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**martin** · 02-18-2009, 01:14 AM

Gray tube

Hello everyone. Ive been following this quite a while and have one question. The green arrows in the pic are the copper collection tubes. The pink arrows are the insulators. Ok, now what is where the blue arrow is?

The spacing of the copper and the insulators don't add up to me. It's like there's another ring conductor in between the copper rings. Also, something else Ive noticed, is there's a black solid mass in the middle where the center conductor comes out. Could this be the carbon piece that's in the drawing? If you connect all of the copper together and all the possible other conductors in between the copper.... kinda looks like a capacitor? Just a thought. By the way EXCELLENT work everyone!!!

Attached Files

CSET2 200-5mod.jpg (34.9 KB, 47 views)

**Aaron** · 02-18-2009, 01:58 AM

@ beshires

Originally posted by Beshires1 View Post

Look Your dreaming. I haven't made any claims about my circuit having any hoodoo magic . I posted a video and a picture showing that I had had the Grey tube to produce a event. That was the first event posted plainly showing the tube discharging and the coil jumping from the same discharge from the tube. My only claim made was that I stated that it was the first event of the Grey tube producing useable work. You must be having a brain Hemmorage.

You obviously thought that your Worlds First Video proved your point . But You only proved what I said backing up the patent. So your discharging a charge into a coil yes it will also charge the cap because you have it wired in circuit with the coil. The Friggin coil is not disconnecting and moving away as it would when it is on a rotor shaft."

This is obviously another hallucination of yours. In case your still confused let ME spell it out to YOU. Thats my quote: I'm tellin you that: "I still don't see how all that energy sneaks thru the coil and charges a capacitor then discharges back thru the coil to make it Jump." I never said you said this. Thats a hallucination Your havin there son.

Again Tell me how all that wire exploding power goes thru the coil without so much as a wiggle to charge a cap on the other side then discharge back thru the same coil. That Is What I want to Know. I plainly stated as does the patent that there might be a little charge to the cap before it is disconnected. Why are you so difficult? Not use to people tellin ya that your wrong Huhh.

If you want to keep up this argument then post some more of your hallucinations and I'll see If I can Help you find reality.

You were responding to my comment about that effect and you want to leave yourself room to say you aren't. You are not welcome to post another message in this thread.

You have started with disrespect against Peter and myself, you said you weren't going to post anymore in this thread and you have continued to misdirect attention away from any valid points that I have asked you never answering anything asked of you and only answering questions that weren't asked.

The entire point you made about disrespecting my posts to begin with is because you claimed you made the REAL event...not just a tube making coils pop but the REAL thing, which you did not and you want to claim you never claimed that.

You are manipulating the conversation and you are telling things that aren't true. You are giving misinformation about what is true and what is not and what is possible and what is not. You are not welcome to post in this thread any more. Period end of story. Do NOT post a reply to this in THIS thread...you can do what you want in your own threads. Make your own thread and explore your own misinformed opinion there but do not dilute this thread with your own misunderstandings. You claimed to have the EFFECT from your claims of having a REAL replication and on and on nwo you claim you didn't claim that.

Do not respond to this message, this is my thread and you are free to start your own. You have NOT been honest in what you have said.

I am not your son, I have no hallucinations and I'm very clear about your deceptions, manipulations and obfuscations, which are more than clear at this point are not from negligence but from willful and wanton intent.

**Aaron** · 02-18-2009, 02:09 AM

@all

Originally posted by Beshires1 View Post

I didn't start this with you. I only gave correct answers to others questions. I didn't mention the Aaron replication method because. The tube is supposed to work as described by the inventor. Which is NOT you. I still don't see how all that energy sneaks thru the coil and charges a capacitor then discharges back thru the coil to make it Jump. Does it slip thru there slowly so the coil doesn't realize that there is power there the first time? Greys description sounds better.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST BESHIRES, MOVE TO YOUR OWN THREAD. The facts stand for themselves.

Here is the context from which Beshires quote came from, responding to my description of what I said was happening with cap 38. He is INTENTIONALLY misleading and deceiving all of you. Whether or not you are mislead or deceived is another is another issue and most people here are too smart for that but this proves the intent. He is responding to what I have been discussing plain and simple and he can say that he is only saying that he is only saying he doesn't see what he said above but with less than two brain cells, it is common sense what he is responding to and originally wanted you to think I said something so pathetically stupid, which I did not, he didn't think I would notice, I did, I pointed it out and he is telling another untruth as evidenced by his most recent post....NO, he is saying he doesn't see it because of what I described that he is twisting my words intentionally. Not only that, he commented it in a sarcastic way of the energy sneaking though the coil.

I am NOT amused by any of this and if your intent is to spread disinformation and you work for someone or some company with a vested interest in keeping this technology out of the public domain, you have come to the wrong place buddy.

**What The Flux** · 02-18-2009, 02:34 AM

Grids covering gap?

Originally posted by Aaron View Post

Grid away from LV rod and gap allows cap 38 to slam into the HV potential from front side without it discharging directly to LV rod when LV rod is connected.

If over gap, it is possible for cap 38 to discharge direct to LV rod using plasma burst as pathway.

Yet, this is what Bedini witnessed in his investigation of actual Gray motor - grids covering spark gap:

Do you suspect this was a deliberate attempt to mislead him/us?

**Aaron** · 02-18-2009, 06:39 AM

grid placement 2

Some of the drawings from Bedini was before the patents and I believe John drew them up as they were. Therefore, Gray may have found some reason at a later time that gave him a reason to believe the grids needed to be only over the HV rod OR the patent was drafted to show the grids over the rods for the purpose of confusing people for misdirection to something which may or may not be relevant. This has been a subject of debate for the last 7-8 years or however long since they were released.

I have every reason in the world to believe Bedini drew them as Gray demonstrated them to John.

The same issue comes up with the diode, another subject of debate for the same length of time. Mark had comments about why Bedini drew them this way possibly based on some idea other that what Gray was doing, but this is debatable. Gray's patent shows the triode in the opposite way as Bedini's diagram with the diode that serves the purpose of the one way channel but reversed. But we know for sure that patents are changed so that they fit the language scheme that the patent office will accept.

This is why a Bedini patents shows that Back EMF is used to charge the batteries even though we know that Back EMF doesn't even exist after the coil is shut off...it is the collapsing magnetic field spike, inductive spike, etc... anything but Back EMF. It is thought conventionally that the spike is useless and is usually grounded out and serves no other purpose than being a nuisance. But saying the Back EMF is what is captured is acceptable to the patent office.

Gray's patent uses the term Back EMF to describe the inductive spike from the load to charge cap 38...when back emf is long gone when the coil is turned off. Possibly for the same reason Bedini did to satisfy the patent examiners...or possibly because he doesn't even know the difference, or possibly to throw in some confusion. In either case, Gray's patent is disqualified on multiple accounts from being an honest description of everything that is happening.

There is always a fudge factor in a patent that has a valuable concept that is meant to be hidden. Gray never let anyone see his power supplies and was super paranoid about it and only a small drop of it is revealed in any patent. Mark said that Bedini said the tube is a red herring and this is the most credible eye witness to the technology as far as anyone that saw it that is able to understand with competence what they were looking at...besides Ron Cole.

This is one reason I believe the triode in the Gray patent is draw in reverse to Bedini's. Even if Gray is fully aware of how the diode or triode works, I highly doubt that the patent examiners will allow you to patent something with a diode where the cathode is at the end where a HV input is going to go...because according to conventional thinking, it is impossible for anything to go thru it since it is blocking it...therefore to make it palatable to the patent examiners, reverse it so they will wrap their minds around the accepted use of a diode that the HV will enter the annode and leave the cathode to the LV source to the battery and if anyone wants to send a 3000-5000v pulse at a few uf's or more over a gap and straight into a diode that will remain open as Gray shows, be my guest...just wear goggles, a hat, gloves and apron and stand behind a lexan wall.

There are ignition patents with the exact same concept as the Gotoluc ignition system and the Gray tube concept and in ALL of those patent, the language they use to describe the diode and the LV source indicates that they have no idea how a diode works. They think the HV leaves the HV source and goes over the gap and the LV source follows...yes that happens, but NOTHING about the HV entering the diode first and having the diode shut off to compress that potential further...that leaves, causes a vacuum and sucks the LV source out at negative resistance. So either they don't know how a diode works and don't know how their own circuit works or they are saying what is acceptible to the patent examiner...or both.

There is reasonable doubt about multiple things in the patent and Gray even references "those who are skilled in the art" a very clear way of alluding to concepts that are understood but not necessarly pointed out in any specific language.

With the grids, your guess is as good as mine.

But my main belief so far is that cap 38 can collide with the HV from the HV rod without the chance of cap 38 discharging directly to LV rod when rod is switched - IF the grid isn't over the LV rod or gap.

**Aaron** · 02-18-2009, 08:42 AM

electrostatic stress can be discharge path

Here is a video by Greg (gmeast) showing the abrupt discharge happening WITHOUT a physical connection on one side of the circuit...AND without a spark...the spark is there sometimes...but even WITHOUT any sort of spark, the true disruptive discharge still happens from the caps over the gap...the electrostatic tension is all that is needed to allow the cap to discharge.

YouTube - stress forming dipole causes plasma burst

**Aaron** · 02-18-2009, 09:24 AM

Gray Tube Discussion

Here is a thread to discuss any ideas, hypothesis, speculation, etc.. on how the Gray Tube works. Any of Tesla's work in relation to this and how you think it applies, etc... and anything else you can think of... this thread is specifically for this:

Energetic Forum

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3795-gray-tube-discussion.html

**Guest** · 02-18-2009, 10:22 AM

If anyone has some results on efficiency on THEIR way of performing work I would be the first to be interested. I have no time or competence to debate this subject on any high level and hence only want to survey the results of your efforts.

However I congratulate all people putting their energy into this thread! Well done to all of you, please don´t put more energy on fighting and pride, it will only give a headache!

**mlurye** · 02-18-2009, 01:08 PM

Aaron,
I'm lost. You sad a lot in a last couple of days. Yes, I agree Beshires1 is pain in an a$$, but he has good ideas and I don't believe that his intentions is to insult anybody. (Beshires1 really, think a little bit more about your statements, and try not to insult anybody).
We are here for the reason, that we can freely discuss our ideas. And now you are putting rules and borders in this thread, what we can talk about here and what we cannot

What do you want us to do?

**boguslaw** · 02-18-2009, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by martin View Post

Hello everyone. Ive been following this quite a while and have one question. The green arrows in the pic are the copper collection tubes. The pink arrows are the insulators. Ok, now what is where the blue arrow is?

The spacing of the copper and the insulators don't add up to me. It's like there's another ring conductor in between the copper rings. Also, something else Ive noticed, is there's a black solid mass in the middle where the center conductor comes out. Could this be the carbon piece that's in the drawing? If you connect all of the copper together and all the possible other conductors in between the copper.... kinda looks like a capacitor? Just a thought. By the way EXCELLENT work everyone!!!

Congratulations.You are wonderful researcher! I have thought about those shiny points on photo but I suspected it were only a reflections of camera photo flash. Except there are strangely misplaced, only one being at left side of grids. I see something also, please correct me ,because I'm not so good in investigating old photos. I can't see wire connection to center rod ! There is white wire coming to the opposite part of box , probably connected to rod there , but I can't see any wire connected to rod at the grids !

Mark,when was that photo made ? Year ?

**Electrotek** · 02-18-2009, 05:25 PM

Both Ends Of CSET

Here are three pictures of the CSET's. The first two photos show that the CSET looks basically the same from both ends, except for the placement of the epoxy globs which maintain grid alignment. The last picture shows the rheostat speed control box on the back table, with one of the output wires going to the CSET inner rod, which runs through all three CSET's. The input to the rheostat comes from the Black Box on the floor which likely contains the spark gap.

As Mark McKay pointed out, the original CSET was a two wire apparatus.