Donald L Smith

[dragon]

QUOTE=dragon;79625]Does anyone know what book these diagrams came from? Does anyone have the formula's associated with these diagrams?

Thanks in advance for any help in solving this...

If you do not have it, I'll put it here for everyone.
Tesla transverse and longitudinal electric waves[

If anyone can answer Dragons question I am sure we all could thank you.
The question was this.
Dragon stated,"I was looking for a more specific answer to the exponential feedback, specifically the formula's shown on that page, that can't be read, below each of the examples. I'm still searching for the book or any information leading to those specific formula's."....

I am with you Dragon this sounds to me like one of the major secrets needed.
It looks to me like a way to make somthing great out of somthing small.

h2ocommuter[/QUOTE]

Actually, thanks to armagdn03 here on the board ,set me on the right path for discovery. He explained it as a Parametric oscillator, by putting in a little energy each time the amplitude of oscillations grow - similar to that of a child on a swing.

The main reason it caught my attention in Don's video is I had run into that from experiments in the past although I didn't understand what I was seeing at the time.

Wiki explains it better than I can....
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Vaporizers

[h2ocommuter]

Link to Eric Dollare video of Longitudinal wave production

QUOTE=dragon;79625]Does anyone know what book these diagrams came from? Does anyone have the formula's associated with these diagrams?

Thanks in advance for any help in solving this...[/QUOTE]

First one is normal ringdown,second is normal resonance.
The last one is normal longitudinal wave production - it's now called exponential feedback resonance and it's carefully messed up in scientific papers to not let people figure out ...

If you do not have it, I'll put it here for everyone.
Tesla transverse and longitudinal electric waves[

If anyone can answer Dragons question I am sure we all could thank you.
The question was this.
Dragon stated,"I was looking for a more specific answer to the exponential feedback, specifically the formula's shown on that page, that can't be read, below each of the examples. I'm still searching for the book or any information leading to those specific formula's."....

I am with you Dragon this sounds to me like one of the major secrets needed.
It looks to me like a way to make somthing great out of somthing small.

h2ocommuter

[amigo]

So the GDT (surge arrestor) is leading off back to the center tap of the NST, which is incidently connected to the ground?

Back to the GDTs, I have found an interesting statement in a patent (US 5,617,284; page 7, 2nd column, line 29 on) that says:

Furthermore, another commonly used component is the gas discharge tube (GDT). Such a device operates very slowing and ignores fast rise time transients. It also has the disturbing characterstic of remaining shorted until all current has been removed. Thus, it typically turns a transient surge into a total loss of power and a tripped circuit breaker.

Poder that for a bit...

On the same note, after reading some datasheets on them, I am not sure if GDT would make good spark gaps as they would not last long under the spark gap conditions that exist. But, I will try it anyway...

I bought 12x350V spark arrestors and will hook them in series. They are DC devices so a I'll have to add a HV diode to the mix as well.

[mlurye]

Are you folks thinking that the NST output was center tapped?

Duane

Duane,
Yes it is center tapped.

[deggers]

Good that you see it. I have said many times that without knowing internal circuit of neon sign transformer we cannot replicate it.

Are you folks thinking that the NST output was center tapped?

Duane

[mlurye]

Mlurye, I was thinking that the actual freq may be obtained from the leads going to the Tesla coil inside the unit? Do you think it would be worth a try to get the measurments there?

I have wired up some 4 Led's and am trying some other analog meters to really figure out what type of electricty I have going on here. They act very different depending on connection variables. i am not sure why I cannot get any clear understanding of what is happening here.
I changed the L-2 confuguration and attached both wires to the spark gap, "to one terminal".
The gauss doubles, that means I am at 200 mG. This also means I am 1/2 the way to where Don says this plasma globe will put out. "400 mG = 40,000 V of magnetic induction/ RMS
I am not sure where I am at this point but I am just moving along...

h2ocommuter,
I know about this device as much as you are, maybe even less. So it just my opinion, stick with globe frequency.

[h2ocommuter]

Where to test Freq. ?

I'm getting frequency of the globe just by placing multimeter next to it. It's picking up 29kHz from the globe I have.

Mlurye, I was thinking that the actual freq may be obtained from the leads going to the Tesla coil inside the unit? Do you think it would be worth a try to get the measurments there?

I have wired up some 4 Led's and am trying some other analog meters to really figure out what type of electricty I have going on here. They act very different depending on connection variables. i am not sure why I cannot get any clear understanding of what is happening here.
I changed the L-2 confuguration and attached both wires to the spark gap, "to one terminal".
The gauss doubles, that means I am at 200 mG. This also means I am 1/2 the way to where Don says this plasma globe will put out. "400 mG = 40,000 V of magnetic induction/ RMS
I am not sure where I am at this point but I am just moving along...

[baroutologos]

Study better the circuit and reconsider your thoughts

baroutologos

[boguslaw]

I was looking at the Ou.com forum and saw a thread based on Don Smith devices. Actually some people there did some very serious job, but none of them have to report encouraging results.

Regarding the table top device, they have some clear photos of components of it and will greatly clarify your view. I put only 2 photos.

If you think about that, his NST has two possitive outlets that go to 2 different diodes. Then the possitive is connected to the caps (custom made per DOn) and the coil is directly in parallel with the caps.

The interesting thing is that the voltage arrestor unit (IMo used as a spark gap) is based on the return (ground) of the NST! LoL? What on earth would service to put the spark gap in series with the generator????

Don Smithonean buildings..

Baroutologos

Good that you see it. I have said many times that without knowing internal circuit of neon sign transformer we cannot replicate it.
I can only speculate that cap fires back to the neon sign transformer which is reflected then into primary coil .
Don said something about last (orange) coil on his tabletop device which prove that I'm right - he said it is not used any more because primary is actually recharging it's battery when working.Now you see it can be done only if capacitor discharges back to neon sign transformer.

[baroutologos]

I was looking at the Ou.com forum and saw a thread based on Don Smith devices. Actually some people there did some very serious job, but none of them have to report encouraging results.

Regarding the table top device, they have some clear photos of components of it and will greatly clarify your view. I put only 2 photos.

If you think about that, his NST has two possitive outlets that go to 2 different diodes. Then the possitive is connected to the caps (custom made per DOn) and the coil is directly in parallel with the caps.

The interesting thing is that the voltage arrestor unit (IMo used as a spark gap) is based on the return (ground) of the NST! LoL? What on earth would service to put the spark gap in series with the generator????

Don Smithonean buildings..

Baroutologos

ps: see the voltage arrestors Gas Tube Surge Arresters, Gas Discharge Tube and SAN-EARTH Conductive Cement

[boguslaw]

I feel table-top Don Smith device works.He just lied us about the proper adjusting of primary circuit which is crucial.Or maybe even not, just he didn't told us the most important info - primary capacitor MUST BE DC POLARIZED.
If you are able to produce shockwaves from primary you WILL KNOW the answer , the rest is only receiver.
Apparently Don converts shockwaves back into electric current - more precisely displacement current between capacitor terminals.He forces remaining dead electrons from positive terminal plus electrons from antenna connected to it (directly from air) to move back to negative terminal which makes capacitor charged extremely fast.Antenna is exactly the grounding wire he connected to his suitcase device.No good ground and output will be falling in amperage like presented in Smith last posted youtube videos.
There is nothing hard to understand here, except the secondary coils interaction maybe.

[baroutologos]

@ Dragon,

Yes you are right. From my small experience in the field, i can bet a fortune that the table top device cannot work. IMO, the far i read Tesla's work and other people's similar patents, the best i am conviced that Don either has made some OU units and want to conceal (or cannot explain) the priciples and utters various theories or just had made a copy-cat style of tesla's work and claims OU whereas never had it in the first place (smart merchantiship)

@Amigo,

Magnetic quenching as far i know, does not stop sparking in a spark gap, but helps at extinguish it very fast. it has an effect on the plasma throwing off direction of electrodes. (although in tesla's scripts somewhere i read that the magnetic field alter gap's properties making it harder to "ignite")

Baroutologos

[amigo]

Regarding the Don Smith table unit, I think I heard/read some say that the unit never worked nor it could possibly work in the component arragement it was presented. It was more of a show model to demonstrate the principles than anything else. We really only have Don's word on this that it actually worked.

About spark arrestors, they are generally connected to the ground so that any excess high potential can be safely and quickly lead out of the circuit. These devices are used to protect circuitry from over-voltage and spikes, etc.

It would be interesting to see how would they behave in a spark gap configuration. I do not see using one spark arrestor but a whole series, to emulate a series spark gap.

Question would be, what kind of voltage rating of the spark arrestor should one use to make a series spark gap that actually works. I suppose it would depend on the supplied high voltage, if anything else.

Lastly, @Baroutologos about those quenched spark gaps, the video you linked is intersesting because it shows that Neo magnets don't quench the gap sufficiently enough to stop the arcing. Although we don't know the rating of the Neo magnet so perhaps the strongest ones might do.

I still want to experiment with a Nitrogen or Sulfur Hexafluoride spark gap but I do not have an adequate environment or tools. I could source out industrial or scientific purity Nitrogen, but I still need a tank for it, valves and what not, two stage vacuum pump, electrodes and a glass container for the gap, a way to seal the container, etc. Blech...

[h2ocommuter]

failed attempt at 29 Khz spark gap

Mike I did everything I could possibly do to make the spark jump at 29K hz with no continuous sparks.
I made a quick video or my setup and how the freq changes according to the multimeter. Then I moved the multimeter next to the capacitors while running and the freq went over 1Mhz so I am retatively sure serious inacuricies are being obtained when measured this way.
I will go ahead and post that video and try to remind myself it is not acurate. YouTube - 29 k hz failed spark gap test .avi
Maybe just maybe I can justify this but I am not holding my breath.
For now I am not going to press the issue. It may be satisfactory to try to get acurate measurments using the gauss meter and the electrostatic voltmeter.
According to Don The only adjustments to freq are taken care of by the resistors, Which values are derived from the nomograph in the electronic tables and formulas handbook and the frequency chart from ARRL. These resistors are located at the cap bank and the IT. Also the Voltage is limited by the Varister on the output side of the IT for the plasma globe.

Now that I know I can get the spark to go through the caps to ground, I am going to concentrate on getting the caps hoocked up to the IT with the proper resistors in place..

h2ocommuter
Zane

[dragon]

I read from various sources in order to formulate a concept of my own (i do not trust any inventor's explanation ) and i order parts for resuming experiments.

While i was closely examining the Don's table device, i do not see at how the primary resonator could work. (table device)

Ok we have the NST but its outputs pass from diodes to the specialty Bubillier caps. The coil is in parallel to the cap (and not in series as far i can tell) and the "spark arrestor" seems to limit only the voltage at a max level. (according Patrick Kelly is between circuit and ground)

Primary NST output is regulated via a variac. Ok.
My question:

To those already involved in tesla coils, it will become readily perceivable that a coil in parallel with the cap without a spark-gap there can never work.
I do not see any spark-gap or spark arrestor or anything to keep open the circuit between the coil and the cap till the latter is fully charged. do you?


Baroutologos

There are a bunch of discrepencies in that table top device. I could be wrong but if you connect the NST directly to the coil in the way it's shown you basically negate all the voltage into a short cirucit leaving only current. As well your stuck with matching the resonance of the NST to the L2 coil. Using the spark gap you have room to work with both frequency and voltage as well as an introduction of current from the cap discharge. He does show one ( an arrestor ) but you can't tell in any of the photos how it was used and he describes it as going to ground as an NST protection device.

I have high doubts he ever had a working unit. The suitcase version didn't prove to anyone what he had was real. Maybe, his secrecy about the case proved he didn't.
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