Terms and Definitions

[nueview]

to Iotayodi
i made the statement and stand by it but wish i had not used the wording YOU
all you have said in responce is true and does occur and when the deffinition of work comes around it is going to be a real problem.
energy is ever present in the galaxy some force was initiated that set things in motion and it continues to go on, much of the energy we generate or use comes from this generated stockpile and somewere something generates or moves a field now in nature it is easy to find examples of things taking things apart as well as things being constructed by a single energy patern.
but we as people have not even mastered the concept of recycling.so all our energy use is out of balance and thus costs us more effort to create.
because we choose to ignore something by omition does not make it fact that it is not there.
it is why i would not argue over the conservation of energy discussion.
Martin

[Iotayodi]

much of the energy we generate or use comes from this generated stockpile and somewere something generates or moves a field

That what I believe. The cosmic aether being the source. With the new light shed on dark matter/energy, more scientists may start to work on extracting energy from it.

[Farmhand]

Here's what I was thinking about current. If a piece of #12 wire get's hot from
current of 200 amps and a superconductor doesn't then it occurs to me that
when electrical charge is transferred through a resistance the effect of the
transfer of charge might be what causes the electrons to jiggle. So couldn't it
be possible that the electron flow is an unwanted but unavoidable result or
effect of the transfer of charge through a resistance, or put another way the
current we measure is like the wake of the boat but the wake of the boat is
not the process by which the boat is moved, the wake of the boat is only the
consequence, however by measuring the wake the amount of boat could be
measured. I think measured current is the same kinda thing it is the result of
what happened not part of the process itself.

Even though the boat may be moving very fast the wake moves only a small
amount in progression. So it seems that maybe the electron movement is like
the wake of the boat.

What about displacement current, how much do electrons shuffle when
displacement current occurs ?

Could it be that the measured current is only a result of the transfer of
charge and being easy to see and measure and fairly uniform in it's resulting
action we measure it as an indication of what happened ? Why not ?

Maybe considering displacement current at the same time could help.

Anyway those are my thoughts so far.

Cheers

[Iotayodi]

that
when electrical charge is transferred through a resistance the effect of the
transfer of charge might be what causes the electrons to jiggle.

Not just the electrons but the molecules. Rapid vibrations of molecules cause heat. That is the effect. Super conductors are super cooled which essentially stops the molecules from vibrating and lets the current flow unimpeded. As long as the super cooled temperature is maintained the current will continue like a perpetual motion machine in the superconducting materiel.

[mbrownn]

to Iotayodi


we as people have not even mastered the concept of recycling.so all our energy use is out of balance and thus costs us more effort to create.
because we choose to ignore something by omition does not make it fact that it is not there.
it is why i would not argue over the conservation of energy discussion.
Martin

Exactly, recycle the energy and don't short it out destroying the source. Tom Beardon said it.

I urge people to watch Tesla's impulse technology from the energy from the vacuum series and read http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-circuits.html Once you understand these two concepts you can work out how many of the free energy devices work. Present day working examples are Aviso's electric car and Matt's Tesla switch.

Bedini's circuits show you how to get the "extra" energy out, placing batteries or capacitors in the return line shows you how to collect energy that has passed through the circuit (Tesla switch) and my thread gives you the basic method of recycling the energy in the circuit. When you do this you find no energy is lost except in resistance and mechanical losses, in other words we are powering the losses and not the load in a motor. (I don't understand hysteresis so haven't included those losses).

[nueview]

as far as heat goes you are on the right track the resistance per unit volume causes heat just as all materials have a different resistance so to heat has a specific ration of charge to volume that makes it heat.

i have not been on my computer the last few days so sorry for not writing.
i just finnished 'The super simple radiant battery charger " from this thread and have been testing it.
the first battery was real bad .56 volt no amps readable and in two hours it got to 7.5 volts but the amps were low and it seemed to be mostly what one see's with surface charge but it did charge which is more than i can say for any other system i have tried on this battery.
the next one was at 5.9 volts and much larger car battery and got to 9.8 volts going in steps it has little charge mostly a surface charge right now but i am letting it go to see what happens long term as when the surface charge was drawn off it was back to 9.8 volts in an hour so something is happening.

over the years i have read allot about battery charge and polarity and how the terms have been confused with what is actually going on and this makes me wonder if i have the polarity wrong for the actual circuit?
i mean is the positive terminal actually the excess of charge flowing to the negative or is the negative the excess going to the positive terminal.
sorry to bring this up but i have always assumed that the negative is charge loaded and the potential is at the positive.
Martin

[Farmhand]

as far as heat goes you are on the right track the resistance per unit volume causes heat just as all materials have a different resistance so to heat has a specific ration of charge to volume that makes it heat.

i have not been on my computer the last few days so sorry for not writing.
i just finnished 'The super simple radiant battery charger " from this thread and have been testing it.
the first battery was real bad .56 volt no amps readable and in two hours it got to 7.5 volts but the amps were low and it seemed to be mostly what one see's with surface charge but it did charge which is more than i can say for any other system i have tried on this battery.
the next one was at 5.9 volts and much larger car battery and got to 9.8 volts going in steps it has little charge mostly a surface charge right now but i am letting it go to see what happens long term as when the surface charge was drawn off it was back to 9.8 volts in an hour so something is happening.

over the years i have read allot about battery charge and polarity and how the terms have been confused with what is actually going on and this makes me wonder if i have the polarity wrong for the actual circuit?
i mean is the positive terminal actually the excess of charge flowing to the negative or is the negative the excess going to the positive terminal.
sorry to bring this up but i have always assumed that the negative is charge loaded and the potential is at the positive.
Martin

I think the voltage of a battery is just an indication of amount of the
separation of charge. A 12 volt battery can be the 12 volts between 48 and
60 volts in a series string or bank. It should be possible to charge a battery
by pulling the positive up with the negative referenced or by pulling the
negative down with the positive referenced (like Matt's switch).

As far as I can tell by looking at the battery it could work both ways.

Pick any point in a series string of batteries or caps and reference it to ground
then everything above is positive and below is negative. Energy will always
want to flow from higher potential to low. A negative potential is a higher potential than zero. I think.

Cheers

[nueview]

i thought this as well and it works great for capacitors charging but in the battery something is missing something else is needed the chemical reaction in order to hold a charge within itself seems to need something extra.
i am thinking it is like a flywheel some spin that increases the mass speed in a location increases the local charge retention and holds the potential and charge one without the other is useless and just surface charge.

i have a few more tests to run but they take allot of time. i will keep an update as i go. basically i know something is wrong but not sure just what yet i will keep you posted to what i find.
Martin

[boguslaw]

Exactly, recycle the energy and don't short it out destroying the source. Tom Beardon said it.

I urge people to watch Tesla's impulse technology from the energy from the vacuum series and read http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-circuits.html Once you understand these two concepts you can work out how many of the free energy devices work. Present day working examples are Aviso's electric car and Matt's Tesla switch.

Bedini's circuits show you how to get the "extra" energy out, placing batteries or capacitors in the return line shows you how to collect energy that has passed through the circuit (Tesla switch) and my thread gives you the basic method of recycling the energy in the circuit. When you do this you find no energy is lost except in resistance and mechanical losses, in other words we are powering the losses and not the load in a motor. (I don't understand hysteresis so haven't included those losses).

That's why resonance is important.Heat=radio waves=mechanical losses. And we are paying for all this sickenss. In permanent magnets electricity circulate forever

[nueview]

iwatched this today and thought about you guys as matels are heated risistance increases but in semiconductors as they are heated the resistance goes down.

there were some other things mentioned as well but it got me thinking what exactly is a permanent magnet a load stone is FE3O3 natural magnet so what is the permanent latice drift current direction?

hope it at least makes you think.

AT&T Archives: Dr. Walter Brattain on Semiconductor Physics - YouTube

Martin

[nueview]

ok here's the update.
the battery was put on the conventional charger and went in 3hr to 12.6 volt so i am not sure that what i built is actually a charger perhaps it is better termed a conditioner as this battery would not charge more than 9 volts ever before so i am a bit happy alittle disappointed and more than slightly confused.
someone on these threads was talking about a negative pulse charger that crystalized the battery and made it useless. any information would help if you are watching.
i will continue testing tommorrow and post another update.
Martin

[mbrownn]

ok here's the update.
the battery was put on the conventional charger and went in 3hr to 12.6 volt so i am not sure that what i built is actually a charger perhaps it is better termed a conditioner as this battery would not charge more than 9 volts ever before so i am a bit happy alittle disappointed and more than slightly confused.
someone on these threads was talking about a negative pulse charger that crystalized the battery and made it useless. any information would help if you are watching.
i will continue testing tommorrow and post another update.
Martin

Hi nueview, what circuit are you using?

It may have been me talking about negative energy and I do think we need to define it as some call all "radiant" negative. As I understand it the radiant is the energy found in the transient spike and it can be both positive and negative. When we use the SSG circuit using a single diode we collect only the positive radiant and there is no negative going to the battery. Using a Bedini SSG (trifler coil) with no capacitor but using a full bridge rectifier to directly charge a lead acid battery, I noticed a slightly faster charge than normal and that the batteries capacity was greatly improved far above its amp-hour rating so I decided to cycle the battery a few times and measure the real capacity. It must be said that it would no longer charge on a conventional charger but appeared shorted by drawing high current and getting hot. On the last charge I noticed a few white crystals forming on the plates but continued to charge the battery with the trifler col. A few hours later when I looked at the battery the whole of the plates were covered in fine white crystals and the battery was hot and would not charge with any method.

I think the negative energy caused all these effects.

Now I will start to theorize as I can't detect what I am telling you about. At the moment an electron enters an uncharged wire, any negatively charged "particles" will be expelled from the wire and that these negative particles cannot be measured in terms of volts or amps. The spike occurs as a transient at the beginning of the pulse and not at the end where we see the positive transient. Because we are using a bridge rectifier this negative goes to the charging battery and causes the effects above. Alternatively it could be that as the electrons enter the wire it draws positively charged particles from the charging battery causing the battery to go negative or both.

To understand this we have to define voltage as a differential between two points and that normal charging raises the positive terminal above the balanced position; negative charging lowers the negative terminal below the balanced position. Just my theory, any comments?

[nueview]

i hope this works to this link it is on this sight but getting pretty far back.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/8807d1313824906-super-simple-super-efficient-capacitive-radiant-pulse-charger-pulse-charger.jpg

this charger holds the whole battery positive and smacks it with a current so i do not think there is any real spiking but will put it on a scope today and try to get a picture.
when you first start useing it the battery temperature drops about 2 degrees F this happened with all the batteries i put it on. i never see the 65 volts which are supposed to be on the battery positive but instead i just see were the battery is at as far as volts go.
i hope this helps. i will know more when i get out to the shop and see if i still have 12.6 volts on this battery. right now anything is a gain as it was destined for the dump.
i wonder if the crystalizing occurs at a point above the normal charging?
Martin

[nueview]

ok here goes i opened up the seal battery and it had no fluid but it was damp inside so no charging on that one is ok for now it is 12AH 12 volt but the conditioner brought it up to 6.8 volt even in this conditionand it is still holding at 2.6 volts, i may add some distilled water just to see it kind of has me guessing now. either way no loss just time.

now the car battery it blead off the surface charge and settled at 11.6 volts so it lost a volt it just got a three hr charge yesterday to 12.6 volts not sure what to think there yet so put it back on the conditioner.

the 8D battery on the conditioner for 24 hrs came up to 12.1 volt from 12v so it seemed like not allot of conditioning but on the regular charger it came to 12.7 volt in one hour with a 10 charge rate. that seems low but for that big a battery it is quite a bit.

also running on the bigger battery flaked the nickel off the clips so you may have a point MBrown, the scope just shows a bunch of spikes from the 65 volt to 0v and back up no real information there i was looking for the leading and trailing spikes but it was not real obvious.
there is a difference though in the two charging methods and it is not the same for both more like one picks up where the other leaves off.
Martin

[Farmhand]

i hope this works to this link it is on this sight but getting pretty far back.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/8807d1313824906-super-simple-super-efficient-capacitive-radiant-pulse-charger-pulse-charger.jpg

this charger holds the whole battery positive and smacks it with a current so i do not think there is any real spiking but will put it on a scope today and try to get a picture.
when you first start useing it the battery temperature drops about 2 degrees F this happened with all the batteries i put it on. i never see the 65 volts which are supposed to be on the battery positive but instead i just see were the battery is at as far as volts go.
i hope this helps. i will know more when i get out to the shop and see if i still have 12.6 volts on this battery. right now anything is a gain as it was destined for the dump.
i wonder if the crystalizing occurs at a point above the normal charging?
Martin

Hi Martin, I can't see any real problem with that charger except the grid supply

It should work ok, though if it were me I would probably go for a larger
discharge cap if we say the neon fires to discharge the cap at 85 volts and
the battery is 12 volts then there is 5 uf discharged from 73 volts which is
only 13.3 millijoules, I would go for 200 uf or 470 uf 400 volt discharge cap for
a half joule or 1 joule or so. I take it the frequency is 60 Hz ?

How much power does the setup use ?

Another thing to check which I found with SCR's and DC pulses is sometimes
the SCR does not switch off and the current just flows.

To check this just measure the discharge cap while it is operating and if it
reads 70 or 80 volts it is switching off, but if it reads only a couple of volts above
the battery then it is just conducting. If it was just conducting it could use a lot of
power maybe depending on different things. I think the series capacitor is the
current restricter isn't it ? Maybe it needs to be bigger too.

Gell cell batteries are a pain, but they are handy to have.

I'm interested in how much power it uses.

EDIT: maybe 200 uf is a bit much, I must admit even with 5 uf it should
condition a battery but it would be slow, and if the voltage of a battery is
below 12 volts it is sulfating the plates, maybe the battery is getting sulfated
faster than it is getting desulfated, I like to get them up over 11.5 volts fairly
quickly 12v if possible then desulfate them for days or weeks like that before
trying to charge them, and then never let them go below again if I can help it.