3 Battery Generating System

[bistander]

Single battery circuit results

Has ANYONE built the single battery circuit we posted and compared run times to just running the motor straight off the battery?

With system = 3 hours.

Straight from battery = 54.6 hours.

Just one test on one system. Not to be considered conclusive. Disappointed not to see anybody else running this test.

bi

[bistander]

Your data


Just looking at the data that you collected doesn't tell you anything about what is possible, or even exactly what is GOING ON with this system. That's why I asked for your opinion. All you really did was measure what is coming out of the two boost modules. ...

You just looked at the converter efficiency test I did to show Matt. Go a bit further and see two system tests. Both using battery power as input and load resistor power as output.

Here are data from most recent test.

Wattmeter on battery:
12.05V, 3.4A, 40.97W, 9.09Ah, 111.21Wh

Wattmeter on 50Ω load resistor:
18.31V, 0.33A, 6.1W, 0.885Ah, 15.3Wh



Regards,

bi

I ran that system for 3 hours. That took 333 watt hours from the battery. If I would have run a 6.1 watt load directly from the battery, it would have run for 54.6 hours.

And with a converter between the battery and motor, those pulses are blocked.

What's your opinion of the real data?

bi

[Turion]

Thoughts

Your data

Boost module 1
Input 12.11V, 5.27A, 63.8W
Output 27.67V, 1.99A, 55.06W, 86.3% efficient.

Boost Module 2
Input 12.4V, 1.28A, 15.7W
Output 14.13V, 1.01A, 14.27W, 90.9% efficient.

bi

Just looking at the data that you collected doesn't tell you anything about what is possible, or even exactly what is GOING ON with this system. That's why I asked for your opinion. All you really did was measure what is coming out of the two boost modules. As to the data, I think it's probably pretty close to what I would expect. I am usually getting close to 93% with my boost modules. I have some expensive ones that push that number up several % points, but that isn't important. With the little ones I put a couple in parallel so I get a LITTLE bit better efficiency, but like I said, that's not critical.

The only way to tell if you really HAVE something with this system is to run your modified motor connected to a load directly off the battery until it is run down, and then charge the battery back up and run it on this system. See which one lasts longer.

When I run this setup, I have a second motor shaft connected to the first, rectify the output of the second motor (as a generator) and measure watts out to a load. That's how I calculate which system gives me MORE output from the run time of a single battery.

All this simple circuit was designed to do was prove, with A SINGLE BATTERY that the energy does not HAVE to be consumed by the load. It CAN be reused. Now this little system is just proof of concept.

You will notice that boost module 1 is running in a conventional manner, which WASTES energy, but it is necessary for the purposes of this demonstration. Normally, I would NEVER run anything this way as it is so wasteful. I will also say that if you do not use the modified motor, the setup will NOT work, because the modified motor pulses the battery like a battery charger does. There is a pulsed input going into the second boost module, so there is a pulsed output coming out of it, even though the boost module itself pulses, it is at the wrong frequency, so the correct motor is necessary.

That's all this system was designed to do, give you a longer run time. Other systems are designed to do much more than that, but ya gotta start somewhere.

[bistander]

Test results

So bi,
What is your honest evaluation of the potential of that circuit from the data you collected and do you see a way to move forward to get more out of it or scale it up?

What we see on the bench, good or bad, should influence the direction we take, so I am curious what direction you would go with this, based on what YOU have seen, not what I have seen.

What, if anything was positive about it and what was negative?

Turion,

I was attempting to be objective and completely unbiased so I just presented the data. With that it is easy for anyone to calculate system efficiency and draw their own conclusions, or suggest further investigation, which I would have, could still do, although the set-up has been torn down. At the time I did inquire of you what your results were, what the objective of the system was and what to do further. But you know how that discussion went.

I still feel it is in the best interest if I keep my opinions to myself and let the data stand. What do you think of my results (system efficiency)?

bi

[voltan]

Cheers Dave. Page 130.

[Turion]

Data

So bi,
What is your honest evaluation of the potential of that circuit from the data you collected and do you see a way to move forward to get more out of it or scale it up?

What we see on the bench, good or bad, should influence the direction we take, so I am curious what direction you would go with this, based on what YOU have seen, not what I have seen.

What, if anything was positive about it and what was negative?

[bistander]

Single battery system

Has ANYONE built the single battery circuit we posted and compared run times to just running the motor straight off the battery?

I did. Posted data.

bi

[bistander]

Single battery system

If you have the stuff, give this a shot. It's as CHEAP as you will get.

Post #3883, 7/13/2018

[voltan]

Hi Dave. I’d be keen to have a go at that. It’s multiple battery banks that make Tesla switch/3bgs systems impractical for electric cars, bikes, planes etc.
Can you post the page number or date or if it was fairly recent I’m happy to look for it. I was thinking about using caps with a brushless ac motor like in the pic recently. Switches 1 and 2 close, the motor coil is energised for one stroke, then 1and 2 open. 3 and 4 close, energising the motor coil for one stroke with the current reversed. 3 stays closed, 4 opens and 1 closes with a brief overlap to recharge the source battery. 3 opens, 1 stays closed, 2 closes and repeat. The diodes are the built in to most semiconductors ones or maybe add speedy diodes like fr302’s across the switches. They direct the switch off spikes to one cap at at a time provided the right switch opens first. maybe a booster could play a part as well. I haven’t checked it all over yet For flaws or conflicts. It’s a concept in its infancy. Okay, for a start it looks like the diodes on 1 and 3 would have to be blocked with additional diodes or some other way. And without a booster this still needs 24v to drive a12v motor, so no bulk weight saving over a 2bgs. For a mobile application a booster or 2 would be the big weight saver.
Cheers.

[Turion]

Single battery circuit

Has ANYONE built the single battery circuit we posted and compared run times to just running the motor straight off the battery?

[wantomake]

Looks interesting

I've received the switching board and have a design for setting up the relay's in the 3 bgs configuration.

The unboxing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oyQt3uMv9k

Congratulations,
It's a good thing to get new tech in the mail. Can't wait to see your build and the switching by the relay board.

So you will be using the 3BGS configuration? Hope all testing goes well, keep us informed if possible.

wantomake
Coffee needs nuked.

[Majestic81]

Geoffrey,
Looks very interesting and should be more interested in this it would seem.

Just drinking some hot coffee while reading your website. Many thoughts and questions indeed. Thanks for posting here.

I want to get restarted here but stopped to evaluate which way to proceed. I stopped building this pass summer on the upright generator. Want to learn more about battery switching technology and the benefits.

Anyhow time to refresh the coffee and get breakfast on the stove,
wantomake

I've received the switching board and have a design for setting up the relay's in the 3 bgs configuration.

The unboxing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oyQt3uMv9k

[wantomake]

Looks interesting

Hi To ALL

My name is Geoffrey Miller I have a lab called Energybat Labs, see link below
I have followed you Dave & Matt from the being Great work !!!.

The people the don't understand the tec shown on this website have not built anything.

Energy Bat

I have a new product that you guys might like, it is a BATTERY SWITCHING BOARD.

This circuit board was designed by Energy Batlabs & Magnetic Impulse Tech Group LLC to allow for the switching of battery banks in your DIY energy project. This board provides the logic to be used with relays which will allow you to charge one battery bank while utilizing another during continuous operation.

Please go to my website for all the info. See pic below

Have fun

Geoffrey at EBL

Geoffrey,
Looks very interesting and should be more interested in this it would seem.

Just drinking some hot coffee while reading your website. Many thoughts and questions indeed. Thanks for posting here.

I want to get restarted here but stopped to evaluate which way to proceed. I stopped building this pass summer on the upright generator. Want to learn more about battery switching technology and the benefits.

Anyhow time to refresh the coffee and get breakfast on the stove,
wantomake

[Turion]

Reminder

Voltan,
Thanks for the reminder. I knew the term, and had that info in my head, but REMEMBERING it and applying it are two different things.

I thought I might be back here in a month or so, but the world keeps throwing hardballs at me. By the time I can get back to show anyone anything, Matt will probably be done with his project and all of the controversy here will be moot. Such is life.

[voltan]

Hi all. I don’t know if this is old news/common knowledge, but thought I should mention something new to me in case it isn’t. It turns out that the acid component is heavier than the water in LA battery electrolyte and precipitates to the bottom over time in stationary and infrequently charged battery systems. In a vehicle that sees regular use it gets sloshed around and stays relatively evenly mixed. Also the bubbles generated by charging help to mix the electrolyte and keeping these batteries charged helps as well.
Regarding Tesla switch and 3 bgs systems i was thinking it would be beneficial to sit a battery on something like a rolling pin or caulking gun tube lengthways and rock the battery back and forth with a bit of vigour periodically and before experimenting.
If it’s mostly water in the top half of the solution there’s reduced electrochemical activity,(power), and increased upper plate corrosion with the top half of the plates and increased risk of sulfation in the bottom half.
Apologies if you guys are fully aware of this already. And car manufacturers refer to it as acid stratification for reference.
Cheers.