Muller generator replication by Romerouk

[quantumuppercut]

Theoretically, it might not have much to do with the speed of propagation although i think permeability is important for power return. I think the main mechanism behind the magnetic delay is the coil resistance/inductance. We have seen it work with ferrite and iron which are very different from each other but when the coil is not shorted, there is no effect. Purely theoretical and nothing more.

Good point, but we have to think "does coil really have inductance?" lol If u remove the iron or ferrite, you have air. Inductance went down. If you remove air, you have vacuum. Inductance went down further. If you remove the vacuum...hmmm Well, at least we still have resistance. lol

[Matthew Jones]

Wire with current on it by itself is inductive. You always have induction if you have a current. Unless you have reverse time. All Lenz tricking is a time reversal, time reversal equals polarity reversal, or no polarity at all.

Matt

[Xenomorph]

Wire with current on it by itself is inductive. You always have induction if you have a current. Unless you have reverse time. All Lenz tricking is a time reversal, time reversal equals polarity reversal, or no polarity at all.

Matt

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

[elias]

Rodney,
I have tested a bunch of welding rods as a core, but they do heat up, and drag the rotor, the core is about 40mm in diameter, a pretty large core, and the magnet is 45mm in diameter. The welding rods are 2mm welding rods. I even used some straight clips as a core, but it made no difference, they did heat up.
Thanks

[toranarod]

Rodney,
I have tested a bunch of welding rods as a core, but they do heat up, and drag the rotor, the core is about 40mm in diameter, a pretty large core, and the magnet is 45mm in diameter. The welding rods are 2mm welding rods. I even used some straight clips as a core, but it made no difference, they did heat up.
Thanks

Hello Elias
My internet is down somebody near my home dug up the fiber optic cable.

thanks for the info about the welding rods. I was going to give them a try.
That is the most easily available material.

I have been working for a living the last few days and not had time to start my motor generator. Its on my mind and I will makes some changes.

have you had any more advances with your motor? anything new to share?

[elias]

Nothing new, of course this might be because my magnets are large. The welding rods must not differ that much from laminated Iron plates.
You provided to final proof, so thank you for that, that motivates us. will be doing some tests.

[elias]

Rod, can you test this with a ferrite core, I want to know if this effect is related to Iron cores or not. thanks, I have a rotor with 16 15mm dia magnets on it, going to use that for my newer tests.

[toranarod]

Rod, can you test this with a ferrite core, I want to know if this effect is related to Iron cores or not. thanks, I have a rotor with 16 15mm dia magnets on it, going to use that for my newer tests.

I am on it.

need to find the right size core

[elias]

laminates are less than 0.35mm in thickness and are much appropriate.
My next test will be done with magnets that have double thickness thus more magnetic flux to them, thus yielding to more voltage per RPM, as I recall Muller was using one inch thick magnets.

[boguslaw]

Hmm...
Light speed is maximum in vacuum, that means matter slow it down.
Do you think that ferromagnetic material speed up magnetic flux or rather slow down ?

[marxist]

... Do you think that ferromagnetic material speed up magnetic flux or rather slow down ?

Hi boguslaw,
I don't know.
But I think the speed-up effect is not primarily related to the "propagation speed" of the magnetic flux in a coil core.

I think what helps us and what causes the speed-up effect, is that it takes time to polarize and then reverse-polarize a ferromagnetic core. I think physicists call this "reluctance". A ferromagnetic core "is reluctant" to change its polarity (when forced to do so by a passing magnet).

With an air core or vacuum, polarization of the core would happen "instantaneous". And this is why we need ferromagnetic cores - if my understanding is correct.

In other words: with a ferromagnetic core, there is a DELAY between the cause (= the passing magnet) and the effect/reaction (= polarization of the core).

If the rotor speed is high enough and just right, then there is just the right delay that the Lenz-force speeds up the rotor instead of slowing it down.

[quantumuppercut]

Good point about polarization and delay model.

I think they define reluctance similar to resistance. Magnetize material have low reluctance compare to air and vacuum. They didn't mention anything about time though. It's good to know if there is a time delay in materials. I'm pretty sure it does. If we say it's the speed of light, I don't think the rotor speed we're having now will cut it. So if we going to model this way, the delay time must be a lot.

[marxist]

It's good to know if there is a time delay in materials.

Yes, there is.
The way Physicists "explain" this in tech jargon is:
Reluctance of a material depends on the permeability of the material.
An when we look up Permeability (electromagnetism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia we find:

...While at low frequencies in a linear material the magnetic field [in that material, i.e. in the core] and the auxiliary magnetic field [that is the field of the magnet] are simply proportional to each other through some scalar permeability, at high frequencies these quantities will react to each other with some lag time

And such an interaction with delay (or call it phase shift), can lead to an effect like in the old movies, when the stage-coach with the big cart wheels leaves the town in the Wild West.
The eye reacts with delay to the images and at a certain rpm of the coach's wheels, one can clearly see these wheels spin backwards while the coach actually moves forward.
The spinning backwards may be VIRTUAL (and not "real"), but how can you know what is real? You get nausea.
Please note: You know reality, because you can observe it. And you can clearly observe the wheels going backwards. Imagine you are a magnet with limited intelligence. What would be your reality? What would you react to? To the "virtual reality" which you can clearly observe, i.e. measure? Or to "real reality" (which is nowhere to be seen)?

[quantumuppercut]

Nice,

I just thought of something that may see the delay/phase shift . We can compare the time of a complete cycle vs RPM. If they are in phase, then the ratio time/RPM must be constant. We can plot this out by sweeping RPM and graph it.

[Shadesz]

Newbie question...

Is a cycle time considered the time it takes for the magnets effect to start and stop affecting the coil? Or is it the time it takes for the start of one cycle to the start of another cycle? Just trying to get my head around basic terminology. Thanks in advance