Ongoing "Radiant" Discussion

[SeaMonkey]

Continuation of discussion which began in
another thread...

Attached is image of initial posting.

The discussion revolves around circuits which have
a certain level of current flow without any load.

Upon loading there is observed a decrease in
current flow.

What could cause a circuit to demonstrate a decrease
in current flow when a load is attached?

[gotoluc]

The Radiant Circuits to which I refer are indeed
battery charging or rejuvenating circuits.

The Inductor is heavy wire with a very small DC
resistance. Inductance (ferrite or powdered iron)
ranging from 100 uH to 500 uH.

The Pulse Width has been "tuned" to maximize
the energy content of the Radiant Spike.

Each Radiant Spike is capable of delivering more
than 30 Amperes to the battery being charged
or rejuvenated. In some cases the intensity of
the Spike can approach 100 Amperes.

This is with a MosFet circuit powered by a 12 Volt
source.

Hello SeaMonkey,

I started experimenting about 4 years ago (with no background in electronics). I mostly learned from my experiments.

I've pulsed all kinds of coils over the years and always posted video's of the more interesting stuff. I cannot say that I ever got any good results in using a pulsed coil Inductive flyback to charge a good size battery like 110AH Marine Deep Cycle battery.

I've been away from my lab this spring & summer restoring and now recently enjoying a 23 foot long Pearson sailboat that I bought for $350 which had been written off.

One thing I decided to get for the boat is a new 50 watts Solar panel ($150.) to charge the above battery. I must say it's doing a great job and is the best money spent that has given me free power out of the box compared to all the hundreds of dollars of stuff I bought for my experiments . However, I'm sure the battery will start to sulfate and start to loose it's charge capacity over time.

With this said, I was thinking of a circuit that would charge the battery without sulfating it. Since the solar panel has a variable voltage and current output, maybe a capacitive discharge into the coil would be the better approach to take. However, like I said above, I never had much luck with this charging large batteries.

What do you think or know about it?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[theremart]

RE: Circuit for boat charger.

Luc,

I must say I also have spent $$ for copper, transistors resistors etc, and so far the best charge I have tested is the Jetjis charger for larger batteries ( my golf cart batteries )

But if I was to make a suggestion to you, it is very very hard to beat this device ->

Amazon.com: HQRP 10 Amp 12V / 24V Solar Charge Power Controller / Regulator 10A 150W with LED Indicator plus HQRP Coaster: Gateway


I have it hooked up to about 3 amp 12V input and it charges up the batteries to 14.3 then sends spike charge to the batteries. The setup is cheap, does not over charge, and gives a spike that reduces sulfation.


I often hook up my small 12 amp hour battery to this bank and it is marvellous to not have to think about the batteries but let the controller do all the work for me. For $30.00 a real winner.

[gotoluc]

Luc,

I must say I also have spent $$ for copper, transistors resistors etc, and so far the best charge I have tested is the Jetjis charger for larger batteries ( my golf cart batteries )

But if I was to make a suggestion to you, it is very very hard to beat this device ->

Amazon.com: HQRP 10 Amp 12V / 24V Solar Charge Power Controller / Regulator 10A 150W with LED Indicator plus HQRP Coaster: Gateway


I have it hooked up to about 3 amp 12V input and it charges up the batteries to 14.3 then sends spike charge to the batteries. The setup is cheap, does not over charge, and gives a spike that reduces sulfation.


I often hook up my small 12 amp hour battery to this bank and it is marvellous to not have to think about the batteries but let the controller do all the work for me. For $30.00 a real winner.

Hi theremart,

thanks for posting your findings. Can you post the link to Jetjis charger.

5 days ago I bought from eBay what looks to be a similar controller as you have: eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

I was wondering if just pulses are enough to keep the battery desulfated? maybe one could place an inductor in line and use its Inductive flyback to desulfate?

I bought 3 of them so I could experiment.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[Aaron]

upscale it

I cannot say that I ever got any good results in using a pulsed coil Inductive flyback to charge a good size battery like 110AH Marine Deep Cycle battery.

Luc, if you scale up for example an SSG and use multiple windings like 18AWG
like 4 power windings and 1 trigger winding and each is about 100 feet long,
you'll see the results. All on one coil for example and take all the spikes from
the bottom of the coil (collector) and put them all to the same battery...

That is if you have only been doing smaller wire and single turns with
one transistor for example.

Anyway, makes a big difference when scaling them up.

[ren]

Aarons right

For a big battery you need some decent current flowing in your coil when you disconnect. I have a quadfilar with 1 ohm on all the windings (AWG 18) and it charges so much better than any other charger I have built.

I remember Jetijs and Theremart playing around with theirs a while ago, and if Im not mistaken it was using multiple lengths of thicker gauge in a solidstate configuration.

You could use, say 10 x 100ft of AWG 18 (Ive even used 2mm thick wire) all on a single coil with say a bike wheel rotor and I think you would get some good results. I think it is important to emulate the trickle charge too, I would always run my device at a efficient setting until the battery peaks at 14.5v, then increase the base resistance till the terminal voltage dropped to 13ish. Leave it there to slowly increase for as long as possible.

SeaMonkey recently posted a solidstate charger on another thread that I was interested in too. Worth a look. But I cant remember where it was Maybe he could post a link again.

Regards

[Jetijs]

Hi all.
Just to clarify, this is not my circuit, it is just John Bedini's solid state circuit without some resistors, which I found worked better than everything else I tried before to desulphate a battery. The current draw is controlled by only one high power resistor. The bigger batteries you need to charge, the smaller nominal resistor needs to be. Here is the circuit I used:


Here is the thing in real life:


Very simple and reliable. Also, the coils need to be air cored, works better that way.

[gotoluc]

Thanks Aaron and Ren for your replies and suggestions.

@Aaron, I'm not sure I understand how one can "take all the spikes from
the bottom of the coil (collector)"

@Ren, looks like SeaMonkey is right on low DC resistance on the coil will give a better output. I wonder what Inductance value does?

Also, I would only be interested in a solid state unit.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi all.
Just to clarify, this is not my circuit, it is just John Bedini's solid state circuit without some resistors, which I found worked better than everything else I tried before to desulphate a battery. The current draw is controlled by only one high power resistor. The bigger batteries you need to charge, the smaller nominal resistor needs to be. Here is the circuit I used:


Here is the thing in real life:


Very simple and reliable. Also, the coils need to be air cored, works better that way.

Thanks Jetijs,

so you are also concluding that 4 power coils is the way to go.

So this circuit starts to oscillate when you turn on the switch? What transistor model did you use?

You have not given any details on your coils. Are the strands twisted together or is each coil winding on top of each other? wire gauge, length, center opening size, amount of turns, resistance and inductance.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Added: again, I wounder what role inductance plays in this I also see that you have 5 transistors in your live picture. Can you explain. Thanks

[Aaron]

multi strands

Are the strands twisted together or is each coil winding on top of each other?

Luc,

Exactly what Jetijs showed in that schematic.

I should have clarified, but you see the 4 diodes - each one leaving
the bottom of each winding where they attach to the collector of
each of the transistors - put all 4 spikes to the + of the battery you
are charging.

All 5 windings (trigger and 4 power windings) can be twisted together
and then wound around the core as one rope of wire consisting
of 5 strands. Just make sure you start with a spool that is big enough so
you don't go past the spool ends.

[theremart]

Wow, try to give advice, and you learn more back :-)

Hi theremart,

thanks for posting your findings. Can you post the link to Jetjis charger.

5 days ago I bought from eBay what looks to be a similar controller as you have: eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

I was wondering if just pulses are enough to keep the battery desulfated? maybe one could place an inductor in line and use its Inductive flyback to desulfate?

I bought 3 of them so I could experiment.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Please let me know if that works well for you as for $20.00 that is much better than what I did. :-)

I don't believe this charge controller can desulfate as well or as deep as a custom charger made to desulfate, but it sure can stop a battery from regressing back after you have gone thru the trouble of conditioning it.

The larger charge controllers like my Morningstar one can create interference with radio stations because of the strong pulses. I believe this might have enough kick to do the job for a larger set of batteries.

I am new to all of this solar charge controllers, just got started in the last year but slowly I am finding out what works.

It does help to be on 2 yahoo off grid groups, those guys know from real life what works.

[sucahyo]

Upon loading there is observed a decrease in current flow.

What could cause a circuit to demonstrate a decrease in current flow when a load is attached?

Anyone also have a circuit that do that please raise your hand.

My circuit will change its frequency with load. Different load different frequency.

[Ecoman11]

This coil I've been working on can pulse itself. I have a method of designing the coil to self-regulate the current and pulse time (no transistor or 555 timer). This one only works at 6V but i'll be working on a 12V soon. I'll post vids when I get it working properly.



Ecoman

[Farmhand]

Hi Sucahyo and all,

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMonkey
Upon loading there is observed a decrease in current flow.

What could cause a circuit to demonstrate a decrease in current flow when a load is attached?

Anyone also have a circuit that do that please raise your hand.

My circuit will change its frequency with load. Different load different frequency.

I have a circuit that does that, it's a small bedini single transistor solid state like Jetijs but with the other resistors still in. It uses 220 mA air cored a bit more with wire core, but if the load is diconnected the draw goes right up to 550 mA or more from memory. If I try to use it with a cap discharger the draw goes up to it's highest, it gains about 20 Ma I think, about when the cap is discharging.

I can see it because I used 60 000 uf to watch it happen, Kabango 3 Amps . I felt sorry for the little battery.
I put it down to the cap not being able to take the spikes full potential when so full or disconnected briefly. My bike wheel SSG does the same when disconnected and destroys it's transistor diode I think In about 20 spikes. Done 2 MJL21194's like that running with 24volts. I like your circuit but i can't understand it yet fully, but your last picture in the other thread will help me thanks.

Cheers.

[sucahyo]

I have a circuit that does that, it's a small bedini single transistor solid state like jetsis but with the other resistors still in. It uses 220 mA air cored a bit more with wire core, but if the load is diconnected the draw goes right up to 550 mA or more from memory. If I try to use it with a cap discharger the draw goes up to it's highest, it gains about 20 Ma I think, about when the cap is discharging.

My standard joule thief consume more with load while my modified joule thief consume less with load.

Can you post your circuit. Do your circuit do that anytime?

The problem I have with Seamonkey statement is he explain like all radiant circuit will do that while I believe that only applies to 1% of it. Until today I still never see timer driven radiant circuit that consume less with load.

I never have problem running my circuit without load because I need my circuit to make spark too, I run it up to 1.5 Amp.