3 Battery Generating System

[plengo]

@All,

watch this video (Tesla Radiant Energy - YouTube) and think of if as an related circuit just like this 3 battery system where our third bad battery is the horizontal bar above the 2 vertical bars that conduct the energy and still we can extract more energy from the vertical bar.

Fausto.

[FRC]

I posted this on thw Alum tread

Neight

I have not watched the video yet but am very interested in your results with
the bad alum battery. I have an alum battery that did not recover and would not work as a bad battery. I was thinking to try putting a bit of battery acid
back into it to see if that would make it work as a bad battery. Do not know
if it will work. Any information from your trial will be very helpful.

George

[Turion]

Neight,
Were you able to balance the load on your motor with the load on battery three? Until you do that, you will draw juice out of batteries one and two. They will recover up to a point, but if you want to max out the capability of your little motor, you are going to have to figure out a way to add loads to it. A fan blade, spinning another motor...something! And then add loads to battery three to get that second step up in power that puts the motor in the zone. The zone is where it's at.

Can't wait to see if your batteries recover. This is an interesting possibility for battery three.

Fausto, thanks for the link! Good stuff, and I know I saw something similar to this before, but I need to be reminded all the time.
Dave

[Neight]

Hey guys, got a bit more info on this now.
Battery one made a quick and full recovery, though I didn't really run this setup for more than an hour at a time, at most.
battery 2 did lose about 10mV, though I think that might have been near the end of the testing today, when the motor burned out finally.
My alum battery is holding steady at 1V, which hasn't changed since starting the tests. No matter what, it will settle unloaded at 1V, even if I drain it, it will recover to 1V, which seems to be where this one likes to be.

When I was using the ignition coil, I saw as much as 9.5V on the meter that was reading bat3 voltage. With a modern ignition coil, I could make the fluorescent light blink and sort of glow. With one of the model T ignition coils I have, I could get the light to come on, and the vibrator switch on top would start to run on it's own, which takes at least 3V @ 1.5A from previous testing.
The 4W fluorescent tube (which is burned out, not sure if that makes a difference on an ignition coil) would light nicely though not full bright at all.

I have a rotor with some magnets on it, that I am pretty sure I can hook up to the motor drive shaft (when I get to replace the motor) and I plan to fix over some gen coils, and see what kind of power output I can generate, and how that effects the load on the motor. Before I test the genny, I am going to try some basic load testing, to see how much drag I need on the motor to find the "zone"

most loads I put on bat3 only made the motor speed up. the only time I got drag on the motor was in the video, with the bigger size fan and the 10mm LED, no pc fan. With the PC fan on the system, I can only get the motor to speed up. I am going to build a rig for this motor while I wait to get another, and hope to have something working by next week at the latest.

As far as the alum battery I used, it is incredibly simple to make, and so far has performed above my expectations with this system.
I mixed 10 parts heated sterile water (though tap water works just as well from what I can tell) to one part alum (the kind you can get at walmart in the spices). the solution was only heated to dissolve the alum in the water faster. there are two aluminum plates and two copper plates (A-C-A-C) hooked in parallel, copper to copper, Aluminum to aluminum. Copper is pos, and the aluminum is neg. In this particular battery, I have some cardboard between plater layers, and it's all wrapped with electrical tape, to keep it stable while I hook up the alligator clips. I soaked the whole thing in the alum water pretty well before testing, so it had water all through the cardboard. It definitely consumes water, as the water level dropped a significant level over the testing period, more than evaporation can account for.
That is as much detail as I have to give at this point. I haven't tried this with any other alum cells, to see if it can work with others, though I have two more I can try it with, and report my results on.

If this works in the battery 3 position, and never charges more than 1V, this could be viable to replace bat 3 more permanently. You would just have to keep alum solution in the battery, so it keeps working at the same rate.
Even if it does carry a charge, and has to be replaced for some reason, they are quick and easy to make.
I am also thinking of trying a bigger alum battery on this, and see if the load I can drive through the motor gets bigger with the cell size.
Lots of ideas to try with this, and I will make sure to keep things updated as I find anything new
Hope to see both batteries recover fully next time, and will also be working harder on finding the zone load. Today was more about seeing if it worked, and my next set of tests will be more thorough.
With a little luck, this may be a nice stepping stone to making this a viable genny system all on it's own.
Another idea I have, is to take a couple of 12V LABs and converting them to alum bats, use those in positions 1 and 2, and then use the power output from the genny on the motor to charge those batteries and see if the power can move through them, and not out of them at all! The alum batteries seem to handle drain and charging better than LAB, as shown in the videos John Bedini posted on them the other day. If they will charge and run at the same time, without breaking down like LABs do, this could be a "turn it on and leave it" kind of power system Just match the motor size and load to the load you want to run through battery 3 and let it run...
May be a bit too early to talk like that, but I am really excited over the results I have so far, and I like to be optimistic
Hope that all makes sense, and helps!

N8

[Turion]

Neight,
That sounds really promising. I have been working for almost a week on an 80 coil energizer to run as a load on my motor. Have a little welding left to do tomorrow, and then coils to wind, so it will probably be a couple weeks before I have it up and running, and may have to just hook up a second 12 volt motor as generator until the energizer is ready. I have found that the best way to tune the loads to each other is to get the load on the motor first, and then add small loads to battery three until they match up. If you get to the point where you are pulling at least 12 volts out of battery three and still haven't gotten the motor to zone out, that's a GOOD thing, because it means you can run an inverter off battery three. I want to run a big motor with a big load, so I can pull a big load off battery three.

It's really interesting when you have a DC brushed motor like I have that runs on 12-110 volts. I hook it to one battery and measure the RPM's. Then I hook it to two batteries and measure the RPM's. Then I start adding loads to battery three and watch the RPM's continue to climb and that's when my friend, the electrical engineer, gets really interested in what's going on here. Where does that extra power come from that speeds up the motor past what the two batteries can do?

I may have mentioned it before here, but I have been wondering about nose coupling a second motor to use as a generator, and then hooking battery three AND the output of the motor as generator to the same load, whether that is an inverter or whatever. I don't know if they would be balanced, but then possibly putting something in the line from battery three to alter how much of the load it supplies. Just ideas.

I appreciate you posting your findings on the alum battery, and can't wait to hear what happens when you try another motor. I'll be trying an alum battery myself as soon as I get a chance. I have a whole roll of aluminum flashing, and a whole roll of copper flashing that has paper backing on it. So I'll be adding alum to the grocery list and seeing what I can come up with.

I wish Peter L. or John B. would comment here. Maybe they would tell me I'm nuts, but at least we would have the benefit of their experience with this stuff. I've been told I'm nuts already, so it wouldn't be the first time.

Dave

[fathershand]

The Perfect Battery 3

I have been reading this thread and doing some of the test suggested here. Here is my setup and a result.

I have 2 heavy truck batteries at around 12.4V each.
A radiator fan motor from the junk heap at my friend's repair garage
A bad 6V golf cart deep cycle battery with 1.9V resting voltage. I have tried many times to restore this battery using SSG and standard charger.

My observations:
When I connect the batteries and motor as prescribed, the motor does not turn and the voltage on the "bad battery" is at 19 to 22V. I wait and nothing happens. When I connect a load to the battery, the motor starts and the voltage slowly drops on that battery.

I have dead cells in the bad battery. When I take the lead going the positive to the load and connect it to a steel bolt and then touch it to the positive plate, I get these voltage: 15.5V and the load comes on;
Next I put the bolt into the first cell with the cap removed and the load comes on with 10.5V.
And finally I put the bolt into the 2nd cell with he cap removed, I get 1.5V and the load does not come on.
I didn't try the final cell.

BTW, my load is another 12V fan on a motorcycle radiator.

Is this what I should expect? Have I gotten into the zone?

Also one other thing. Someone posted a link earlier about a group in S. Africa who has made a device similar to this. Somebody said that they were using a circuit controller that included a tesla switch. Has anyone tried putting that tesla switch into this equation?

Keep on going with this guys!!

[Turion]

fathershand,
If the motor never comes on without connecting the load on battery three, you don't have a battery in the third position that will work. Did you wait 15 minutes to see if it would come on so you know for sure? When you connect the load directly to battery three, you bypass the battery and give the current a path to a complete circuit, which is why the motor comes on when you connect the load.

So sorry, but you need a different battery in the third position. But you MIGHT try connecting the bad battery you already have in parallel with another bad one. It can't hurt. Once you have a battery that will NOT allow the system to come on when you first connect it up, but WILL let the motor start up within 15 minutes, THEN and ONLY THEN, attach a load to battery three. These are the instructions I gave in my first post, which I have learned nobody ever reads. LOL.

When you hook a load to battery three the motor should speed up. WAIT five minutes and see if it speeds up AGAIN, ON ITS OWN, without you doing anything else. When it does THIS, you are in the zone. You may have to keep adding small loads to get it to do this, OR the very first load you added might have been too big. No way for me to tell. But wait five minutes after adding each load. You should get an initial speed up of the motor, and then a second speed up of the motor a few minutes later. It should only take about three minutes but I say five just to be safe.

If you can't ever get it to do this, you need to put SOME kind of a load on the motor, and start the process all over again. Once you have seen it happen, you will understand, and from then on, it will be easy to do. Painfully slow, but simple none the less. Add a load, wait, add a load, wait. It gets old. But if you get as excited about this stuff as I do, you probably don't care.

As to the Tesla switch and the South African device. If you get this thing working like it is supposed to with the correct bad battery in the third position, and you keep a load on battery three so it cannot charge. Keep adding loads to the motor and balancing those with loads on battery three so you stay in the zone. Watch what happens to the voltages in your two primary batteries. Then tell me why you would want to use a Tesla switch? I can see running the current that is used in this system through three wire transformers to produce additional power, but the purpose of the Tesla switch is to keep the batteries charged. If the motor is hooked to a generator producing power, you hook a generator to battery three producing power, and you have a transformer in line producing power, and the voltages on your primary batteries stay level, do you really NEED a Tesla switch? Can this system deliver all that? We're definitely working on it! That's why I'm building an 80 coil energizer. So I will have a significant load for my motor to balance against what I hook to battery three.

Dave

[fathershand]

Maybe This is THE battery

Thanks, Dave for your quick reply. I understand what you are saying.

I have something new to report. Maybe you can explain it.

I got a different electric motor. This one is a 1/4HP GE 95V DC brushed motor. I did a quick test. My batteries 1 and 2 were being charge by a regular charger because I think my SSG charger transistor is blown, AGAIN. I hooked up the new motor to the dead battery and it started to turning over the motor!! I measured the voltage across the dead battery. It was 9.5V. Before the test it was 1.9V. I hooked up my load to the dead battery and since it is a 12V motor, it didn't start spinning. So, I put a load on the new motor and the bad battery load motor started to spin. The voltage across that dead battery started to approach 0V.

I am gonna let my batteries 1 and 2 charge up fully and give it a go in the morning.

My conclusion is that the motor makes a difference. The other motor was an electric fan. This new one is a real motor. It even had a pulley already on it.

Keep up the good work!!
Tony

[Turion]

fathershand,
The motor will definitely make a difference BUT in all probability you "fixed" your bad battery (to some extent) with just that short run you did before. I have had that happen on several occasions. This setup does amazing things to bad batteries. So it probably wasn't the motor. The way to know for sure is to try the motor you used the first time. If the system starts up, you know it was the battery. If it doesn't, it was the different motor.

The battery in the third position makes a difference.
Whether you have #6 or larger wire connecting your batteries to each other matters.
Whether the loads are balanced matters.

If you load down the motor, you can add loads to battery three. That's really everything you need to know. Get it into the zone and keep it there, and continue to add loads to the motor and battery three, and keep an eye on your two primary batteries. Don't worry about battery three, except that it has to be a battery that will cause the motor to run without a load and should be as low voltage as possible. Keep that voltage low by adding loads to it.

Dave

[Bizzy]

Hi Turion
George suggested that I take a closer look at your thread while I am working on my machine. Very impressive work

I haven't finished reading the whole thread, but I have one question, do you have a schematic of your circuit?
Thanks
Bizzy

[citfta]

Hi Bizzy,

In post 169 of this thread I give step by step instructions on how to hook this circuit up. In post 181 there is a block diagram of how it is hooked up. Hope this helps.

Carroll

[FRC]

Another way to find the Zone

Maybe this has been covered already about finding the zone, but here goes:
Another way to find the right zone would be have a motor as the electrical
load and adjust the mechanical load on the motor in this position to find the
zone. Mechanical load adjustments could be made to both motors until optimum
efficiency is found. This would be good to do if the purpose is to generate
electricity with generators. Have a generator on both motors with proper
adjustments tuned to the correct zone. I have been playing with this on my
latest run.

George

[Bizzy]

Hi Bizzy,

In post 169 of this thread I give step by step instructions on how to hook this circuit up. In post 181 there is a block diagram of how it is hooked up. Hope this helps.

Carroll

Hi Carroll
As always you are a tremnedous help
Thanks
Bizzy

[Turion]

Hey Bizzy,
Great to see you here. I have also added a basic schematic to the bottom of post 1, just to make it less confusing for new folks. In post 1
following the word "CAUTION" there is also a step by step process for starting this thing up the first time, and it DOES make a difference how you start it up the first time, because there is only ONE first time after all. To see everything I talk about, you have to follow those steps. Not that everything I talk about there is important, but I just want folks to have all the info I have. Once you have started it and run it, it develops what I think of as a magnetic memory, and will not do some of the things it did the first time unless you shut it down and let it just set for a few days.

George,
That is what I want to do...run a generator or energizer off the motor shaft, and connect a motor (with generator or energizer attached) to battery three, and balance them. With energizers you add and subtract coils to cause more or less drag on the two motors to get them into balance, so it's easier than using two generators. Run the outputs of both to something (a battery bank??) and pull from that to power my house. Your loads in a home go up and down depending on what is running, so trying to balance that with anything would be a nightmare. It makes more sense to dump the combined input from both balanced sides into the same storage and pull power from that.

Dave

[Stealth]

I haven't built one with LAB yet, but when I do, I would like to use variable resistors on each motor to control how much current they get and to fine adjust to get into the zone. Using a potentiometer I can find the exact postion, with experimentation of course, that causes the motors to gain RPM's. On a DC motor it is easy to vary the RPM;s by varying the current. Also we can use two motors of the same kind and use one as a generator. Good Luck. stealth