my take on the SSG motor

[raff]

Hi Guys,

Finally I can POST!

Never had a clue what a Bedini motor was (kinda googling about "floating heatsinks" <hovering,diamagnetism,levitation>) when this subject apeared on one of the lists at utube...

I saw imhoteps video on making a simple ssg using PC fan, looked simple enough to build w/o spending too much, besides I had all the parts laying around so I did give it a go

>>>here is the modified PC fan, guts(electronics) removed and made connections for 4th wire...just making to make it work, and it did! though I did not make ANY charging connections, jusdt wanted to make it run..

>>>2nd and 3rd pic is another motor.. rotor coil used was from a cheap "grip" type dynamo LED light... originally it was just a single coil, estimated to be awg #30, maybe about 0.3 ohm DCR, then wound another coil OVER the main coil, for feedback.. estimated awg#45(it was just laying around my bench)... well, it worked also.. this time I hooked a diode so I could extract the BackEMF.. connected it to a 12V PS(was taking 50-60mA input), the "charging" output was 40mA max (and could sting you if your hands where wet, if you had to hold it )... tried placing a 1uF/600V cap AFTER the rectifier diode, and YEP it stores about 150Vdc and gives a nice spark when shorted..

so basically, 12V 50-60mA input ->>> 150Vdc 40mA output , not bad I think for a first timer

another thing I have noticed, when I charge a battery, the spinning lowers BUT input current STILL stays at 50-60mA...

another TEST, I SHORTED the charging terminals, IT STILL IS ROTATING.. WOW and still just eating 50-60mA...

>>>now here is another motor I hope to use.. its from a sony tape head motor... it has 2 sets of coils (they are wired ACROSS each other)...
my question:
#1>I was thinking, would I just SERIES connect this coil as MAIN coil? for the feedback Im just going to wind a VERY thin wire over the existing ones

#2>If I wire the other coil (as slave, and add br diode), would it still output the same BEMF as the primary coil with "tapped" output<for charging>?

#3> or what is best to do here? 2 sets of coil.. my goal is I could recharge the main battery AND should also have a "charging" for another battery...

thanks!

[raff]

here is another image of the coil/s... it has ferrite ring in it...

[sucahyo]

>>>2nd and 3rd pic is another motor.. rotor coil used was from a cheap "grip" type dynamo LED light... originally it was just a single coil, estimated to be awg #30, maybe about 0.3 ohm DCR, then wound another coil OVER the main coil, for feedback.. estimated awg#45(it was just laying around my bench)... well, it worked also.. this time I hooked a diode so I could extract the BackEMF.. connected it to a 12V PS(was taking 50-60mA input), the "charging" output was 40mA max (and could sting you if your hands where wet, if you had to hold it )... tried placing a 1uF/600V cap AFTER the rectifier diode, and YEP it stores about 150Vdc and gives a nice spark when shorted..

so basically, 12V 50-60mA input ->>> 150Vdc 40mA output , not bad I think for a first timer

Nice build . However, that is not fair comparison. Even if you can charge capacitor up to 150V, it won't charge battery at that voltage. You need to test both current and voltage at the same time for each load.

When I charge 3V battery, the output current of my circuit is around 125mA, when charging broken 12V SLA, the output current is around 50mA. Output current will reduce, voltage will increase on higher impedance load.

But as it is now, your replication is much better than my solid state in term of efficiency .

answer #2:
From what I remember, you can add as many secondary as you want, each has their own transistor and recovery diode. all transistor is triggered by the same resistor.

[raff]

Hi,

I lack info on my setup..

Im using 100R at base of transistor... I measured the 150Vdc across a 1uF/630V cap RIGHT after the rectifier diode AND no load..so this makes it DC... the 40mA was measured using a 6V NiCad battery as "charging" load.. also charged a 1.2V NiCad, same 40mA charging current.. I have NOT yet charged a 12V SLA or any other type(not available at the moment)

[redeagle]

A cheap source for used sla batteries to attempt to recover is UPSs that no longer work. Also for companies that have emergency lighting and power backup for phone systems. they have to rotate they're SLAs because they no longer last long enough to keep the system running. Check you local recycling centers you might be able to score some freebies for reconditioning.

[sucahyo]

the 40mA was measured using a 6V NiCad battery as "charging" load.. also charged a 1.2V NiCad, same 40mA charging current.. I have NOT yet charged a 12V SLA or any other type(not available at the moment)

What is the amp value when you use amp meter as load?

It is interesting that you get the same output current on different load number. I usually have higher output current when charging nicad than when charging SLA. How long a 1.20V measured nicad charged to 1.40V? Using 150mA input at 12V my circuit charge two nicad in series in 2 hour. same amount of time when charging alkaline and NiMH.

[baroutologos]

Converting a motor to a pulsed one? Nice.

By the way, read and take measurments appropriately. OU is not that easy...
....

Have anyone try to solid state a large trnasformer (high Q value, closed magnetic circuit) for SSG setup?

Baroutologos

[raff]

What is the amp value when you use amp meter as load?

ammeter as LOAD? 40mA also...

I have moved to a 3rd motor (sony tape head) as posted in the later pictures... 2 windings.. first winding was used as primary coil, the other one, for feedback... it runs AND is power hungry ammeter AS LOAD = 140mA , 12V input from PS is 250mA (Im still using 100R for transistor base, using TIP31C)...

one thing I quickly noticed, IF I spin it one way, it has MORE top speed, but when spun the other way around, is SLOWER.. why is this so?

and also, I *sometimes* manage this thing to self-oscillate.. it whines (w/o motor turning) and can output at its "output" BUT transistor heats up A BIT, as compared to motor turning....

NOTE I still have not done ANY *real* measurements yet... will convert this one using master and slave coil, plus winding a new coil OVER one of the coils for feedback.. or maybe I can try using a reed switch as trigger ... and STILL need some experiment as the 2 coils are NOT wound on the same direction( I think)... oh and another question, would making it 2 coils(master & slave) make the motor EAT UP MORE on its input?

[sucahyo]

ammeter as LOAD? 40mA also...

That is weird. Are you sure that amp meter is connected in series with the load?

Sometimes SSG can self oscillate without the motor turning, the circuit has turn into joule thief like circuit.

I wish I could answer your other question, but I never do experiment with SSG myself.

For measurement try using battery charging time as indicator. Whether it is digital or analog , meter can give false value for output. See how long the circuit takes to fully charge a battery.

[raff]

That is weird. Are you sure that amp meter is connected in series with the load?

sucahyo,

were not syncing... LoL

that measurement was taken at the OUTPUT using JUST the meter AS LOAD(meter is set to 10A) so this also looks like a direct short of the output(well there is a shunt resistor internal of the meter)... with a NiCad battery in series with the ammeter, I still get same results.. maybe 40-49mA, not sure, meter shows 0.04 cant see the other digit..

regarding *real* measurements, it should have been REAL = current reading with regards to TIME .... I charged a single 0.8Volt Nicad to about 1.6V with my 2nd made motor in roughly 30minutes(with that 40mA current).. no conclusion yet.. just wanted to see if it DID charge... it was taking 60mA from my 12V power supply and giving off 40mA to the charging NiCad...

with a DIY motor, still have not done yet.. still sourcing magnets and a nice axle... for the axle, I was thinking maybe from a HDD platter holder.. or a milled mdf...

so basically, Im doing my SSG with modifying brushless fans ..

[sucahyo]

That is a very great result. See if you can charge alkaline too.

Can you post the diagram? is it exactly the same as original SSG?

I use qucs to draw my circuit.

[raff]

Hi again..

Sorry for the late reply.. been busy here and there.. the SG motor schematic? its STILL the simple one posted all over the internet...

have another question: I have found another one of those "grip LED lights" .. the 2nd motor posted on my posts, the "rotor" part holding the magnet is PLASTIC.. so this is MUCH lighter the the former... I will post pic...

does it MATTER I make the rotor lighter? or should I make it heavier? my former rotor WAS....

on the LEFT is the heavier rotor(magnet and holder ARE heavy)... RIGHT side, plastic HOLDER is lighter ..same magnet dimensions...

[sucahyo]

Thanks. It is amazing that different kind of coil can have such different result.

Many suggest the use of steel bycycle wheel for SSG. I guess using the heavier part should be OK. Unless heavy part add drag to the motor.

Metal part is safer if you intend to increase the rpm or power. No melt or worn out problem.

[citfta]

Steel bicycle wheel

You can not use a steel bicycle wheel for the SSG. I have built a couple of them in the last 2 years. The bicycle wheel must be something that will not be attracted to a magnet. Most successful SSG's use a stainless steel wheel, but you need to check first with a magnet to make sure it is a good quality stainless and not attracted to a magnet. A heavy plastic wheel or aluminum wheel will also work fine. Hope this helps, citfta.

[raff]

ok.. I will try using the lighter rotor (white)... anyways, I have removed the stock coil (awg#30?) and wound a newer one... awg#27 with 80 turns..and wound 100turns awg#35 for the feedback.. will test this SOON... I know this will consume MORE power since im using heavier gauge main coil (#27).... I should expect also MORE bemf from this...

laters...

EDIT:
just to let you guys know, the heavier rotor weighed at about 27grams.. and the METAL former(that held the magnet) was NOT magnetic.... it was just made to be heavy.... as for the plastic rotor, it was 17grams only...

EDIT2:
=====
I have NOT used my rewound coil because it wont run..well, it does, for just a few seconds then it stops... very weak RPM... DCR of coil too low (about 7 ohms) ..... my first "untouched" coil measured about 26 ohms.... and 12ohms feedback... so I just used the old coil and tried the plastic rotor.. guess what, same input current (60mA)... BUT output is around maybe 50-55mA(the heavy rotor was only around 40mA)... wow! so rotor being lighter DOES help...faster RPM too... I did not modify anything, just used a lighter rotor..