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**mbrownn** · 10-18-2011, 12:53 AM

He he he sort of like myth-busters, the thing is, myth-busters promotes myths. Maybe we should bust them to show that Hollywood science is not reality.

I agree, energy is the building block of nature so its disappearance results in matter and the destruction of mater results in energy. Just because you cannot see it does not mean it is not there.

**Web000x** · 10-18-2011, 01:13 AM

One interesting thing is the break down of Newton's third law:

Third law: The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear.

It would seem that the mutual forces of action and reaction are no longer opposite in special cases. Two additive force vectors stemming from the third law is a huge development. No disappointments here...

Dave

**ewizard** · 10-18-2011, 01:42 AM

I thought when I read the title of this thread it was going to be about some of those phony Magnet motor ads to power your house - just buy the book for only $47 - blah blah blah - you know the type of scam stuff we see and people come here sometimes asking what we think about such and such ad they found on the Internet such as Tesla something gizmo that you can build for a $100 to run your home or car. But I was surprised you have made reference to one of the people I think has done more in experiments than most anyone and may truly be advancing alternate energy in ways most of us could only dream about. No offense but I think Thane Heins is a seriously sharp guy. Just a bit of info you can glean about him from this post he made on another forum - most of it is quotes others are stating about his research:

"DEAR DAVE,

HOT FUSION OR COLD FUSION... BOTH ARE USED TO DRIVE A GENERATOR AND ARE ALREADY OBSOLETE SINCE A GENERATOR WHICH DRIVES ITSELF HAS ALREADY BEEN CREATED:

Detroit OEM Ottawa Demo PART 2
ThaneCHeins's Channel - YouTube

DUTCH REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR (ReGenX) REPLICATION:
overunityguide's Channel - YouTube

CHEERS
Thane

Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology represents major breakthrough in EV and HEV design which will now allows all EVs to CONTINUALLY RECHARGE THEIR BATTERIES and may provide UNLIMITED RANGE. Below is a video demonstration PDI provided for a Michigan based OEM which explains how the technology can be integrated into any EV, HEV or ICE vehicle.

Industry comments;

CHRYSLER ELECTRIFIED POWERTRAINS

- The technology looks really interesting and is revolutionary. I would like to learn more about the technology. Is it possible to organize a demo or a lecture in the USA?"

GENERAL MOTORS

- "This sounds interesting. I'd like you to connect with our Fuel Economy Learning Program manager, to schedule a time for you to come in
and share the technology with us. We need to know more about the Physics behind it".

"I have talked with my colleagues in GM US about your solution for vehicles. So, we would like more details about fuel economy and emissions regarding it
Do you have any company that use this approach in vehicles? I am open for discussion".

MERCEDES-BENZ

- "It would be fitting for the inventor of the automobile to be first with your revolutionary technology and for me to play a role in that would be awesome!"

NISSAN Japan

- "Thanks for providing technical information. If the effect of your invention is really true, I am sure there will be strong needs in the market.

How can you prove this on an actual electric vehicle, for example by making a prototype using our Nissan Leaf?
I would like to discuss your business model and financial requirements, investment needs, business plan."

NEIL YOUNG

- "We would like to find a way to use your technology in our LincVolt Project".

EV WORLD
Mike Brace, EV World Tech Editor

- "When we finally understand what Thane Heins has discovered, we likely will have to rewrite the laws of electromagnetism." EV WORLD: The Heins Effect

NASA
Erik Clark NASA-Goddard Space Flight Center

- "The magnetics lab here at Goddard expressed some interest in having you come down to do a colloquium"

US AIR FORCE
Omar Mendoza, Program Manager Energy & Environmental Quality Air Force Research Laboratory Wright Patterson

- "We really are more interested in developing its use and application for military power requirements"

CANADIAN SPACE AGENCY
Gilles Leclerc, Canadian Space Agency Space Technologies

- "I have asked Mr. Gilles Brassard, A/Director, Spacecraft Payload here at the Canadian Space Agency to look at your technologies and to visit your laboratory"

ELECTRIC MOBILITY CANADA
Mike Elwood, Chairman Electric Mobility Canada and Vice President of Azure Dynamics

"This is a freakin game changer!"

ELECTRIC MOBILITY CANADA
Al Cormier, Executive Director Electric Mobility Canada

- "I am writing to ask you to submit what you feel would be an appropriate document to describe your regenerative acceleration technology for circulation to our Committee members"

OTTAWA UNIVERSITY
Dr. Habash, University of Ottawa

- "Of course it accelerates... this represents several new chapters in physics, that is why we are consulting MIT"

UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO
Dr. Stanley Townsend, University of Toronto & Former Managing Editor of the Canadian Journal of Physics

- "Thane, Your Press Release was most interesting to me as a physicist & an engineer.
The level of technical detail was adequate to tell me that you probably have made a very significant advance
in applied physics & in safely & successfully handling a new source of electric power.
Congratulations!"

MIT
Dr. Marcus Zahn

- "It works and it is not something I would have expected, now I am just trying to figure it out"

RUSSIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCE
Dr. Evstigneev N.M., Institute for System Analysis, Russian Academy of Science

- " A number of your experiments are not lying in the field of Maxwellian electrodynamics"

UNIVERSITY OF CONCORDIA
Professor Joseph Shin, Concordia University

- "This is absolutely fascinating stuff you are doing"

ROCKY MOUNTAIN INSTITUTE
Mike Simpson, Transportation Analyst Rocky Mountain Institute

- "You seem to have made an interesting discovery. Our internal physics experts review this information and have determined that it is very interesting work"

PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS OF ONTARIO
Donald Wallace, Executive Director Ontario Centre for Engineering and Public Policy

- "Would you be willing to contribute an article on this technology to the Journal for Engineering and Public Policy?"

CANADIAN ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE
David Mann, Canadian Association for the Advancement of Science

- "If possible would like to meet with you to discuss your approach to the Association and of course to get a better feel about the physics behind your invention. I would still like to see what you are doing and perhaps we can include some of your material on our website newsletter?"

PDI Media Press
Thane Heins and the Infinity Generator Free Podcast | One Radio Network Thane Heins' Regenerative Acceleration Generator Goes Instead of Stopping
FEN_110824
CBC.ca | Out of Their Minds | Episode 5 - Thane Heins
CBC.ca | Out of Their Minds | Episode 10 - What Makes Them Tick?
Major Breakthrough In EV Technology To Recharge Batteries Conitually With Infinite Range | TheTechJournal.com
EV WORLD: The Heins Effect
Turning physics on its ear - thestar.com

Just a moment...

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article/17096--the-next-great-canadian-idea-peripiteia-generator

What's he building in there?: Truly unbelievable
Thane C. Heins - Inventor
An Internet commotion over 'perpetual motion'

"How do we make the world work for 100% of humanity in the shortest possible time
-through spontaneous cooperation without ecological damage or disadvantage to anyone?"
-- Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller
US AIR FORCE, NASA and CAAS Letters.pdf (203.95 KB - downloaded 5 times.)"

**Farmhand** · 10-18-2011, 02:00 AM

OK guys, the claim is .

ENERGY CAN BE CREATED : He says this based on his setup. Yet his setup is using almost 200 watts.

I ask you both. Do you think he created energy ?

And is his setup 140 % efficient ?

If not addressing the claim, there is no point posting.

I don't really care about endorsements they mean nothing to me.

Show me the power. I see two light bulbs and 200 watts input.

Cheers

**Farmhand** · 10-18-2011, 02:02 AM

Ok look at it like this.

How much power is he using from the grid ?

And how much power is consumed as "load" ?

And how much energy did he create ?

Cheers

**ewizard** · 10-18-2011, 02:20 AM

I'm not smart enough to analyze his info however I stand back and look at the bigger picture. Would NASA, USAF, GM, Mercedes etc., etc. want to talk to him if they felt this was bogus? I have also found recent info that cites that the laws of thermodynamics have been proven invalid both in theory and through experiment. However having said that I'll just back peddle a little and say I still think we may 'appear' to create energy but in nearly all cases it simply comes from an unseen source which may not yet be understood or seen. In my opinion he may be stating this as he has not to fool anyone but because he wants their attention brought to something that is really ground breaking and very real world useful. I've followed Thane for a couple years and find his work excellent. Gotoluc who used to be on here a lot and was well respected has also worked with Thane. So at this point I don't think any armchair speculation is going to prove anything one way or another and I doubt you will 'bust' his claim unless you fully duplicate his work and show it does not 'create energy'. I think we just need to let this one play out and tally the final results when cars are running down the road without recharging (or not).
I am just going to say I don't think you could have picked a harder claim to bust at this point. I was planning on going for the easy ones:
Secrets To Build A Free Energy Generator - Tesla Generator Blueprints Revealed
Magniwork - The Energy of Tomorrow, In Your Home Today!
And this one makes me mad because they are using Tesla's good name for bogus claims:
Tesla Secret

**Farmhand** · 10-18-2011, 02:25 AM

To asses the total efficiency of a device all the power to the device is
determined and the useful output power is divided by that, isn't it.

Measuring the efficiency of one aspect of a system is not much use.

The only real efficiency is the total efficiency.

I'm not concerned with the Laws, so much as the claim.

Maybe if he made is claim more specific.

I think what he is measuring is the difference in the efficiency of the
generator unloaded to loaded. It's a modified generator used differently. It
cannot be compared to anything else except in total efficiency or real
efficiency.

Meaning, useful power out / total power input, to the whole system.

I think to measure the shaft power he'll need to use a dyno or something.

What type of efficiency is he talking about ?

If it's not total it means very little.

I'm not disapointed either. I have no reason to be.

What efficiency do you guys think he is talking about ?

The effect has been replicated and there is obviously no extra energy.

Cheers

**Farmhand** · 10-18-2011, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by ewizard View Post

I'm not smart enough to analyze his info however I stand back and look at the bigger picture. Would NASA, USAF, GM, Mercedes etc., etc. want to talk to him if they felt this was bogus? I have also found recent info that cites that the laws of thermodynamics have been proven invalid both in theory and through experiment. However having said that I'll just back peddle a little and say I still think we may 'appear' to create energy but in nearly all cases it simply comes from an unseen source which may not yet be understood or seen. In my opinion he may be stating this as he has not to fool anyone but because he wants their attention brought to something that is really ground breaking and very real world useful. I've followed Thane for a couple years and find his work excellent. Gotoluc who used to be on here a lot and was well respected has also worked with Thane. So at this point I don't think any armchair speculation is going to prove anything one way or another and I doubt you will 'bust' his claim unless you fully duplicate his work and show it does not 'create energy'. I think we just need to let this one play out and tally the final results when cars are running down the road without recharging (or not).
I am just going to say I don't think you could have picked a harder claim to bust at this point. I was planning on going for the easy ones:
Secrets To Build A Free Energy Generator - Tesla Generator Blueprints Revealed
Magniwork - The Energy of Tomorrow, In Your Home Today!
And this one makes me mad because they are using Tesla's good name for bogus claims:
Tesla Secret

I don't need to bust his claim he hasn't proven it.

I'll just ask the questions. The answers will bust the claim.

The energy used all comes from the wall socket, the grid or whatever the
source of the 200 watts is.

Where is the real world use ?

Please address the topic.

The claim is he created energy in that setup, and the by-claim is it was 140% efficient.

You might be sitting in an armchair but i'm not. I'm not really a critic, I just
want straight answers to straight questions. If the questions are answered
truthfully, I'll accept that.

I think he paints a very fuzzy picture.

Cheers

**Farmhand** · 10-18-2011, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by Web000x View Post

One interesting thing is the break down of Newton's third law:

Third law: The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear.

It would seem that the mutual forces of action and reaction are no longer opposite in special cases. Two additive force vectors stemming from the third law is a huge development. No disappointments here...

Dave

How do you figure ? Depends how you define opposite.

I'm not saying that law is valid or not either, I didn't bring it up you did.
My concern is not with weather Thane broke a "Law" or not, my concern is the
claim of "creating energy" and the what 140% efficiency is a measure of.

EDIT: I misspoke above, I should have said something like, "Depends how you apply the word "opposite" in context".

..

**Farmhand** · 10-18-2011, 04:46 AM

What would be very impressive and hard to deny would be if the generator was
consuming 20 watts at a steady state speed then when 20 watts usable
power was consumed (load applied) the generator rotor gained speed.

Or even if say 200 watts input power was consumed for a 100 watt electrical
load with an increase in rotor speed while supplying 100 watts of shaft power.

Even if it could supply a total mechanical plus electrical total usable power
output of the same as the input or more while maintaining constant speed.

Bottom line is he is using 200 watts to power what looks like 2 x 25 watt bulbs
n that video, with no power through the bulbs measured, that I seen, if there
was an output power measurement I missed it.

Cheers

**Web000x** · 10-18-2011, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Farmhand View Post

How do you figure ? Depends how you define opposite.

I'm not saying that law is valid or not either, I didn't bring it up you did.
My concern is not with weather Thane broke a "Law" or not, my concern is the
claim of "creating energy" and the what 140% efficiency is a measure of.

EDIT: I misspoke above, I should have said something like, "Depends how you apply the word "opposite" in context".

..

The fact that he is drawing any amount of energy off of the generator coils while the rotor accelerates due to the coils drawing power from the moving rotor is indicative of some type of action/reaction additive effect.

I have a hunch that if you had a setup similar to Thane's in a vacuum with magnetic bearings that once the lenz acceleration kicked in, you would have a self runner if you removed your input power.

Disclaimer: *** This is Speculation ***

Dave

**Farmhand** · 10-18-2011, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by Web000x View Post

The fact that he is drawing any amount of energy off of the generator coils while the rotor accelerates due to the coils drawing power from the moving rotor is indicative of some type of action/reaction additive effect.

I have a hunch that if you had a setup similar to Thane's in a vacuum with magnetic bearings that once the lenz acceleration kicked in, you would have a self runner if you removed your input power.

Disclaimer: *** This is Speculation ***

Dave

You're entitled to you're opinion.

Cheers

**ewizard** · 10-18-2011, 07:24 PM

Have you seen this replication of Thane's work? : overunityguide's Channel - YouTube

**Farmhand** · 10-18-2011, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by ewizard View Post

Have you seen this replication of Thane's work? : overunityguide's Channel - YouTube

Yes I have, why is that ? Did you calculate the real efficiency of that ?

It is more efficient to power the load at the lower frequency than it is to
power it at the higher frequency to show the reduction in input.

At the lower frequency it uses 58 watts to power about a 3 watt load
(I think the load is a bit less than 3 watt).
And at higher frequency it uses about 74 watts to power the same load.

So it uses 16 watts more power to show a decrease when the load is applied.

Obviously he has reduced the efficiency of lighting the light. Neat trick.

But what possible use could it be to use more power just so the meter can be
seen to reduce. Would it be ok if he used 500 Kw of power to light a 50 Kw
load bank just to see a reduction of 50 Kw, thereby wasting many Kw ?

Also at the lower frequency I think the motor is not working at it's most
efficient speed as well, I think it is made to run at a slower speed it doesn't
like to run at for the lower frequency part of the demo and that would reduce
it's efficiency in the normal operation mode. Even though it is a long way from
being a normal setup so it can't be compared in any way to a normal
generator other than in total efficiency. And I bet it can't even light a 10
watt load. Considering the size of the setup it should be able to do that.

Who runs a generator to power a 3 watt load anyway ?

Let me know you're calculations. Remember the real efficiency is all the power
used after the wall socket, that means the frequency drive controller and the
drive motor of the generator, If it was just the drive motor plugged into the
wall it wouldn't work like that.

Can you explain to me how it is an improvement in efficiency to use more
power to power the same load? Because in my reality that is a reduction in
efficiency.

Cheers

Edit: actually to calculate the real efficiency he would need to produce his
own AC power to run from instead of the grid. It costs energy to have the AC
power there to use, there are efficiency "hit's" taken to do it, which you pay
for in the power bill, as a part of the cost of the power. So he is paying for some
of the efficiency he is claiming.

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