My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy

[prochiro]

Circuit

JohnStone & UFO
This circuit looks good for the the new four poster and with just a few changes also for the prime mover. The manual pot is just a three wire plug in at Positive/negative/A0. Amps/temp/rpm can be added just as easily. It can be configures for auto start and stop procedures also. The secret in keeping frequency accurate is by making the frequency loop small and updating analog data maybe every second. This is exciting.
Dana

[Cornboy 555]

Yep.

Hello MR. John Stone!!


Nice, very nice, excellent!

We could always have the option to be able to control Frequency and Dead Times through our PC/Software programming...However, a Manual Pot should be there also to do Lab Practice without PC...As it will allow for other Applications like a Vehicle where Pot will be the Throttle/Accelerator...
Now the Current measurements Arduino Microprocessor would do...would be the one handled at Gates...but not at Drains right?

Display will be great, whenever not having PC nearby...

Dealing with this kind of Technology, so flexible, and Open Source... will takes Us all very FAR...to Horizons We have never dreamed off before...seriously...

So... We are waiting on Nico...to give the last final brushing......Then We will make a complete Diagram with Parts spec's and mounting Circuit Lay out ...sounds great.

I see it has several other PWM Programmable Ports (D2 through D13)...like when we get to Mag Three......So Cornboy555...read this and get ready!!


Thanks John Stone, Lester and Nico!


Regards


Ufopolitics

I'm here, and i'm readin, UFO, thanks to John, Lester, Nico, Dana, etc for great input on this side of things.

All The Best Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Excellent MR John Stone!!

Ufo requested for his current setup a four phase oscillator.
Post
Post
I threw some components into the circuit and ask for discussion. It is what I intend to build.

The reason for using a microprocessor is because the circuit with logic ICs is lots of wires to draw and one use only. A micro is much more precise and versatile to use.
@Lester: Some suggestions for i.e. snubber circuit? Suggestions for additional protection?
@Nico: Arduino connected correct? What about modified program? Where did you connect your POT / LCD exactly?

TBD:

• 555 NMOS (slow but 200mA source sink at output) or CMOS (fast but 8mA only) - needs to be tested
• Control for dead time and frequency: Pot, digital pot or by simple terminal program from PC (USB)
• Display required?
• Option for current measurements required?
• Use of reset at pin at 555 in order to prevent unintended firing of FETs while program downloed and aother actions.

With some additions (voltge feedback) this circuit can peform as SMPSU - not high end precision PSU but suffitient in order to control the voltage for our loads from battery stack or welder. It depens on your requirements and your setup.

JohnS

Hello MR. John Stone!!


Nice, very nice, excellent!

We could always have the option to be able to control Frequency and Dead Times through our PC/Software programming...However, a Manual Pot should be there also to do Lab Practice without PC...As it will allow for other Applications like a Vehicle where Pot will be the Throttle/Accelerator...
Now the Current measurements Arduino Microprocessor would do...would be the one handled at Gates...but not at Drains right?

Display will be great, whenever not having PC nearby...

Dealing with this kind of Technology, so flexible, and Open Source... will takes Us all very FAR...to Horizons We have never dreamed off before...seriously...

So... We are waiting on Nico...to give the last final brushing......Then We will make a complete Diagram with Parts spec's and mounting Circuit Lay out ...sounds great.

I see it has several other PWM Programmable Ports (D2 through D13)...like when we get to Mag Three......So Cornboy555...read this and get ready!!


Thanks John Stone, Lester and Nico!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

[Lester444]

@Lester: Some suggestions for i.e. snubber circuit? Suggestions for additional protection?

Hello John,

Yes snubbers seem to be a "necessary evil" at these switching speeds.

The faster we turn off the FET the higher the flyback voltage will be (V=L x di/dt) and that's great for the radiant provided that the FET can handle the voltage. Unfortunately there is no hard and fast rule for snubbers: Sometimes the coil's inter-winding capacitance is enough to slow down the di/dt and in such a case a sunbber is no longer needed. For this application, it seems counter-productive to put a snubber because intuitively, it will snuff out the radiant lady. I'm sure you know that ladies don't like being "snobbed".

Alternatively, several high-voltage zener diodes in series with a high-speed diode (reverse connected to the zeners) will work in place of the snubber and this is preferred since it does not waste energy as a snubber does.

I would put the snubber and/or zeners across the coil, right at the source of the spike.


A reminder for everyone:
As we move towards high-energy coils (lots of amperes & lots of inductance) we need to keep the load connected AT ALL TIMES while we are pulsing the coil. Without a load the energy stored in the coil will have no where to go and it will seek the nearest discharge path and that's the FET. It might not survive the high-energy spikes.

Lester444

[JohnStone]

Four phase oscillator / driver

Ufo requested for his current setup a four phase oscillator.
Post
Post
I threw some components into the circuit and ask for discussion. It is what I intend to build.

The reason for using a microprocessor is because the circuit with logic ICs is lots of wires to draw and one use only. A micro is much more precise and versatile to use.
@Lester: Some suggestions for i.e. snubber circuit? Suggestions for additional protection?
@Nico: Arduino connected correct? What about modified program? Where did you connect your POT / LCD exactly?

TBD:

• 555 NMOS (slow but 200mA source sink at output) or CMOS (fast but 8mA only) - needs to be tested
• Control for dead time and frequency: Pot, digital pot or by simple terminal program from PC (USB)
• Display required?
• Option for current measurements required?
• Use of reset at pin at 555 in order to prevent unintended firing of FETs while program downloed and aother actions.

With some additions (voltge feedback) this circuit can peform as SMPSU - not high end precision PSU but suffitient in order to control the voltage for our loads from battery stack or welder. It depens on your requirements and your setup.

JohnS

[JohnStone]

Greeting all:

I have built and tested an 8 FET motor runner based on JS's modular design. It did smoke a NTE576 .... too much current, so there will be some higher amperage fast switching diodes ordered soon. Also, there are some tweaks that need to be made on my oscillator circuit. (Better precision resistors controlling the frequency and pulsewidth.)

So, the question is: How big a coil - ampacity wise- needs to be built to run the motor running the generator?

For instance (with made up numbers): A coil to carry 20 amps would need 1000 feet of #12 AWG magnet wire.

See what I'm getting at? Any ideas?

Keep chipping away folks,

glen

[prochiro]

GlenWV
That seems a bit to much to me. considering we are only firing two coil sets at one time. Factors to consider are on coils weight of wire matched, Ohms matched or somewhat higher. Gage of wire will fall into the formula when the other two factors are calculated and is a variable. JohnStone and UFO may help clarify this issue but for now that is what I can gather.
Dana

[GlenWV]

Coil question...

Greeting all:

I have built and tested an 8 FET motor runner based on JS's modular design. It did smoke a NTE576 .... too much current, so there will be some higher amperage fast switching diodes ordered soon. Also, there are some tweaks that need to be made on my oscillator circuit. (Better precision resistors controlling the frequency and pulsewidth.)

So, the question is: How big a coil - ampacity wise- needs to be built to run the motor running the generator?

For instance (with made up numbers): A coil to carry 20 amps would need 1000 feet of #12 AWG magnet wire.

See what I'm getting at? Any ideas?

Keep chipping away folks,

glen

[JohnStone]

JohnStone
Here is a site you may find interesting. A 160A , 13 to50V DC motor HDrive controller with all the math done.

Robot Power Products - Open Source Motor Control (OSMC)

Dana

Nice hints - thanks! I will extract some details out of the schematic.
Unfortunately they provide H bridges. Their protection circuits might kill radiant effects.
Same facts for their decent Arduino shield (MegaMoto) with motror driver.

@ALL: There are a pluraity of chances to build or buy a driver and/or modify it and unfortnately we can not discuss all variants here.
I suggest to disclose a modular schematic everybody can build (based on Lester's suggestion (555 with transistors added). Other solutions may be discussed but unfortunately not in deepest extent (practical reasons).
rgds
JohnS

[JohnStone]

I suffer from the same problem but at late European evening only. I guess it is either data path overload or some database maintenance.
JohnS

[iankoglin]

www.energeticforum.comwww.energeticforum.com forum technical staff have been notified of the error, though you may contact them if the problem persists.

We apologise for any inconvenience.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is persisting Please can you do something about this as it really wastes time hours in fact trying to use these forum Threads

I do not have the same problem with other forums I am registered with

Kindest Regards
Ian Koglin
PS
even trying tosend this post I am having problems and some times it double posts because I have to send again

[iankoglin]

www.energeticforum.comwww.energeticforum.com forum technical staff have been notified of the error, though you may contact them if the problem persists.

We apologise for any inconvenience.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is persisting Please can you do something about this as it really wastes time hours in fact trying to use these forum Threads

I do not have the same problem with other forums I am registered with

Kindest Regards
Ian Koglin

[JohnStone]

Measurement of low OHM

We have problems in measuring low ohms of our coils with cheap DMMs. In fact it is easy if we add some cheap components.

How do DMMs measure resistance?
They generate a constant current through the probes and unit under test and calculate the resistance from known current and voltage measured. As DMMs battery powered they can't use much current. Thus the voltage on a 0.5 ohm coil is minute and not consistant.

How can we improve it?
Build a current source yourself rated at about 1A and measure the voltage. Calculate yourself conforming Ohms law: R=U/I

How can we build a current source?
The good news is that any voltage regulator can be convinced to perform as current source. Take i.e. a LM317

The regulator will try to regulate the voltage between reference pin (bottom) and output (right hand). It can do so by sourcing current independently from the resistor under test. It will perform identically even if you short circuit the unit under test.

The green line above relates to voltage scale and amp scale at same time (strange but true).
Do not operate the circuit for long time because of heat.

Prcedure:

• Measure the current without UUT (corrsponds to short circuit).
• Connect the UUT - but please: make massive contacts i.e. with screw terminals (do not use those tiny baby alligator clips!)
• Measure the voltge on UUT - directly on contacts of the coil.
• Calculate resistance R=U/I

[JohnStone]

Hi ALL Friends?
Now I'm, back from vacation and you get my best wishes for your personal life and those you love and of course for our success here in UFO realms!

I am glad some of you have success with FET driving.
I will stress it again and again that the drivers suggested are not the top of technology available but a very good tradeoff between cost, complexity and understanding. All of us need to master this step before imgining any further improvements. (German saying: It is better to hold da sparrow in your hand than watching a dove sitting on the roof)

If FETs get hot soon there is something wrong:

• Driver too slow
• Driver emits voltage below 10V
• Oscillations at gate side (sourced by driver or output) (especially with long leads and breadbourd)
• Very low inductivity at output

diagram
And do not foret this post as enhancement

As I posted in my document - build building blocks (oscillator, FET/driver block) and examine them before you tie them together. This is professional behaviour conversely to throw all components to their place and torture your brain in order to find errors out of a plurality of errors possible. That's not smart at all.

Mastering the process above enables you to build serious pulsers later on.
JohnS