How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[Asad Farooqui]

waste plastic washing .

Jet said in the beginning of this forum that the process took about 4 hours. Is this amont of time directly corralated to the size of his specific reactor and volume of shredded plastic that he was able to load in? In other words, would I be shooting myself in the foot by making solid cubes (trying to get as much plastic in as possible) with no air space for the plastic to melt more easily and turn into gas? I realize that it all eventually turns into a solid blob when fully melted inside the reactor.

Hello Tony ;
1) Time to heat you reactor largely depends on the Size of your reactor & the heating method you employ.
On top of it which metal U fabricate your reactor ???
This week I made a new small lab-scale puro unit of 10-Liter capacity only.
I used Stainless steel Not mild steel for fabricating the reactor .
It took half the time to heat-Up the plastic than a Mild/Steel one .

2) Washing plastic waste is the best way . You take all the waste plastic dip it in a water bath . all the dirst & UN-WANTED plastic will SINK down.
Only the IDEALY-required plastic type FLOATS on top .

[imakebiodiesel]

My little 500gm reactor processes in about 1 hour, and about half that time is heating up. A bigger reactor is going to take longer but there is no way of predicting exactly how long it will take. There are too many variables, output of heat source, efficiency of the heat transfer, formation of char inside the reactor, insulation values, efficiency of the reflux column etc. You just have to build it and see.

[Jetijs]

Hello Tony ;
1) Time to heat you reactor largely depends on the Size of your reactor & the heating method you employ.
On top of it which metal U fabricate your reactor ???
This week I made a new small lab-scale puro unit of 10-Liter capacity only.
I used Stainless steel Not mild steel for fabricating the reactor .
It took half the time to heat-Up the plastic than a Mild/Steel one .

2) Washing plastic waste is the best way . You take all the waste plastic dip it in a water bath . all the dirst & UN-WANTED plastic will SINK down.
Only the IDEALY-required plastic type FLOATS on top .

Hi Asad!
Congrats on your new lab scale unit. Would it be possible for us to see that thing in pictures?
Thank you for all you work!
Jetijs

[Asad Farooqui]

My Lab unit

Hi Asad!
Congrats on your new lab scale unit. Would it be possible for us to see that thing in pictures?
Thank you for all you work!
Jetijs

Hello Jetijs ;
Atlast i saw your sweet face .
Well why not I will paste a picture & will try to make a video of it & send a link .
There are couple of simple things more you will like .

Secondly I have just doubled the capacity of my 100-gallon reactor .
The new reactor is just heated by hotair by tubes placed INSIDE the reactor, NOT outside .
No electric heaters etc .Hopefully the temerature will reach to 400 ceclius in about 3-hours .

[Jetijs]

The tube idea sounds great. Some older high capacity water heaters might be easily modified to suit plastic pyrolysis. This is indeed some food for thought
Thanks,
Jetijs

[jimmyx1000]

What kind of smell will there be when making Fuel

Hi All

i was thinking about setting up fuel making in my garden,
and am worried about the neighbours noticing the plastic smells

when im running the pyrolysis process can somebody tell me what
kind of smell will it produce, will the neighbours notice, is it bad,

i was thinking about using feedstock of

polypropylene
polyethylene
waste motor oil

thankyou

Jimmyx

[Asad Farooqui]

Smell

Hi All
when im running the pyrolysis process can somebody tell me what
kind of smell will it produce, will the neighbours notice, is it bad,
thankyou

Jimmyx

Hello Jimmy ;
Non-condensable vapors produce gases .
If your reactor size is about 10-liter, than there would be not much gas produced .
Lowest gas produced is by WMO, than PE than PP .

PS emits a very punjent smell of styrene try to avoid it .

[dutchdivco]

Whats a good price, for plastic?

I found a local source, for Shredded "Closed cell"Polyethylene Foam, in either 'cross linked' or 'non-cross linked'. Any idea which is preferred, as it appears I have my choice. Price is just under $1/Lb; anyone can tell me if this is a 'good' price?

Nother source, can by similar product, in 'bales' of scrap pieces, for $60 for
150Lb. bale.

Shredded would be more desirable, but more expensive, of coarse.

Makes sense that stainless would be better, because less energy used in heating up the metal; more energy going to melting plastic. Too bad they don't make water heaters out of stainless ;-(.

Am also considering heating from the inside, and would like to see/hear more about that. My plan (currently) is to use an old 50-60 gal.gas water heater tank, layed sideways, for my reactor. Run the exhaust from a genset into the central 'chimney' to heat, and use the high temp ceramic pipe I posted about earlier, as insulation on the outside of the H2o heater. Then, turn the exhaust vertical, and run thru a second, smaller H20 heater, insulated with the smaller size high temp pipe; this would be filled with material to promote condensation of any still liquid material (marbles, etc.) Said liquid would drain back to the reactor.

Then, vapor would go thru a catalist chamber, and to 3 condenser tanks; the first 2 would be heated by electric band heaters, with thermostats, and running off the electricity produced by the genset. The third would be inside a small old RV propane refrigerator. Then, the remaining vapor would go to a methane digester type holding tank; with swithes to turn on my 'compressors' when the small barrel raises up, and turn off when it gets low. The compressors would be firstly a refigerator compressor, followed by an 'oxygen concentrator' with the zeolite filter removed. Then it would go to a high pressure carbon fiber LPG tank I have, which is rated at like,....25,000 psi.

Obviously, after the reactor I would include a pressure relief valve, forgot to mention that.Anyway, mainly wondering whats a 'good price' to pay for plastic, and what kind of 'yield' I can expect (roughly) in order to detirmine what is a 'good price' for the plastic. Anybody have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines? Jim

[sikander999]

My first success

Hello to all,

I am vijay from India.I read all the posts right from the beginning.Though i tried first time to convert plastic to fuel 2 weeks before but that time I just got some 1-2 kg of plastic in to an 4 Lt paint bin.But was not able to make it air tight(oxygen free) so just stopped the process as soon as I got some 10-20 ml for liquid fuel of it.Next time I tried this last week with an 25lt paint drum.I got 2 broken moulded chairs and 2-3 water buckets(of course broken ones) total weight of the plastic was 6 kg .I used an old model used kerosene stove(which I got after too much of searching as its sort of rare these days).After almost 1 hour I saw some steam coming out of the cap of the drum I seald with an sealant.After that though a lot of somke(or may be vapours)started coming out from the bottle filled with water but even after some 5-51/2 hours I was not able to get a drop of fuel in to water bottle.But as I replaced the kerosene stove with an LPG gas burner (for commercial purpose) I start getting fuel after some 5 mins.and with in next 2 hours I got around 1 lt of liquid fuel.And then I stopped the gas burner and I took the pipe that I put in to the water bottle out of it and just then I felt that the paint drum is going to blow off and I ran down the stairs and the paint drum which I used as my heating vessel got down from the burner stand and a lot of steam coming out of the condensing pipe with a lot of pressure.The paint which was flat from top and bottom got swollen from both the ends.I am posting the pictures of the drum after the incidence.
Also attached are the pictures of the fuel I got.

[sikander999]

My first success

Here are the pictures of the fuel after 1 day.Color changed from yellow to brown.If some one could help me find my mistake that made this pressure inside the vessel even though I shut down the gas burner first and later I took the condenser pipe from the water bottle.Thanks for any help.Also tell me if I can use car and bikes mudguards and also if I can use the plastic which is recycled too many times(think sort of black jerry can with out any shin on the outer surface) I am asking this as the price for PE and PP is high enough and if the above items are OK to use then I think I can get it at an affordable cost.

Regards
Vijay

[tony steinke]

I found a local source, for Shredded "Closed cell"Polyethylene Foam, in either 'cross linked' or 'non-cross linked'. Any idea which is preferred, as it appears I have my choice. Price is just under $1/Lb; anyone can tell me if this is a 'good' price?

Nother source, can by similar product, in 'bales' of scrap pieces, for $60 for
150Lb. bale.

Shredded would be more desirable, but more expensive, of coarse.

Makes sense that stainless would be better, because less energy used in heating up the metal; more energy going to melting plastic. Too bad they don't make water heaters out of stainless ;-(.

Am also considering heating from the inside, and would like to see/hear more about that. My plan (currently) is to use an old 50-60 gal.gas water heater tank, layed sideways, for my reactor. Run the exhaust from a genset into the central 'chimney' to heat, and use the high temp ceramic pipe I posted about earlier, as insulation on the outside of the H2o heater. Then, turn the exhaust vertical, and run thru a second, smaller H20 heater, insulated with the smaller size high temp pipe; this would be filled with material to promote condensation of any still liquid material (marbles, etc.) Said liquid would drain back to the reactor.

Then, vapor would go thru a catalist chamber, and to 3 condenser tanks; the first 2 would be heated by electric band heaters, with thermostats, and running off the electricity produced by the genset. The third would be inside a small old RV propane refrigerator. Then, the remaining vapor would go to a methane digester type holding tank; with swithes to turn on my 'compressors' when the small barrel raises up, and turn off when it gets low. The compressors would be firstly a refigerator compressor, followed by an 'oxygen concentrator' with the zeolite filter removed. Then it would go to a high pressure carbon fiber LPG tank I have, which is rated at like,....25,000 psi.

Obviously, after the reactor I would include a pressure relief valve, forgot to mention that.Anyway, mainly wondering whats a 'good price' to pay for plastic, and what kind of 'yield' I can expect (roughly) in order to detirmine what is a 'good price' for the plastic. Anybody have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines? Jim

Hi dutchdivco, I am looking at about $80 for a 1500 lb. bale of post consumer pp and ldpe mix. This comes right out of the recycle collecting truck, gets sorted and then baled (no washing of any kind). I am going to attempt to build a reactor large enough to load the entire bale at once. The bales are 3.5 ft x 3.5 ft x 5 ft. Does anyone foresee a problem with my plan thusfar?

[dutchdivco]

First and foremost; SAFETY

sikander, this is what you missed, in reading the posts on this thread. AND, use a "pressure relief valve" on your reactor. The vapor should be at low pressure; your reactor almost exploding (you came close!) was because of a build-up of pressure; you don't want that to happen, which is why you use a pressure relief valve; you can get one off of a water heater. Also, DON'T do this in your basement; best to do it out in the open, with plenty of ventilation, and no flamable structures nearby.

On the big bales; much better price than what I've found! Although I haven't inquired as to larger quantities. Might consider what I wrote earlier, about using a trash compactor to compress wet paper (waste paper, shredded) to make big "briquets" which could be used to cook your big bales. Just a thought,..Gonna need a lot of heat, to heat up a reactor with 1 or more of those bales in it. Jim

[tony steinke]

Here are the pictures of the fuel after 1 day.Color changed from yellow to brown.If some one could help me find my mistake that made this pressure inside the vessel even though I shut down the gas burner first and later I took the condenser pipe from the water bottle.Thanks for any help.Also tell me if I can use car and bikes mudguards and also if I can use the plastic which is recycled too many times(think sort of black jerry can with out any shin on the outer surface) I am asking this as the price for PE and PP is high enough and if the above items are OK to use then I think I can get it at an affordable cost.

Regards
Vijay

Hi Vijay, I am new to this also and certainly not an expert, but from your photo it would appear that your exit pipe from the vessel is far too small and it looks like it has a kink in the bend. Lots of pressure can build when the exit is too small. Also, too much heat too quickly and in one spot can cause a parabolic spike in gases created (pressure). It's kind of like yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre. Another thing to consider is the creation of a kiln like environment with two levels of steel plates (separated by 2 inches of space) over the flame. The lower level would impart the flame and the upper level would serve as a platform for your vessel. This would help even out the heat inside the kiln. Notice how Jet installed several small spaced out heaters rather than one large one (like your fire). Steel changes at the molecular level everytime it is heated and cooled, so over a longer period of time you may be putting undue stress on the bottom and sides of your can with direct contact of the flame. Also, the exit pipe is pointing upward, meaning that more quickly condensed vapors may have been fighting gravity and going back down into the reactor. Just a guess.

[tony steinke]

Here are the pictures of the fuel after 1 day.Color changed from yellow to brown.If some one could help me find my mistake that made this pressure inside the vessel even though I shut down the gas burner first and later I took the condenser pipe from the water bottle.Thanks for any help.Also tell me if I can use car and bikes mudguards and also if I can use the plastic which is recycled too many times(think sort of black jerry can with out any shin on the outer surface) I am asking this as the price for PE and PP is high enough and if the above items are OK to use then I think I can get it at an affordable cost.

Regards
Vijay

I forgot to specificly answer your question as to why there was still pressure after turning off the burner. The temperature we want to achieve is 400 c. By placing the reactor directly on the flame, the bottom probably turned red hot, so even though you turned off the burner, the bottom was still supercooking your stock thus creating the parabolic spike in gases. I've seen people on youtube cooking directly over a flame but they are using a much thicker vessel. This in my opinion is still dangerous.

[dutchdivco]

Again

You need to put a "pressure relief valve" in the system; you can scavage one off an old water heater. All of the points posted above are valid, as well. Bear in mind this SHOULD be a LOW pressure system; The vapor should NOT be at high prsessures; thats why you have a "Pressure relief valve", so that if it DOES develop high pressures, the relief valve vents the gas, relieving the pressure, before something blows up, maybe killing/injuring you or others, and destroying your house, (which is why you DON'T want to be doing this in your basement! Another reason is because SHOULD you develop high pressure, this pressure relief valve has to vent the FLAMABLE gas to the APTNOSPHERE, NOT into the enclosed space of your basement, where it can be ignited by the flame your using to heat your reactor.)

PLEASE,PLEASE re-think your whole design! Start at the begining, and design it from scratch, incorporating SAFETY as a prime consideration! I realise you are working on a very limited budget, but blowing yourself up is not going to benefit you or anyone else. And, it will also give this very do-able technology a bad name, and cause laws/regulations to be enacted, which will prevent home experimenters/ do-it-yourselfers from being able to develop this technology, and restrict it to being 'exploited' by the big corporations.

So, don't be selfish,shortsighted, harm yourself and others, and give us and this technology a bad name! "Short cuts make for long delays".

This may seem harsh, but you have been both incredibly lucky and incredibly stupid, in your experiments, so far. Your posting questions about the color of the product produced leads me to the conclusion that you still don't grasp just how close you came! And, this was totally FORESEEABLE, because although you say you read this whole thread, you obviously didn't get several key concepts which ARE in this thread.

If you want to compete for the Darwin awards, (and take yourself out of the gene pool), be my guest, but PLEASE find some other method! Jim