think this is also happening in bedini's case, and he also does not show the capacity of battery after he discharges it, that from what point he raised the batteries to 93.75%.

I need clarification, do u have any? plz make it clear

[redrichie]

I see what you are saying. And you are right. He even does the same thing in a smaller set up with the vehicle head lights in a box. But with a battery bank as big as the huge circle batteries there is no telling if they function the same as smaller LA batteries. Or how long it would have taken that huge bank to "bounce" back.

[ren]

Hi Ren



because I have found that, the slower the wheel, the better the charging.
Thanks Ren for ur reply

Id be interested to hear your theories on this, as most of us find that the faster the wheel runs the better it charges, for the most part.

Regards

[digitz]

Found an interesting video of someone replicating the 10 coiler:

YouTube - Preston Stroud - Bedini 10 coiler with 6 testing - capacitors - 3 coil kit update 26-Jul-2010.MOV

[Hammad]

Hi Digitz

I have seen the video that u posted, pretty determined guy. but what is he saying about "the cost of the battery thing?", that is, as he says "if we take the cost of the primary battery into consideration, then it is not over unity", but at the same time he says , "yes I got more than what I put in"

I don't understand about the cost issue?

[redrichie]

yeah the cost quote got to me also. it doesnt cost anything to get power OUT of the system. after the initial cost of setting up system it doesnt technically cost anything does it? I would like to hear him explain how he puts more into his batteries than he takes out but doesnt get OU. Which is it.
As posted earlier. Bedini never states overunity. He just says the results are in the battery. And really I cant stand it when someone claims that something is bungus after a little testing. Especially if their technical prowess isnt up to par with the inventor that is making some kind of claim. I mean he wrapped the coils wrong. Not that I havent done dumb stuff like that, but if you did that major item wrong what else have you fudged? How many other inefficiencies does your circuit or your bearings have? You dont even have the same setup as what you are claiming to reproduce and you're out bashing someones life work. All im saying is that if your going to be so bold and state that something is not what it claims (which he is misquoting that) then at least replicate it to the fullest. It would have been cheaper to purchase Ricks really nice kit for less than what he paid for his rigs.

[ren]

yeah the cost quote got to me also. it doesnt cost anything to get power OUT of the system. after the initial cost of setting up system it doesnt technically cost anything does it? I would like to hear him explain how he puts more into his batteries than he takes out but doesnt get OU. Which is it.
As posted earlier. Bedini never states overunity. He just says the results are in the battery. And really I cant stand it when someone claims that something is bungus after a little testing. Especially if their technical prowess isnt up to par with the inventor that is making some kind of claim. I mean he wrapped the coils wrong. Not that I havent done dumb stuff like that, but if you did that major item wrong what else have you fudged? How many other inefficiencies does your circuit or your bearings have? You dont even have the same setup as what you are claiming to reproduce and you're out bashing someones life work. All im saying is that if your going to be so bold and state that something is not what it claims (which he is misquoting that) then at least replicate it to the fullest. It would have been cheaper to purchase Ricks really nice kit for less than what he paid for his rigs.

This is an ongoing problem I find with people replicating this stuff. They have in their heads a pre-concieved notion of what is occuring and what should be possible. This guy has struggled with this technology for some time now because he seems to be only focused on a perpetum mobile, or getting so called "over-unity". His "cost" is in reference to his input power from his primary bank.

When he refers to getting "out more than he put in" I think he means that he gets more measureable power out than what he "put" into the charging battery. As you are all aware an analogue gauge will meter 1/2 or less than 1/2 the input current going into the charging battery.

EG: 1 amp input from a 12vdc source can meter as 1/2 amp output to the charging battery.

So Preston has in his head that the gauge tells him the whole story and that the battery is being charged on 500ma of power, failing to realize the significance of HOW that power is applied. At the end of the run, he finds that his charging battery powers his load for longer than it should had it only received 500ma of input amperage. But still he fails to see that his meter isnt telling him the whole story.

On top of it all his running battery is now flat, and he doesnt have enough juice in his secondary battery to cycle the process indefinately, which was never said anyway. People seem to really hang on this idea, without really bothering to investigate the circuits anomolies. In his head he is putting power into the circuit and less is coming out the other end. He still sees the two forms as being one.

Battery charging has never been an efficient process. Id like to see someone figure out exactly how much power is required from a CONVENTIONAL current charger to charge a flat battery, and then how much is required from the SG circuit, not bothering to take into account the additional work done by the rotor.

Regards

[albertMunich]

Hi Preston,
I know how you feel because I have been thru this too. I started with the ole bike wheel and built from there.
My own machines may not be OU but I have learned a great deal building them. They can recover totally useless batteries-in fact my scrap heap batts work better now than the ones I bought brand new. The picture may change when you hook up recovery coils to your unfinished 10 coil machine. Perhaps you should try and use the free spaces on your machine for this and not install more drive coils. Look a little further up on this thread to see my machines powering rows and rows of LED lights.
I have seen the Rick Friedrich machine work on big 16oo aH battery banks and those seemed to charge extremely well. Much faster than normal- perhaps the machines need to be of a certain size AND the batt banks too.The batts were scrapped ones too but of a better build than the ordinary garden variety starter batts. Emergency power batteries...
It all depends on what you want to do with the final machine. As it is it is a learning tool- and probably the least dangerous of all the things they try to get to grips with Teslas longitudinal waves. The KAPAGEN generators and other high voltage toys are really dangerous stuff.
The difficult part is measurements - has always been . If we cannot eliminate the two batteries and make this stuff run off capacitors or in self looped mode the questions might remain.
I'd like to hear more from Bits and Plazmas work- where are you at the moment? We need to exchange results if the field is to go any further!