If current are electrons , what is the voltage ?

[boguslaw]

Voltage is the measure of the difference of electrical pressure between two points in space. Current is what passes between those two points to equalize, or void that pressure differential. Water pressure is not the water, just as voltage is not the electron.

Water pressure is a WAVE inside water

[Joit]

Water pressure is a WAVE inside water

Voltage is only a Measure unit imho.
Like Mph, you can measure the Speed of the Cars, but Mph are not the Cars.
So the Pressure is counted in a Unit, no matter, how it appears.
Or you weight a Pound Sugar, the Pound is the measuring Unit, but not the Sugar.
Voltage is the same, its the measured unit for the Speed of the electrons.

[sucahyo]

I thought about that event when a bare copper wire is connected to voltage source forming open circuit. I think that potential which appear on wire is ELECTRONS in wave state, but once they flow and meet wire boundary they reflect and interference with themselves becouse their speed is far greater then light.

They can be both. Borderlands's Tesla transverse and longitudinal electric video show how electricity travel at different speed according to the wave type. On my memori it is 0.8 and 1.5 of light speed.

[barbosi]

@boguslaw You have light.
Voltage is just exactly that: Electrons.

This is going to hurt many believers.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ELECTRON!
A classic in free energy study is Ed who said (and nobody ever listen):

Millions of people all over the world are being fooled by the non-existing electrons. Here is how the electrons came into existence. Thomson invented an imaginary baby and called it an electron. Rutherford adopted it and now the men with the long hair are nursing it. The electron has a brother and its name is proton, but it is heavy and lazy. It remains stationary in the middle, but the electron has to run around it.

And later he explains:

The invention of an electron came by a tricky method in using electricity in a vacuum tube. Normally whether it be a generator or a battery, the positive terminal will have to be connected to the negative terminal, but in the vacuum tube two batteries with different strength were used, the smaller battery was connected normally, but the larger battery's negative terminal was connected to the smaller battery's negative terminal, and the positive terminal was left alone. That connection gave the negative terminal a double dose of strength, and so it became hotter and could push more. It was called cathode and the positive terminal anode, and the electricity that passed from the cathode to the anode was called electrons.

In his books Ed intentionally left a blank page for whomever would disagree with him to expose his theories (in case the reader thought could do better that Ed).
Here the electron believers have a whole forum to prove Ed was wrong. Please expose your experiments proving the existence of electrons. Or if is easier, post a picture with an electron.

[boguslaw]

Look WHAT I SAID !

There are electrons OR there are not. That's not a matter.!

Electricity is a wave ! Electrons pop-up when INTERFERENCE is FORCED.

Make a stationary wave on wire surface and that will be flowing, make the same inside and that will be reflected by crystal structure and boundary forming electrons quanta. Force wave rotating around and you create molecular electrons orbits. Push is outside and make EM wave .

Something like that. Everywhere are waves!

[Joit]

@Barbosi
When you take it as that, a Tree dont exist too, when you take it apart.
But as a Unit, what you can count with, it is a Tree.
Its the same for a Atom, its not a complete Part, it is made from Protons, Neutrons, Electrons, but the Arrangement does make it to an Atom.

And i am sure, they will go deeper and deeper into stuff, and will find allways new Parts, what they can give a new Name and maybe it will take a long time, till they found the last Basics, if there are any.

At last, we can count now something with, when you talk about Electrons, Atoms, Neutrons.

At last, Voltage is the Speed from '"something", what is moving'

[aljhoa]

This is going to hurt many believers.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ELECTRON!
A classic in free energy study is Ed who said (and nobody ever listen):

And later he explains:


In his books Ed intentionally left a blank page for whomever would disagree with him to expose his theories (in case the reader thought could do better that Ed).
Here the electron believers have a whole forum to prove Ed was wrong. Please expose your experiments proving the existence of electrons. Or if is easier, post a picture with an electron.

Today’s physicists replaced old Newtonian terminology by relativistic quantum field theory where quantum excitation of a field permeates fabric of space and time so by default there are no electrons.
Al

[barbosi]

Resistance is Futile on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[sucahyo]

I will call something that move between electric potential as electron. Even if it is actually nothing, even if it actually consist of many particle of nothing, even if it consist of particle of a particle, even if is actually proton, even if it actually is atom, even if it actually molecule, even if it is actually a bike. It would be easier to explain and I can't think any other name to something that move in an electrified copper wire.

If you decide not to call it electron, you can't use the word electric too. I mean electro => electric => electron.

[barbosi]

Although the only source I have is http://www.teslapress.com/tesla_what_he_is.html stating:

Tesla is on record as declaring "There is no such thing as an electron."

... I would appreciate a more reliable source of this quote.

And if you don't mind, I may say: if you don't trust a "simple minded" man as Ed with accomplishments that cannot be achieved by modern sophisticated man of today, at least you may give some credit to Tesla who gave you all (and I mean ALL) the technology we are using today.

But I was challenging the "true believers" of electron theory and electric current theory.
Wikipedia now has this definition:

Electric current is the flow of electric charge. The electric charge may be either electrons or ions.

Times are changing, electric current is not a flow of electrons as we have been thought, now there are ions too. I love when we see things clearer by the day... Now we have to prove there is not such thing as ion. Did you notice how in all Tesla's patents he pleased the "scientifics" using the term "particles"? Isn't an ion an atom with a lack of excess of electrons (which doesn't exist)?

Can we survive such heresy?

PS: Sorry what was the topic of this thread? What is voltage? Yes: Potential. That's it.

[sucahyo]

Everyone seems to has different meaning of what electron is. What Tesla and Ed said is "My electron is not your electron".

[boguslaw]

http://www.energeticforum.com/49316-post1140.html

[Joit]

http://www.energeticforum.com/49316-post1140.html

You did mess up the Link boguslaw

[boguslaw]

Sorry

[barbosi]

The best explanation I found to date is in "Introduction to DIELECTRICITY AND CAPACITANCE" By Eric P. Dollard published in "The journal of Borderland Research" - March-April 1990.
One stop - one shop (for the sake of this topic).
Ironically Eric answers also the question about electron theory by quoting Charles Proteus Steinmetz:

Unfortunately, to a large extent in dealing with dielectric fields the prehistoric conception of the electrostatic charge (electron) on the conductor still exists.... and makes the consideration of dielectric fields unnecessarily complicated.

As for what voltage is, I recommend reading Eric's article. In fact all his materials are very well presented so I recommend them all.