Coil Shorting Techniques.

[Zooty]

Thought it might a good time to start a thread on coil shorting phenomena. As most of you know, shorting a coil at the peek of a sine wave for a brief moment produces a lot of voltage. There are many ways to do it but electronically is the best method so far. I only have a reed switch at hand but the method can be demonstrated pretty well. Putting a capacitor of the correct value in series with the generator coil reduces the voltage output but also eliminates the drag on the rotor. I have uploaded a video to demonstrate this. YouTube - ‪Bedini Cole Window Motor Coil shorting with and without capacitor‬‏

This is a link that explains the effect in more detail. https://sites.google.com/site/altern...coils-circuits

[redrichie]

Great video Zooty. Maybe Nvisser can comment on the effects of coil shorting. he has been working with shorting for a while now. I have started a new rotor that I can utilize these techniques. But after scratching the surface of this I feel many of the systems we discuss will start to use shorting. Something Romero had said that I wish to try is having the coil shorted for most of the pulse and then releasing at the peak.
What would happen if you had a multifilar coil that had say 3 of the windings shorted, and then in cascading order release the shorts of each individual strand to consecutively release in a higher and higher state of inductance. maybe nothing. just a thought.

[Slider2732]

I like that poly-phasing thought
Would it be as simple to implement as fitting differently sized AC capacitors to the coil sections ?

Own trials have produced great results. The instant change from single side to both side lighting of a neon bulb, at what appears to be the same brightness as single side lighting. I fall down on abilities to measure though, so have no idea of the increase, if there is one.

Simple timing tricks are another area of interest over here. One simple method, that I use a lot, is to run the Hall switched transistor output to a collector coil as well as just the drive coil. It keeps the coil exactly in sync. I get much better outputs through a FWBR if I short the coil just before a magnet passes. However, constant shorting would be preferred and so some kind of inverter would be best to turn things over to an opposite - as Romero was perhaps indicating.
A 7404 chip will swap a digital signal and an idea is to place that on the Hall sensor output. That then goes to a transistor that 'shorts' (with BEMF diode in line) until the Hall switches to fire the powering coil. At which point, it switches off and the collector coil conducts.
7404 datasheet - SN7404N datasheet pdf datenblatt - Texas Instruments - These devices contain six independent inverters ::: ALLDATASHEET :::
You get 6 such inverters on one chip and they are readily found on especially 1980's/1990's equipment. Computer card boards or arcade game boards mostly, in my experience.

[redrichie]

Heres a video on the coil shorting effect I had written about about. please excuse the sloppy setup. ITs heartbreaking to spend so much time on a rig that is a dud. so I had to redeem myself a little. This is very crude and basic. I was going to show a small light bulb lit from the output through a bridge into a cap. But I burnt them out. All of them. I need a little bigger one.

the speed of rotor and the amount of Amp draw decrease is VERY dependent of input voltage and current..

No I didnt put a meter on it either. Dont laugh, but I can generate enough energy to burn out light bulbs but if you forget to charge batteries for your meters then.....well youd be me!!! And yep laugh it up.. a magnet launch to finish up the vid.
YouTube - ‪coil shorting combined multifilar coil‬‏
For those of you in other forums.....yeah its cut and paste.

[Slider2732]

Nice demo
That piggyback coil really does make a good difference. Can't see too many laughing up the magnet, we've all done it i'm sure. Many folks would have clipped the video short too no doubt lol. Was going very well up to the end.
What happens if you reverse connections to the reed switch ? as in, have it fire the coil momentarily rather than short it ?

[Zooty]

Heres a video on the coil shorting effect I had written about about. please excuse the sloppy setup. ITs heartbreaking to spend so much time on a rig that is a dud. so I had to redeem myself a little. This is very crude and basic. I was going to show a small light bulb lit from the output through a bridge into a cap. But I burnt them out. All of them. I need a little bigger one.

the speed of rotor and the amount of Amp draw decrease is VERY dependent of input voltage and current..

No I didnt put a meter on it either. Dont laugh, but I can generate enough energy to burn out light bulbs but if you forget to charge batteries for your meters then.....well youd be me!!! And yep laugh it up.. a magnet launch to finish up the vid.
YouTube - ‪coil shorting combined multifilar coil‬‏
For those of you in other forums.....yeah its cut and paste.

lol .. nice little reed switch fly by. Interesting effect (the amp draw reduction). I am looking for a simple way to short my coil for the same amount of time each magnet pass. Around 2ms would be good. I thought about a 555 in oneshot mode triggered by a coil but i want to avoid more electronics. Minoly had a ssg circuit doing the job but i wonder if the short time is adjustable.

[quantumuppercut]

Hello gang,

I was very interested with coil shorting. I think it's a hot thing lately. lol I just came up with a method for coil shorting that seems easy to me. Haven't test it out fully yet but it seems to give high voltage for low RPM. I know the formal way is to short the coil at peak or open the switch at peak. Well, I heard that we don't have to do it at peak so I came up with a machine gun style shorting. Basically we brutally tank the wheel with short random pulses. I use a mechanical switch in auto mode. My bike wheel with 8 magnets gives 30 volts @ .004 RPM. lol (it makes 1 complete turn every 4 seconds).

(Edit: Oops, it was 15 RPM... wrong conversion factor lol )

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

[quantumuppercut]

Hello again gang,

Just did some more experiments. This time I connect a 4700uF cap to see the output power. ... It charges up to 10V in..14 secs. I calculated the average power to be around 16mW . I estimate the speed is around the pulse motor speed at 12V and .2A . Which is around 2.4 Watts . After a bit of turned off, I try to see what could be done to improve. I came up with an equation to estimate the power.

S*N/M

S = linear speed of the rotor
N = pulse frequency
M = magnet spacing

I realized that I only have 8 magnets where the wheel could hold another 24 magnets. That would triple my output to 48mW if I fill up all the space. If I have a smaller rotor, I could go to higher linear speed in exchange for radius. I estimated that to be another factor of 4 which gives 192mW . I'm not sure what the mechanical relay frequency is but I need another 13 factor to match the input. But I love the mechanical relay. Maybe I'll consider magnet strength too. Anyway, has been fun.

QU

[minoly]

Heres a video on the coil shorting effect I had written about about. please excuse the sloppy setup. ITs heartbreaking to spend so much time on a rig that is a dud. so I had to redeem myself a little. This is very crude and basic. I was going to show a small light bulb lit from the output through a bridge into a cap. But I burnt them out. All of them. I need a little bigger one.

the speed of rotor and the amount of Amp draw decrease is VERY dependent of input voltage and current..

No I didnt put a meter on it either. Dont laugh, but I can generate enough energy to burn out light bulbs but if you forget to charge batteries for your meters then.....well youd be me!!! And yep laugh it up.. a magnet launch to finish up the vid.
YouTube - ‪coil shorting combined multifilar coil‬‏
For those of you in other forums.....yeah its cut and paste.

Nice vid.
any thoughts as to what is going on?
how it effects charging etc...
thanks for sharing that

Patrick

[minoly]

SSG short

may as well post the SSG short here.
YouTube - ‪Pulse motor and Bolt's Amplified SSG short‬‏
some serious spikes come out of this one.

@Zooty, been watching your windowmotor build, very nice

we almost have the always on then release short going, will post if something comes of it.

Patrick

[redrichie]

PAtrick,
The only thing I can think of, and I dont have the scientific backing to show it, is this:
1. a coil once wound has a specific inductance. this includes windings, core etc.
2. when a rotor magnet approaches the inductance slightly lowers and generation starts.
3. once magnet starts to pass through coil inductance starts to return to a higher state thus causing Lenz? here I may be way off.
4. But at the peak of the wave if we short and we drop the bottom out of the inductance and its lowered even further instead of going to a normal higher state and letting Lenz do its thing. thus letting the voltage climb even higher instead of being impeded upon by natural forces.
5. the short is over and inductance is returned to normal but since we artificially delayed the time when Lenz would take place the magnet is now too far past the coil for Lenz to have any effect. Well thats misleading.
6. IT does have an effect. It should be attracting the next incoming magnet instead of holding back the original magnet. So the generator acts kinda like an attraction motor.
To me its like a magnet and coil are a semi going up a mountain. The driver punches the accelerator to climb the mountain. at the peak of the mountain the trucks accelerator is punched to the floor trying to overcome gravity, load... But right before the driver lets off the gas because he is about to top the mountain GOD screws with him and turns off gravity. The trucks engine was bogged down due to the load he was carrying and the forces of nature such as gravity and wind resistance etc. All of a sudden when gravity (inductance) was turned off the driver still had his foot to the floor and since there was nothing to hold him back the engines rpms all of a sudden went to redline!!! his wheels leave the road for an instant (the pulse from the reed, all etc..) spinning very fast. then in GODS infinite wisdom he turns gravity back on so as to not have a driver with a nasty pair of shorts. the truck touches back down on the other side of the mountain. but he is on the other side so there are no forces to hold him back, in fact they help him. gravity pulls him down the hill

I hope this analogy has some merit. If not think of it as a bit of comic relief from all the seriousness that had occurred in the last month thanks to Romero.

This theory is kind of what I gathered that was kinda happening in the Bedini Ferris Wheel somehow. An artificial inductance lowering and raising. or a time delay.

[redrichie]

ive also thought of it like this:

take a tennis ball and drop it. it bounces back up to its natural ability to a certain height. take a basketball and repeat. same effect. now hold tennis ball on top of basketball and drop both together. the tennis ball will fly way up in the air. for no more input than it took to drop it in the first place.

[quantumuppercut]

Has been on investigation about the capacitor(.47uF) in series with the shorting switch. I do not have a .47uF but I tested a varieties of cap values available. None of them charge output expect for the huge 4700uF. This is interesting why a cap there and how it should work at all. I put a DC meter across the series cap and observed the voltage fluctuates up and down randomly(this agree with the random pulses). I shorted the coil completely and the voltage fluctuates the same. This makes me conclude that my ON time is too long to have any shorting effect with cap in series. Will further investigate if this is the key or one of the keys to OU or at least cause no drag/increase speed.

[mbrownn]

An interesting thought on coil shorting.

What would be the result of taking a universal motor and running it on DC as the coil, place a gear on the shaft and short the motor with a brush touching the teeth of the gears?

If the motor speed was sufficiently high the current draw should not be altered significantly as the moments of contact would be so short that little current will flow. Any high voltage could be collected Bedini style or by a bridge rectifier.

If the collected power was greater than any increase on power it would be very interesting I have read many articles stating that there would be and this would be a simple experiment to test it.

[Steve220]

Just thinking only

If a person used electromagnets in the rotor in place of the permanent magnets and was able to switch them off as the rotor electromagnets passed TDC of the stator coils, it looks like a set up like this could be able to bypass Lenz law.

Kind of a magnetic diode effect.
A induced current in the stator coil on the approach, but nothing in the stator coil on the tail end.
There would be no magnetic field once passed TDC of the stator coil.
No or very little Lenz effect in the stator coil.
A diode in series with the stator coils could help to keep the current flowing the same direction.

Of course you would have to supply current to the rotor coils, but only for the short time up to TDC, then off. If the rotor coils were staggered so only one coil was on one at a time, may be the current would not be that much.

I guess what I am trying to say is instead of just doing things to the stator coils to over come the permanent magnets of the rotor, may be just doing away with the permanent magnets altogether and use a switched electro magnet in the rotor.

While there is no cost involved to obtain a magnetic field from a permanent magnet, there is a down side to it as it is an uncontrolled magnetic field, other than its movement being attached to the rotor. It is always on, so it has to be controlled on the generator coil side. Sort of free, with a cost.

The field of a electro magnet attached to the rotor is not free, but has a controlled cost to it. Plus the cost may be able to be cut in half if it is on only during the ramp up to TDC.
Of course the electromagnet of the rotor, could have its own back emf during the shut off at TDC. But with proper timing of the coil cutoff, might be able to be a minimal amount or even a plus if a spike at or near TDC happens at the right time.

Now there could be magnetic control and timing on both the rotor magnets and the stator coils for best performance.

May be even enough current could be produced in the stator coils to make up the difference in using the electro magnets in place of the premanent magnets, with some current left over to do something useful.

This may have already been tried, if so, never mind.