The Mechanical Engine

[marxist]

credit squeeze

Hi CloudSeeder,

thank you for thinking along with me.

I sent you a short vid of the starting sequence of the simulation so that you can see what's happenin'.
Note that the initial state of the mechanism is balanced, yet unstable (unstable equilibrium).
Can't publish the link as I don't have enough bandwidth.

...There appears to be a major difference between a human walking alternating one side then the other versus the device you show lifting both sides at the same time. ...

...So your further drawing looks like you made an upside down mirror image...

[CloudSeeder]

To Marxist: There appears to be a major difference between a human walking alternating one side then the other versus the device you show lifting both sides at the same time. I am not understanding how the same thing happening on both sides simultaneously is supposed to result in any spinning.

So your further drawing looks like you made an upside down mirror image, so the hub should be doing double the turns?... except they need the weights to have a recoil force? It looks a bit like you need a return spring on each side... because when you mirror them you may be losing the gravity aspect or cutting the force by 50% x gravity.

It might spin really well if you add springs.

[CloudSeeder]

@Marxist: If your system does 179 degrees per movement then your system only needs a bump past 180, right, two bumps? You have many ways to provide that bump. SkyWatcher's system could provide that carryover energy, or a Windmill. An inertia-multiplying helper system makes it possible to use heavier weights, while windmills never turn backwards.

Your idea seems solid enough, might work fine too if the board weighed less.
We get tired in the knees too when we carry a piece of plywood very far.

[marxist]

moving forward

Hi,

I am getting more and more convinced, that if we allow weights to move within a wheel, these movements should be used to shift the center of mass of the mechanical system upward; in other words the weights' movements should be exploited for useful work - regardless of whether the weights are pendulums or other mechanisms.

Again my example for this: Walking. The lifting of one leg is used twofold:
to make the body tilt to start to fall forward and yet, an instant later the same leg will be used for support to make sure that the center of mass of the body don't fall below the hub or axis of rotation.

I think I have come across a mechanical system which will help us to build a wheel along these lines of thought. The German name for this system is "Kniehebel" meaning something like "knee-type-leverage-system"; don't know the proper English term for it.
It is depicted here, in an image from wikipedia:


I have built a wheel in wm2d which makes use of such a mechanical setup.
It looks like so:


I tried to point out the similarities between the wheel and the image from wikipedia by using corresponding colors.
Green is for the weights.

Who downloads the related zipped .wm2d-file (400 kB) from here

[SkyWatcher]

hammer blow motor wheel

Hi folks, Cloudseeder thought i should repost this in this thread and if it could be of some use here it is. I wonder what if this design could possibly reduce back reflection of mechanical source somewhat like the 2 stage lever device. It would use a belt like in steam engines to reverse the direction of the other wheel or gears and then hammers would be set up around the periphery of each wheel to interact and since the smaller wheel is faster it would impart momentum to the larger wheel similar to a higher voltage needed to start charging a battery. This idea may not add energy but if it prevented a load from slowing the system down that would be something worthwhile. Anyway your thoughts are welcome and heres a pic of the idea.

[CloudSeeder]

@Ted: Good idea, heavier weights. That should overcome the inner wheel-board inertia.

[Ted Ewert]

I couldn't get the pendulum to return enough; so it reset at 9 o'clock, not 7. That meant it had to do too much work to lift the weights before they reset.

Also I couldn't get an outward swing to hit a rubber ball fixed on the wheel to not cause lift.

Doesn't mean it won't work though.

Had the same problem. I'm going to a shorter arm and possibly a heavier weight. It has to swing fast before it drops too much.

[CloudSeeder]

Pendulum in a Pendulum?

Perhaps a pendulum hanging from a pendulum, 4 to a wheel would do something better... but when they swing back they would DEFINITELY NEED A LATCH.

[CloudSeeder]

Pendulum + Close-to-pivot counterweight



Keeping the added weight close to the pivot point eliminates fulcrum effect that opposes pendulum swing... enhancing pendulum swing instead, reaching higher swing heights, enhancing downward force, and if the whole pendulum unit was made to slide away from the hub around 3-5pm would increase leverage against the hub.

The pendulum unit being propelled away from hub by its extra top-loaded weight could be used to pull its opposing pendulum (coming up on the left side) to be pulled closer to hub for the ride up the left side.

John Collins has authored a good page last year 2008: Home (gravitywheel.com)

[CloudSeeder]

@Inquorate: Would not a top-weighted pendulum stop all those negative results? Consider trying it sometime.

@Shamus: Shame on you, working on furniture when the WORLD is waiting. Don't let the never-satisfied demands of keeping marital harmony outweigh the need for GRAVITY WHEELS. Let's have a restructuring of priorities!

[Inquorate]

I've tried it

I couldn't get the pendulum to return enough; so it reset at 9 o'clock, not 7. That meant it had to do too much work to lift the weights before they reset.

Also I couldn't get an outward swing to hit a rubber ball fixed on the wheel to not cause lift.

Doesn't mean it won't work though.

[Shamus]

I just thought I'd stick my nose in here for a sec--has anyone built and proven or disproven Peter's design? It seems to me that it would have a reasonable chance of working.

I wouldn't mind building it myself but it seems that Peter has a different idea for a working model (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that count Peter!). Also I'm currently in the middle of building a file cabinet for my wife, so extra projects will have to wait until I get that finished.

[Ted Ewert]

The pendulum swinging out could impact a stationary spring; downward force.

It could then be held 'out' by a latch; downward force.

The other pendulum could pull a string that pulls the opposite pendulum toward the lever's fulcrum; upwards force on opposite side.

That string pulling mechanism could have a spring on it... The latch releases the outstretched pendulum which swings back in and hits the spring; downward force

When the lever arm is vertical, the lower pendulum touches the ground and is rendered 'weighless'; upwards force...

This really should work

I had a similar idea to what you are talking about. It consisted of a little plate that the pendulum hits on its way back to the wheel. This would hang the weight outside for another short period of time, possibly increasing power.
The experiments we have been doing with a balanced wheel and a pendulum swinging are not representative of the conditions in Peters wheel. On the wheel, the weight will be in an unbalanced position for it's entire period of movement. This will absolutely pull the wheel down.
The main problem I see with Peters wheel is getting the right speed and release point. If the wheel is moving too fast, it will reduce the distance the pendulum travels out and back. This will cause a lack of power and latching problems. Too slow and the period between swings becomes too long. The optimal release point will also be dependent on the speed of the wheel.
Obviously, these things can only be determined with a working model.

Cheers,

Ted

[CloudSeeder]

Top-of-Pendulum Counterweight

Anyone who follows up on the idea of extending the top of the pendulum... you could put a latch up there to catch it above the pivot rivet. Anybody who doesn't get their wheel running is from a lack of CHEATING. This isn't a classroom <> you can CHEAT YOUR HINEY OFF HERE.

For instance, the whole pendulum could be on a slide. Anybody who could pull that off... and have the entire pendulum arrangement swing out to the right on the down side would be In Like Flint. What you'd maybe want to do is have the slide on a slight grade, say 4-10% grade (Y-positive). That way it would all slide back toward the hub once the weight has done its work. Quickdraw =>



The lip on the end is a modified smack plate I suppose, but it should
be more of a curve than a Take-off ramp. Paint only does so much.
I realize as the wheel continues spinning it needs to pull up...

[CloudSeeder]

Top-of-Pendulum Counterweight

next post.