Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[T-1000]

Just did first test with signal generator and single transistor on 1:1 transformation ratio. First thing I did notice - the BEMF on primary is not affected when secondary is shorted. The meter show half amps reading than on output. With oscilloscope it is less difference between input and output amps but looks promising. Will do 220V secondary now and see results later...

P.S> transformer gives ratio 0.75 on voltage, both coils have identical 2mm diameter wire and same number of turns.

[quantumuppercut]

I am curently in the process of trying to figure out how I can drive my test bi-toroid setup with higher power sinewaves. Clean sinewaves are pretty essential for making good power factor measurements with a scope, so once I figure something out to use for a higher power sinewave generator, I will do some more in depth testing. I am interested to hear your idea, and could maybe try it depending on what the idea is, but I may not be able to try it out for a little while yet until I figure out something for a higher power sinewave signal generator. I will see if I can rig something up on the weekend...

Thanks, as long as you're interested, I'll post it up. I would say that this isn't anyone design so it can not invalidate or validate any concept. If you have any question, comment, concern, please feel free to ask. Thanks again for your interest.

[mr.clean]

new video, solid overunity?

hi everyone, back with some more measurements and testing.

i noticed my scope has a built in WRMS calculator with internal calculable ohms.

it is not simply reading peak spikes, the scope understands that peak voltage is NOT the same as wattage, and it is a function that leaves nowhere to hide...

with all factors the same, using sine wave, and low frequency, the power thru the bulbs is the only variable.
and you will notice the readings are visually consistent with the apparent behaviour of the bulbs.

i am confident now with the RMS readings shown here. and the results here are in line with the inventors claims

now to scale up, and use this system as a HV resonant driver for my Smith coil board, or simply go with this system entirely, we'll see

here is what im confidently calling, overunity with the BiToroid, inspired by the people who originally disputed the output readings
Now with these RMS readings i am further convinced of the potential in this system

40 Don Smith Device Project: BiToroid SineWave Testing, Confirming RMS in/out - YouTube

[mr.clean]

Hi mr. clean. With a sinewave waveform the RMS voltages your scope calculates should be fairly close. With with other more complex waveforms such as what it looks like were going to your load, it may be close, but could be way off as well depending on the capabilities of the scope. As far as the way you are drawing conlcusions about input and output power, to be frank, it doesn't make much sense at all. I am not saying I think your circuit and transformer may not or could not be over unity, just that you would have to measure input and output power correctly if you want to know one way or the other. Using sinewaves is a good start however. Using a resistor for a load will make things easier as well. I posted a link to a tutorial a few days ago on how to measure Real (Active) power delivered to complex impedances such as a transformer primary, by just measuring RMS voltages, if you are interested. By the way, what is the make and model of your scope?

hi buddy yes much better with sine wave, and the scope has built-in ohmages for analyzing the signal.

the bulbs were more for visual, and to confirm the measurements along with the behaviour of the others. AND to have all the same conditions for each measurement

Ultimately, its the power in primary vs the power in secondaries, thats the focus. an efficient battery powered sinewave gen would be next, along with a huge Bitoroid.
But im not losing focus of the Smith projects, i work best when im doing 3 or 4 projects at once

I'll save u some time, the scope is the Velleman HPS140. and like it says in the company manual, "dont be fooled by its size" its got ...

•40Mega samples/sec in real time
•bandwidth up to 10MHz
•full auto range option
•sensitivity down to 0.1mV
•signal markers for amplitude and time
•memory Hold function
•direct audio power measurement
•USB battery charger included
•X10 measuring probe included
•bandwidth: up to 10 MHz (-3dB or -4dB at selected ranges)
•input range: 1mV to 20V/division in 14 steps
•input coupling: DC, AC and GND
•real-time sample rate up to 40MS/s
•AD resolution: 8 bits
•time base: 250ns to 1h per division
•auto set-up function (or manual)
•probe x10 readout option
•readouts: DC, AC+DC,***True RMS***, dBm, Vpp, Min-Max. (±2.5%)
•audio power measurement from 2 to 32 ohms
•hold & store function
•time and Voltage markers readout
•Max. 100Vp AC+DC
•white LED backlight
•operates on NiMH rechargeable battery pack (included)
•operates up to 6 hours on one charge*
•charging power supply: 9Vdc/200mA
•for use on CLASS II pollution degree II installations
•dimensions: 74 x 114 x 29mm / 2.9 x 4.5 x 1.14"
•weight: 200g, (7oz)

pretty nice scope THE FUTURE IS NOW

--catch the "true RMS" in description

[endlessanalog]

hi everyone, back with some more measurements and testing.

i noticed my scope has a built in RMS calculator with internal calculable ohms.

it is not simply reading peak spikes, the scope understands that peak voltage is NOT the same as wattage, and it is a function that leaves nowhere to hide...

with all factors the same, using sine wave, and low frequency, the power thru the bulbs is the only variable.
and you will notice the readings are visually consistent with the apparent behaviour of the bulbs.

i am confident now with the RMS readings shown here. and the results here are in line with the inventors claims

now to scale up, and use this system as a HV resonant driver for my Smith coil board, or simply go with this system entirely, we'll see

here is what im confidently calling, overunity with the BiToroid, inspired by the people who originally disputed the output readings
Now with these RMS readings i am further convinced of the potential in this system

40 Don Smith Device Project: BiToroid SineWave Testing, Confirming RMS in/out - YouTube

Thanks for setting the record straight for the doubters. Way to go!

[ewizard]

hi everyone, back with some more measurements and testing.

i noticed my scope has a built in RMS calculator with internal calculable ohms.

it is not simply reading peak spikes, the scope understands that peak voltage is NOT the same as wattage, and it is a function that leaves nowhere to hide...

with all factors the same, using sine wave, and low frequency, the power thru the bulbs is the only variable.
and you will notice the readings are visually consistent with the apparent behaviour of the bulbs.

i am confident now with the RMS readings shown here. and the results here are in line with the inventors claims

now to scale up, and use this system as a HV resonant driver for my Smith coil board, or simply go with this system entirely, we'll see

here is what im confidently calling, overunity with the BiToroid, inspired by the people who originally disputed the output readings
Now with these RMS readings i am further convinced of the potential in this system

40 Don Smith Device Project: BiToroid SineWave Testing, Confirming RMS in/out - YouTube

Very cool! Was that essentially the same circuit as before other than using the sine wave sig gen? Schematic? I still haven't gotten into winding my toroids yet as I've been without heat on and off last couple days so had to do some HVAC repair (all caused by hornets getting into system thru exhaust pipe! ). I did get the same toroids as you suggested and will be digging into this build although I'm still waiting on some of the other parts (might be in today). Do us all a favor - start wearing rubber gloves when you are playing with that HV - you make me nervous just watching

[mr.clean]

Very cool! Was that essentially the same circuit as before other than using the sine wave sig gen? Schematic? I still haven't gotten into winding my toroids yet as I've been without heat on and off last couple days so had to do some HVAC repair (all caused by hornets getting into system thru exhaust pipe! ). I did get the same toroids as you suggested and will be digging into this build although I'm still waiting on some of the other parts (might be in today). Do us all a favor - start wearing rubber gloves when you are playing with that HV - you make me nervous just watching

hehe yes i should, one time with just 600v i burned 2 holes in both my finger tips with a single 30uf Partial cap discharge, and was totally incapacitaing

i was lucky it was just one hand it pulsed thru, with more voltage than that with similar uF its a very dangerous thing

brutal about your hornets lol but yes, actually its prob the simplest config yet (the bitoroid) with just primary with parallel LC, and both secondaries separate with no caps.

the core must be increased tho, the sacondary paths to eachother should be huge as possible im finding
maybe even higher perm material for outter core legs as well as the thickness.
the Bemf from secondaries must have as little as possible reason to fight the primary Emf

the explanation as to where extra energy (if any, and looks good so far) could come from??

...the answer, and seems only logical... is the BEMF

...BEMF is the ONLY thing that was NOT part of the original input power. It is there, but why not loading L1 and compromising L2's ?...
The secondary bulbs shouldve dimmed and shared the "theoretically" limited available power, and primary current shouldve increased to do so...

... but primary current was relieved and secondaries became more active than primary in WRMS by over 6 times combined !!!

BEMF is the only explanation, it was not part of the input, and was ADDED instead of subtracted from performance

i think to further dispute this, we would be disputing the existance of BEMF itself

...a very real, well known and accepted "force" which "appears" when currents are induced.
simply "appearing" aka "creating energy" is supposed to be impossible anyway, by conventional thinking


reminds me of something Eric Dollard said, something regarding how perfect sine wave, how because of the pos and neg cycles... +_-_+_-_+_- etc ... you may have done incredible work with it, BUT the average is 0

just amounts to what happened in a certain period of time, at a certain time, just funny stuff

what did Tesla say? ...

"Relativity theory absolutely no, it is a mass of errors and deceptive ideas, wrapped in a magnificent mathematical cloak" actually E=.5 mV(2) N.Tesla 1935
and
"E=mc(2) was lifted by Einstein from Oliver Heaviside, 50-100 years after the thesis" D.Smith 1996

[quantumuppercut]

OK, interesting. Do you have any info or theory on what this setup might be doing and how it should impact power output results?

If this forum is a bar, then alcohol is high voltage spikes and oscillators. lol Voltage spikes always gives out curious pulses. Over the years, we find that the best way to extract energy from this pulse is AV plug or series of diodes. Many believes the energy is from input itself while others think it is not. Most of the oscillator we made probably runs in self resonant mode with nearly pure reactive power (or very small power factor). When we load them with wireless LEDs, they does not drag much. My setup contain both a normal component of transformer power and an AV plug with two diodes. Grounding provide extra capacitance to the effect. It is not necessary but has been verified better through AV plug experiment. So in addition to conventional power flowing through the resistor, there should be extra energy from the changing magnetic field. In my opinion, it should be operate at low power factor as possible. Load should be large enough to match impedance of the pulses. If core loss is not a problem, then I think it has potential.

[quantumuppercut]

Hi QU. Ah ok, I would need to drive the bi-toroid transformer with voltage pulses. Unfortunately when I drive the transformer with pulses I don't know how to measure or calculate the input power and power factor at the primary of the transformer. I can make measurements and calculate power factor and input power when I am putting a sinewave into the bi-toroid transformer, but I just get a sinewave out in that case with no voltage spikes. So it looks like I can't help with this one. The only thing I can think of to measure power into such a setup would be to measure the power input to the pulse generator, so the power in would include the power consumed by the pulse generator to generate the pulses as well. By the way what does "AV" stand for in "AV plug"?

I see. I think high magnetic field rate of change is what we need. It's okay though. Sorry for the abbreviation. It's an Avramenko's plug.

[mr.clean]

Hi QU. Ah ok, I would need to drive the bi-toroid transformer with voltage pulses. Unfortunately when I drive the transformer with pulses I don't know how to measure or calculate the input power and power factor at the primary of the transformer. I can make measurements and calculate power factor and input power when I am putting a sinewave into the bi-toroid transformer, but I just get a sinewave out in that case with no voltage spikes. So it looks like I can't help with this one. The only thing I can think of to measure power into such a setup would be to measure the power input to the pulse generator, so the power in would include the power consumed by the pulse generator to generate the pulses as well. By the way what does "AV" stand for in "AV plug"?

AV for Avremenko Plug, named after the inventor two diodes forward and back to cap, i guess idea is to catch and separate pos and neg cycles from one wire

[mr.clean]

Yes, that looks like a good little scope. If you are interested, check out this tutorial on how to determine the real power delivered to your primary on your transformer by just adding a series resistor (1 ohm will do), and taking a couple of RMS voltage measurements with your scope. You can calculate Irms by measuring the RMS voltage across the 1 ohm series resistor and dividing by 1 ohm to get the primary RMS current:
Measuring Watts and VARS with a VOM

right on man and thanks, but you must be assuming im using vrms, here all measurements were taken with very precise WRMS@32ohms
Vrms,Irms,power factor, etc, all accounted for

[Farmhand]

Can you provide an accurate schematic of that showing where the scope probes
are placed to determine the input power ? Are you measuring the input power
across an LED ?

I've read that WRMS is not that accurate, just what I read.
I noticed a comment on the video about "this might be exiting for some and
disappointing for others", i don't think anyone will be disappointed if you
actually prove extra energy, the disappointment would be if it another mistaken claim.

I still don't get why you don't just smooth the input and output
(after rectifying the output) if a battery is used for input. If the sine wave
generator is using energy the energy it consumes should also be added as
input, a kilo Watt meter should be used at the wall socket for the sine wave
generator and the output if smoothed DC is easily measured.

Where is the input for the primary coming from ? Is the energy consumed by
the sine wave generator considered as input. Without the signal generator
there is no output so the the energy it consumes must also be considered.
It is part of the circuit.

Cheers

[mr.clean]

Can you provide an accurate schematic of that showing where the scope probes
are placed to determine the input power ? Are you measuring the input power
across an LED ?

I've read that WRMS is not that accurate, just what I read.
I noticed a comment on the video about "this might be exiting for some and
disappointing for others", i don't think anyone will be disappointed if you
actually prove extra energy, the disappointment would be if it another mistaken claim.

I still don't get why you don't just smooth the input and output
(after rectifying the output) if a battery is used for input. If the sine wave
generator is using energy the energy it consumes should also be added as
input, a kilo Watt meter should be used at the wall socket for the sine wave
generator and the output if smoothed DC is easily measured.

Where is the input for the primary coming from ? Is the energy consumed by
the sine wave generator considered as input. Without the signal generator
there is no output so the the energy it consumes must also be considered.
It is part of the circuit.

Cheers

hi Farmhand i like your questions, you really know your $hit

little story: i was getting real interrogation from a guy on youtube for the last few days, like you he understands real power readings

and i re-explained the connections, and how my goal is to test what is in my primary coil vs secondary coils
(not necessarily the Entire signal gen with cooling fan, separate transformer and other lossy components)

and he was not clear on how the bulbs were connected, so i described the setup again, how bulbs are parallel connected, and that was where my readings were...

and i was completely blown away by his reply:

"The LED's are in parallel to the input/output coil's?
Well then this changes everything.
If this is the case,then i need to congradulate you on your achievment--very few have been down this path.
So no problem with the scope reading watts,as that is just volt's over time-and most new digital scope's have that function.

Well i dont know what else to say,but-wow--nice work.

So what are your plane's from here on?
Will this be an open sorce project,or are you going a diferent way with it?

Anyway-i wish you all the best,and great going there.

Cheers
B....."

so i dont know this guy personally, but it was really nice and reassuring to hear that.
and hopefully that gives some assurance to others too

with a small pure sine inverter with adjustable freq/signal gen efficient and clean enough, with a chosen core based on power needs, should totally be possible based on this small scale (which can almost 100% be improved, because i was improvising)

[clarence]

Information on capacitor supply source

Hello Mr Clean:

clarence here,

Have been silent but watching as always! I need some info from you concerning your supply source for the capacitors you use. I have noticed in your past posts some small red , sometimes blue , etc small radial type I believe are ceramic caps? I have been finding it difficult to obtain a few last ceramic type caps of uf high voltage say 3000v or + value to finish out my invertor driver, so I was wondering what your source is to see if it was any better than the ones I have found. would appreciate a blast back and maybe I can make some progress. thanks a bunch, LOL and best regards on your projects also,

mike, onward!

[mr.clean]

I did see you mention that you were using this feature in your video, and I have already commented on this previously, that I can't make any sense out of the way you were trying to estimate input and output power. Again, you can't measure input and output power that way. Also, I am not sure what this Wrms@32 ohms scope setting is intended for exactly, but I am doubtful that you can even make power estimations the way you were trying to do in the video. In the very least you would need to fully understand what that particular feature on your scope is intended for, and exactly how you need to setup your circuit and exactly how you need to connect your probe into the circuit to use the feature as well. You provided no details on any of this in the video so there is no way for anyone to get any real understanding about input and output power in your circuit in the video. You certainly can't just set your scope to this Wrms@32 ohms setting and make random measurements on your circuit and expect to get anything much meaningful out of that. Again, you would fist need to fully understand how this feature is intended to be used, and all the details about what it's limitations are and fully how to properly make measurements using this feature. When I looked at your scope's user manual previously it didn't seem to have any info on this. Do you have info on all the details I mention above about what you would need to know to use this feature on your scope?

lol ok, well are you saying you cant replicate this?

its very simple, and mine can be improved on 100% if you had a dedicated core shape and better than arbitrary turns, along with taking advantage of resonance based on the frequency you are using and inductance of your primary coil...you know the rest.

anyway it should be simple enough for you to do even with a full bench of other jobs.
and then you can test it yourself

i cant guarantee the 2 secondaries will do the same thing if they are both on one side tho,

but i can guarantee that you will get the same results as me if you make it like mine or like mine but optimized with thicker and higher perm material like metglass, than L1 core legs made from ferrite.

thats what i plan on next, that and thicker and higher number of turns.
then put some serious voltage thru... instead of the 2volts you saw in last video
maybe a pure sine inverter with fan removed, and high uF (30-80uf, or depending on L1 inductance)
for resonance at 60hz like i used in one of my don smith vids, brought supply current down 50%
you would prob call it impedance matching, or power factor correction.

...but come on, anyway you look at it, when capacitive and inductive reactance match, its ~resonance~

you can do it man, not that hard, and doesnt take long, i had toroids snapped and coils wrapped in an hour, very hastily, and threw the switch and just kept trying different cap and freq values,
but can easily use 60hz ac and tune resonant.

on a past vid i used a trafo with 121mH L1, with 60hz, so i used 60uF (needed 58) and same output, with less input current (based on high impedance at parallel resonance)

it just seems like you wont believe or trust my readings, so go for it

and i could still be wrong, that is the reason for these experiments,
one thing is for sure, with any normal transformer ive used, current goes up in primary when i load it, and when i make sec do more work, the other bulb compromises and dimms both...
...here it totally opposite.

have you not witnessed this yourself in your own work?
Right from the start i knew there was something special here, do you not agree these are strange but good behaviour?

im really getting tired of explaining this, IM NOT trying to make a big claim, only trying to replicate and honestly share what im doing without tricks.

and i really dont care who wants to "take it seriously", because im just replicating, not inventing. People can like it or not, clearly you dont, ok,

you must be wasting a lot of time here if you dont think this is interesting stuff to increase output, and demanding less current

i could just put a blanket over it and show phantom readings, but im not, im really trying to do this for real and openly share it with no financial gain, not even monetizing my vids anymore.