Ongoing "Radiant" Discussion

[Guruji]

Oscillator

Hi Farmhand interesting what you're doing. I have a joule thief running on a 7v 500ma to my bank separate from another panel which is giving around 11watts. After a drop in voltage for about 3 weeks now my bank is getting to back on charge again amazing. John Bedini said the truth that after several charges with radiant pulses internal resistance changes of batteries and batteries begin to be charged faster.
Thanks

[Farmhand]

G'day Guruji, I have some wire and stuff coming soon so I plan to make a joule thief to try, also a stingo, I would like to find a way to force the SCR to commutate without the oscillator, but knowing very little of electronics it's all discovery for me.

John Bedini said the truth that after several charges with radiant pulses internal resistance changes of batteries and batteries begin to be charged faster.

Good to hear your bank is responding. I don't think a man as wise as John Bedini would invest so much time and effort into battery restoring and charging if he did not see it as very important.

Another thing I tried last night was what I think nvisser posted somewhere a little while ago, that is protection diodes for SG or SS Bedini transistors, I used 1n4148 ultra fast signal diodes (breakdown voltage 75 volts I think from memory) between collector and emmitter, anode to emitter cathode to collector, I think the idea is if there is a charging battery dissconnect or the battery is very bad any reflected spikes can be dissapated by the reverse conduction of the diode's in breakdown mode. It seems to work I notice on the scope that the unabsorbed spikes that were reaching 55 volts while connected to a battery are now reduced to 35 or so, I put one on my SSG as well, i won't know for sure until i get an accidental disconnect. The three transistor oscillator has already ruined the center transistor once from a disconnect, the mje3055's are only rated to 60 - 70 v. They are cheap but who wants to change them out all the time.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Oh hehe I drew the zener back to front on the diagram, again , had to fix it.

[SeaMonkey]

Hi Seamonkey
What size battery can I desulfate with one such small unit with a 250Uh coil.
Will I have to install one such a unit on every say 100Ah battery or will one unit be enough on a bank of parallel batteries.
Could I leave it on permanently on a set of batteries charged by a solar regulator?
Thanks
Vissie

Very good questons Vissie.

One small desulfator will prove beneficial for even a
very large capacity lead acid battery. If the battery
is in relatively good condition to begin with then the
benefits will be near immediate. If the battery is
heavily sulfated then it will take some amount of time
to fully reverse it - the larger the capacity of the battery
the longer it will take.

Yes, the desulfator may be permanently installed across
a battery. When I do that I add a small toggle switch
to turn the pulses ON or OFF in order to provide some
control. I'll modify one of the diagrams to show how to
install such a switch for those who may want to include
it.

Desulfating batteries which are parallel connected isn't
as effective as dealing with individual batteries; the
battery/batteries that are in best condition will tend to
"hog" the pulses and prevent the batteries that need
them most from receiving full spike energy.

It is possible though to desulfate batteries which are
series connected.

[penno64]

Hi all,

Farmhand, how is it you are able to get positive goinig spikes in your waveforms.

All my stuff (stingo, bedini etc) gives me massive negative spikes and I am
never sure whether I a pumping back into batteries or caps the right thing.

Any help appreciated.

Kind Regards, Penno

[Guruji]

Neon

G'day Guruji, I have some wire and stuff coming soon so I plan to make a joule thief to try, also a stingo, I would like to find a way to force the SCR to commutate without the oscillator, but knowing very little of electronics it's all discovery for me.



Good to hear your bank is responding. I don't think a man as wise as John Bedini would invest so much time and effort into battery restoring and charging if he did not see it as very important.

Another thing I tried last night was what I think nvisser posted somewhere a little while ago, that is protection diodes for SG or SS Bedini transistors, I used 1n4148 ultra fast signal diodes (breakdown voltage 75 volts I think from memory) between collector and emmitter, anode to emitter cathode to collector, I think the idea is if there is a charging battery dissconnect or the battery is very bad any reflected spikes can be dissapated by the reverse conduction of the diode's in breakdown mode. It seems to work I notice on the scope that the unabsorbed spikes that were reaching 55 volts while connected to a battery are now reduced to 35 or so, I put one on my SSG as well, i won't know for sure until i get an accidental disconnect. The three transistor oscillator has already ruined the center transistor once from a disconnect, the mje3055's are only rated to 60 - 70 v. They are cheap but who wants to change them out all the time.

Cheers

Hi Farmhand I am an amatuer in electronics too but with others help and thanks to this forum I managed to build 3 solid state bedini's ;JT's and other devices.
Regarding the problem that you were telling why don't you do a neon with the Collector and Emitter of every transistor as bedini motors for transistor protection?
Thanks

[Farmhand]

Regarding the problem that you were telling why don't you do a neon with the Collector and Emitter of every transistor as bedini motors for transistor protection?

I do use neons though on my bike wheel it doesn't seem to help much, it might be the dodgy neons i'm using or that I run it on 24 v, also if the wheel is started with no output bat the pulses are very strong low frequency, on the SS I only have one for three transistors on the output bus. Diodes are cheaper too. But I did order 30 a couple of days ago NE 2's they come next week.

Ta.

[Farmhand]

Hi penno64,

Farmhand, how is it you are able to get positive goinig spikes in your waveforms.

I'm not sure, I did get some negative spikes on my mini three pole but it did charge prety good the negative spikes seemed to show up with a lot of base resistance. on my SS setup I have a 1k fixed resistor on the bases and a pot 5k.

Hope thats a help I missed your post before, so sorry. Glad to answer more if I can.

Regards.

P.S. Are these the type you mean kind of, the lower oscilation around the supply voltage? http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...003.JPG?psid=1

Or this one may show better what I was getting.http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...001.JPG?psid=1

[Farmhand]

All my stuff (stingo, bedini etc) gives me massive negative spikes and I am
never sure whether I a pumping back into batteries or caps the right thing.

The only problem I could see with the negative spikes is they may not pass the output diode if you have one. Not sure. maybe someone will clear that up I think i read that somewhere. What are you powering the device's from ? if a wall power supply try adding a 4000 uf 25v or similar capacitor to the power supply output. If a battery how was it charged ?

[Guruji]

Farmhand circuit

Hi Farmhand if one uses other normal diodes to that circuit would be ok? About those Caps did you find that would be better to use with solar panels?
Another thing if I us a JT instead of that oscillator would work?
Thanks

[Farmhand]

Hi Guruji,

Hi Farmhand if one uses other normal diodes to that circuit would be ok? About those Caps did you find that would be better to use with solar panels?
Another thing if I us a JT instead of that oscillator would work?
Thanks

Yeah any suitable diode's would be fine I just labeled what I used.

The same goes with the caps I found that up to a point the more capacitance the better , I used Samsung 15000 uf 35 WV, A lesser cap value would still work I think, just that the pulses would be faster and not quite so powerful it kinda depends on what you want, battery size, panel size and dump voltage. Just one cap works good.

Yes I think a Joule thief will work, I havn't tried it yet but I will it should work the same I imagine, anything that will pull holes in the supply line will work.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...N_3.JPG?psid=1

This is what a solid state oscilator does to the supply line, thats what causes the SCR to commutate. It can also trigger an SSG or SG to work without the rotor, here is a shot of the waveform from an SSG triggered by the supply line fluctuations or (holes) I call it "supply line triggering", it's very handy and also a pain sometimes.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...plt.JPG?psid=1

Please don't hesitate to ask me to clarify something, i will if I can.

Cheers

One thing I should clarify is that in the video the switch I was switching was to turn the oscillator off and on, not to switch the zener in and out. If the zener is switched out then in again the oscillator has to be turned off and on again to restart the cap dumping proper. I think I will refer to this method of pulsing a battery as "Current Washing" ; )

[Farmhand]

Pulling my hair out trying to work out how to get video from my video camera to my computer without a DV/firewire connection, hopefully my windows 7 disc will turn up today. %@*&@#$&*> arrrgg. i would like to make a better video to show a visual of how I have it set up. I'll have to use the picture camera video function, but the quality is awefull.

Somehow I think 55 watts is too much for this bad battery, it makes some funny noises at full power. The battery is now holding 6.5 volts when not under charge, so it's working.

I'm not game to leave it on solar full power all day, so I'll only do it for a couple of hours at morning and afternoon on part power till I have time to change it to only 20 watts of panels. I'll put it on the triple tranny Bedini during the middle of the day and at night.

My SCR (BT151)is only rated to 4 amperes as well I think and the pulses go over 5 amps. I have a 25 amp SCR on the way.

[Farmhand]

erfinder wrote,

.....what I have found that works and works really really well is when you modify the trigger circuit, contrary to popular belief the trigger circuit has an extremely large influence on the "quality" of the kickback produced by the power strand....I'm not ready to disclose how I modified my trigger circuit, but I do recommend that anyone with a tad bit of interest in this circuit try modifying this part of the circuit....tip....modify in this case means adding something that wasn't there before....it could be as simple as adding a single diode in the proper place....

Don't take this as a comment thats not backed up by trials....just look at the SG circuit, you know what will happen if you remove the base resistance, or if the base to emitter diode is removed....simple changes can net big changes in performance of the circuit....positive or negative....

I'm gonna take a stab at what I think this person could be talking about.

What would happen if I placed a 1n4007 diode between the base coil negative and the collector output bus ?

Surely there is some BEMF energy there to collect and if so it should improve the performance of the base circuit .

Any thoughts on that anyone ? I will try it tonight.

Cheers.

I've modified the attached drawing I found to reflect the changes i'll try, diode in red.

Well tried it and nothing happened I couldn't make any difference to the trigger with a diode, though I didn't put it in series at all, but I give up on that it works good enough for me as is.

[Guruji]

Caps

Farmhand those caps are charging from the solar panel or the oscillator?
I am trying to understand your circuit.
Thanks for your help.

[Farmhand]

Yeah they are charging from the solar panels, without the oscillator running the caps will fill to the battery voltage 6.4 v for me + zener voltage 9.1 v for me + gate trigger voltage 1 or 2 v + 1n5408 voltage drop .6 v, all up about 18 volts, the SCR will then trigger and dump the caps but it will keep conducting and the cap voltage wont rise back up to the same level again, it stays only one or two volts above the battery and no pulsing.

So the first diode after the panels isolates the panels from the caps and the second diode isolates the caps from the oscillator output so that the oscillator out put goes to the battery basically, So when the oscillator is switched on while the circuit is already operating it forces the SCR to switch off by its pulses which then allows the caps to refill to the correct voltage of 18 volts before the SCR is triggered again. And the cycle repeats which gives pulses of a relative strength as fast as the panels can fill the caps.

When the oscillator is switched off, the circuit will charge the battery normally, with the caps a couple of volts above the battery voltage and to keep them charging in low light the zener should be jumpered out so the scr triggers initially at only a couple of volts above the battery voltage, in very low light and at dawn and dusk it pulses a weaker pulse by itself because the caps fill so slowly.

I have powered the oscillator from the caps it does work. I did stipulate in the drawing it should be a trifiler wound coil on the oscillator because a bedini bifiler oscillator has two positives for the output. A trifiler has a 0v and a Positive from the Bridge rectifier.

If you use a Bedini bifiler or similar with two positives on the output you can power it from the caps and don't worry about the negative output wire just connect the positive output wire to the positive of the circuit after the second diode. Its important not to connect the two positives of a bifiler output.

Hope i didn't waffle on too much, and answered your question.

My new operating system has arrived so will take me an hour or so to install it before i can return.

Cheers