COP 17 Heater | Rosemary Ainslie

[gotoluc]

No problem Glen

I'll be on standby till it's sorted.

Luc

[FuzzyTomCat]

Thanks for the details Glen. It looks like they don't have that one anymore.

Do you know if this resistor plays a part in getting the circuit to do what it does? It maybe interesting to see if it changes anything if you bypass it.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks

Luc

Hi Luc,

I do know there is some hoopla right now on the material being used on this shunt .... thats why I originally picked up the 3% wire wound type to avoid any of these problems.

At the present time I am lacking proper instruments to look into this further but hopefully this will be resolved shortly ....

So best guess .... don't really know until more testing if actually needed and is done by me ....

Glen

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc,

I used a wire wound resistor a "Dale" RS-2B .25 ohm 3 watt 3 %

http://www.diyparadiso.com/componenten%20passief/dale%20rs5.pdf

Purchased From -
Surplus Sales of Nebraska
Wire Wound Resistors - 0 Ohm to 0.499 Ohm

A Great Surplus Electronics Supplier

Glen

Thanks for the details Glen. It looks like they don't have that one anymore.

Do you know if this resistor plays a part in getting the circuit to do what it does? It maybe interesting to see if it changes anything if you bypass it.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks

Luc

[jibbguy]

...Might be good for a "baseline" tho.

[Aaron]

his own thing

Glen,

Should any of us have expected different? lol

Glad he is actually posting experiments.

It is recorded in plain sight that his circuit
is him doing his own thing instead of Rosemary's
circuit.

[sucahyo]

So, as far as your circuit goes, if the output impedance is high enough and the current is low enough, the spikes will be dropped across that impedance and the battery will charge to its desired value. Don't try this with LiPo's .

Thanks for the answer . Currently have 400mA when charging two nicad, voltage is measured 0.1V above battery voltage with input current at about 2Amp at 10V. Since the battery and almost all component stay cold, I have a feeling that the frequency my circuit run is something that should be avoided for Rosemary replication.

[FuzzyTomCat]

Poynt99 - Ainsle Circuit Test Replication ????

Hi everyone,

As members and guests that have been following this thread my testing has been 100% up front with about 80 images and data collections posted on testing a actual replication of the Rosemary Ainslie COP>17 Heater Circuit and have went to extreme measures to do a complete replication as possible prior to "ANY" testing or evaluation of the circuit.

It has been brought to my attention that another member here Poynt99 is also doing testing and has published a PDF of "what and how" he is doing this replication and testing of the replication that everyone should be aware of ......


Ainslie Circuit Test Plan - Poynt99_02






As you can plainly see this is no replication of the Rosemary Ainslie COP>17 Heater Circuit ....

1) No battery's .... missing (1) 12V "Gel" lead acid Battery , (2) 12V 12ah "liquid" lead acid battery's
2) The load resistor directly mounted above PCB which will induce unwanted frequency's or magnetic fields which the effects are being induced into the circuit this can be easily checked with standard compass or iron shavings
3) A scope probe actually going over the "TOP" opening of the load resistor
4) A dual power supply being used with the very high possibility of ground loops effecting all the data readings and also what appears to be a capacitor bank in line with the lab power supply
5) The wave form on the oscilloscope in the background does not have in any way the wave form I have posted numerous times with a Tektronix TDS 3054C and a 20 year old Tektronix 2445A oscilloscope.

6) WHAT ELSE !!!

Anyone wanting to comment on this please do ..... this is not right ..... and not a actual replication at all .....

Glen
************************************************** ******
EDIT - this is what else .....

7) SEE Figure 1 - DUT Circuit & Figure 2 - CONTROL Circuit ..... actual earth grounding of the circuit ?????

[Harvey]

guys - this may help for reference

F C watts
33.50 0.83 2.40
36.20 2.33 2.60
40.10 4.50 2.81
42.20 5.66 3.02
44.40 6.88 3.25
46.20 7.88 3.48*
48.10 8.94 3.72
51.20 10.66 3.97
54.10 12.27 4.22
56.90 13.83 4.49
59.90 15.50 4.76
62.80 17.11 5.04
64.70 18.16 5.33
67.30 19.61 5.62
71.10 21.72 5.93
73.00 22.77 6.24
78.00 25.55 6.56
80.10 26.72 6.89
82.10 27.83 7.22*
84.50 29.16 7.57
89.40 31.88 7.92


239.20 120.66 41.00

(please just check out the data against the two asterixed. Not sure that I read the primary right)
And sorry it crowds one line. Can't seem to get the spacing into the post.
Fuzzy - please check that I've done this right. Focus is never that good.

Thank you Rosemary,
But hard for me to read... so...hope you don't mind:

[SIZE="3"][B]F	C 	Watts
33.50	0.83	2.40
36.20	2.33	2.60
40.10	4.50	2.81
42.20	5.66	3.02
44.40	6.88	3.25
46.20	7.88	3.48
48.10	8.94	3.72
51.20	10.66	3.97
54.10	12.27	4.22
56.90	13.83	4.49
59.90	15.50	4.76
62.80	17.11	5.04
64.70	18.16	5.33
67.30	19.61 	5.62
71.10	21.72 	5.93
73.00	22.77 	6.24
78.00	25.55	6.56
80.10	26.72	6.89
82.10	27.83	7.22
84.50	29.16	7.57
89.40	31.88	7.92

323.00	161.66 	41.00[/B][/SIZE]

[Harvey]

Sucahyo,

I used to have an old RS NiCad charger. I opened it up to see how they did their circuit. Inside there were two components, a low current (microamp) lamp and a diode. This was connected directly to the AC line cord. !! At, any rate, it would have 120V+ when no batteries were in there. But when the batteries were installed it would drop all the voltage across that lamp.

So, as far as your circuit goes, if the output impedance is high enough and the current is low enough, the spikes will be dropped across that impedance and the battery will charge to its desired value. Don't try this with LiPo's .

[sucahyo]

I was very concerned just having a 12 volt 12 ah battery getting 70 to 100 volt spike pulses .... ever seen a battery blow up ???

What I did in this video is dangerous or not? It is the output of radiant current. And I recall Aaron mention 400V is normal output of radiant oscillator? I charge two nicad and a 12V 7Ah battery with oscillator measuring 350V without load.

YouTube - Self voltage adjusting of radiant oscillator

Sorry for off topic question.

I did have trouble with the 555 timer as per the suggestion of adding some 4K ohms worth of resistance in series between the +12v and the power input (+) of the 555 timer. The 555 timer would not work unless the resistance was set to at or near zero (so full power was reaching the 555). I used a 25 turn 5K ohm variable resistor. The 555 chip gets really hot (see above).

I think adding second transistor like I mention previously would also move the heat from the 555 to second transistor. Since it is now become the job of second transistor to supply as much current as possible to the FET.

[ashtweth]

Hi Glen/Harvey/Rosie/Aaron /ALL. Well time for some Action then Luc . Glen it really has helped replicators my friend. Okay we finished a few tests and built your resistor. Went with Luc's/Alex's board lay out MAKES A DIFFERENCE, Also Glens rating inductor makes a difference got better performance 37 volts back spikes Still working through it guys, want to make sure we get what glen is doing and then can start the run time tests. Okay bare with us, here is Andrew's report.

Hey all,

I've been doing some more tests on the Ainslie circuit (negative dominant August 26 2009) and done a replication of Glen's / Quantum 10 ohm resistor (32mm diameter, 48 turns spaced 1mm, 150mm long). I used resistance wire of 6 ohms per meter (3 x 5m lengths of 30 ohms in parallel = 10 ohms).
<Glen's resistor replication - windings.jpg>
Imageshack - glensresistorreplicatioy
<Glen's resistor replication.jpg>
Imageshack - glensresistorreplicatio

I changed the series gate resistance to 5.5 ohms and tried out the insertion of ferrite rods into the test resistors (the green one bought off the shelf, and Glen's).
<resistor with ferrite rod.jpg>
Imageshack - resistorwithferriterod

Sure enough, the back spikes collected off the resistor / inductors improved - I then tuned the 555 timer and the resistor tests improved again. Our replication of Glen's resistor performed better than the green one bought off the shelf.

I re oriented the mosfet so it was less likely to pick up any stray RF energy. Should I put a resistor across the gate and (source) input negative to eliminate the RF energy if there is still any left over?
<mosfet re oriented.jpg>
Imageshack - mosfetreoriented

I used two 12v lead acid batteries to power the circuit.

Results (in the order of the tests conducted):
Test 1:
Input - 24.6v, 900mA
Output - 38v across 470 ohm resistor / 4700uF 50v capacitor

Test 2:
Input - 24.4v, 1050mA
Output - 28v across 235 ohm resistor (2 x 470 ohm) / 4700uF 50v capacitor

Test 3:
Input - 24.5v, 750mA (18.375 watts of power)
Output - 37v across 235 ohm resistor (2 x 470 ohm) / 4700uF 50v capacitor (5.8 watts of power)

Temperature readings (final test):
Ambient - 26C / 80F
Mosfet - 53C / 128F
10 ohm resistor - 53C / 128F (this may be the reading because the heat has radiated out over a bigger surface area being the black silicone?)
555 timer - 68C / 155F
235 ohm 20W resistor - 105C / 222F

I did have trouble with the 555 timer as per the suggestion of adding some 4K ohms worth of resistance in series between the +12v and the power input (+) of the 555 timer. The 555 timer would not work unless the resistance was set to at or near zero (so full power was reaching the 555). I used a 25 turn 5K ohm variable resistor. The 555 chip gets really hot (see above).

Andrew

[FuzzyTomCat]

Thanks for the help Glen

I forgot to ask you about the .25 Ohm shunt resistor. Do you think it matters what it's made of? like wire wound or carbon?

I think Aaron posted the models he used but I can't find it in all the posts now.

Anyways, if you or anyone else think it's important please let me know.

Luc

Hi Luc,

I used a wire wound resistor a "Dale" RS-2B .25 ohm 3 watt 3 %

http://www.diyparadiso.com/componenten%20passief/dale%20rs5.pdf

Purchased From -
Surplus Sales of Nebraska
Wire Wound Resistors - 0 Ohm to 0.499 Ohm

A Great Surplus Electronics Supplier

Glen

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc,

I'm checking with my son, he's the glass blower and I think he has some in stock but is doing xmas ornaments right now that uses different sizes of tubing I'll see what I can do and PM you, ASAP !!!

Glen

Thanks for the help Glen

I forgot to ask you about the .25 Ohm shunt resistor. Do you think it matters what it's made of? like wire wound or carbon?

I think Aaron posted the models he used but I can't find it in all the posts now.

Anyways, if you or anyone else think it's important please let me know.

Luc

[gotoluc]

Thanks for your vote of confidence Rosemary

I'll give it my best shot replication wise but I only have simple measuring techniques and equipment available. However, if I get anything like Glen is, then it should be a no brainer for me

It can take up to 2 weeks to receive the components I ordered on eBay since I paid by e-check and takes about one week to clear, then shipping time.

Looking forward to it.

BTW, why is the topic so quite now would you not think there would be more interest with these new results???

Luc

[witsend]

LUC - so chuffed you're doing a replication here. Much appreciated. Couldn't be in more capable hands.