Gray Tube Replication

[freeukpower]

modern electronics fry Want to have unlimited Free Energy?

Help to develop the shortest possible pulse on the LV side of the spark gap, any source of DC will work on the HV side provided it has storage capacitors

[Electrotek]

Defeating The Time Constant

If that isn't what Gray had, then I discovered how to change the inductance of an inductor allowing a super fast discharge into it even with super thin wire and a lot of windings to give a super fast magnetic pop. I don't know anyone else that has ever done this and if Gray or Marvin Cole did, then I found what they did.

Aaron: Don't you remember that I discussed this same thing, back in message 170 (page 6), using the setup I detailed in message 156? I was hoping that someone would get the idea to "change the inductance". I don't think anyone is ever the only one to do anything.

[What The Flux]

modern electronics fry Want to have unlimited Free Energy?

Help to develop the shortest possible pulse on the LV side of the spark gap, any source of DC will work on the HV side provided it has storage capacitors

Welcome to the group. I'm glad to see another serious experimenter here.
I'm very much hoping you will share your experiments and data with us. Your explanation is consistent with my initial research. The alternate concepts being discussed here aren't necessarily exclusive of your (and Tesla's) ideas, but I am hoping we can unify some of these ideas.

@Boguslaw
I don't think people are ignoring you or your theories. I for one am reading all of your posts and trying to digest the concepts. Sometimes I have trouble understanding what you are trying to convey. Sometimes this is my fault and sometimes I think it is not communicated well.

I think you are very knowledgable, but you probably need to have more patience with a forum group that is made of people of all backgrounds. Personally I hope you continue to clarify and demonstarte your points so I can understand them better, in light of actual experiments.

[Beshires1]

Aaron: Don't you remember that I discussed this same thing, back in message 170 (page 6), using the setup I detailed in message 156? I was hoping that someone would get the idea to "change the inductance". I don't think anyone is ever the only one to do anything.

Refresher of post 156

I can't help just yet with the little HV motor circuit. It's been raining the last few days here in Phoenix and the cats are inside. They do have a habbit of jumping on the workbench unexpectedly, so I can't make any sparks for awhile. At least it's not cold. (40 C)

I discovered a circuit around five years ago which helps to understand the patent. It makes an interesting effect, similar to the Water Sparkplug - without the light or sound. The spark just goes pht, puffs way up, and becomes completely opaque. With some of my experiments, I lost the diode. Remembering that Gray had an Overshoot protection circuit, I thought I'd check it out, to see if it would protect my diode. I was surprised to see that his circuit was pretty close to my own.

http://www.freewebs.com/attatchments/pics/setup.jpg

In my circuit, the D shaped component is a defribrillator inductor. This is equivalent to a motor coil, except I can't get any magnetic repusion from it, due to the drawn out spark effect, although it does affect wood. With my three electrodes, the two gaps associated with the HV cap arc all the time, as also shown in the *975 patent. However, the third electrode is CLOSER to this constant arc, based on the distance between the two primary gaps. The patent circuit shows the third electrode spaced farther away. To add mystery to the situation, John Bedini's circuit notes show the tripple gap as I have it.

With my circuit, the third electrode arcs to the constant spark between the other two electrodes. This is how the top cap charges. When this cap reaches a certain level - or anytime I move the electrode back, then reposition it, regardless of the charge level - the 'switch' flashes over, producing my effect. And this effect I'm getting is positive, in that it produces a plasma, rather than the normal negative spark from a cap's regular discharge. (That's why the electrode has to be so close; a positive discharge is difficult to initiate.) I'm actually discharaging the positive sides of two caps - each through its own coil - into an inductive arc, although my bottom cap isn't really needed for the effect.

On the other hand, when the third electrode is more distant, as in the patent, the closer electrodes produce their arc, as shown, but there is no arc to the third electrode, and the top cap doesn't charge. But, in the event of a high level of negative charge build up (likely on the grid in the Tube) the third electrode would discharge to the others, with a negative spark. (Protecting my diode.) So, while the patent spacing appears to be correct - to an unskilled reader - from the perspective of over voltage protection from the CSET's negative static charge buildup, this buildup would not occur with the alternate arrangement.

But this still leaves the question of how the top cap gets charged, in the patent circuit. Early in the patent, it says that the motor coil produces an inductive kick as its field collapses, with this voltage being in the same direction as the original potential. So this would allow the "strong positive charge" buildup on the cap, after several pulses. Then, when it talks about the Overshoot Switch, it says the motor produces negative spikes (in that direction), and that this is what the Switch protects against, with these spikes carried to ground by transient voltage diodes 44 and 46.

To further complicate the matter, reports have it that Gray didn't actually use the top cap to recover energy, since the motor produced so much torque that he was able to recharge the batteries with an alternator. Like you, I've thought for a long time that this electrode arrangement might be the secret to how his motor worked. But, without the top cap there is no exotic effect. Still, this doesn't mean that Gray didn't use the cap. It just means that he didn't discharge it across the battery. If Bedini's notes are correct, then the actual circuit is similar to mine. If so, and if this Item 42 is the secret to the operation, then there may be something missing from the circuit. Video of the motor in operation shows the CSET powered by a fairly large transformer. This looks adequate to charge the top cap with each cycle, but not through the time constant of the motor inductor. There might need to be a way to switch the cap directly to the #42 electrodes, for charging, then back in series with the motor for discharging. And this would have to happen between each pulse of the motor. This would then produce a biphasic potential through the motor, increasing its power. So, as you say, this Item 42 would also fire between the pulses which power the motor. Of course, some of this cap's charge comes from the diode T-tap, to the grids. The cap won't *automatically* discharge through 42 without nearly a full charge, but the extra charge from the T-tap may be enough, even with the motor's time constant limiting the charging rate from the other direction. Everything would have to be precisely ballanced. And the CSET itself doesn't fire with too high a pulse rate, so there may be several cycles from the transformer per discharge.


I'm still thinking about this. Now I have one more angle to consider. I think we may be getting close. John Bedini is pretty adamant that the motor will work without the CSET, perhaps using just the Ignitron. This is what Gray used to power his mass driver coils, later in his career. You and I may be right that Item 42 holds the key. I think I'll set up an experiment pretty soon. Maybe even a small test motor. Using this extra switching sequence, I should be able to get my effect more rapidly.

I'm sure Ed Gray knew exactly what his circuit was doing. So why did he have to hire someone to write the patent? Maybe it was because he couldn't figure out how to dance around the issue of this top cap's function, and obscure the patent, thereby hiding the true configuration, and function of Item 42.

[Aaron]

@beshires

Refresher of post 156

Thanks for the Refresher Beshires

I really think it is great all the experiments you're running and posting but please don't feel that you have to be disrespectful to someone else's work even though he complimented you: "I still have a lot of work to do before I present it in a "Real Ed Grey Motor" Video. Dis aint no spinning disk pulse motor." Those kind of comments are necessary. I said before you can post what you want about your stuff without including something negative about someone else's work. Talking about yours as "REAL" implying his wasn't, etc...

With your eagerness to point this out to me, if you really understood what Electrotek said yourself, I highly doubt you would have been trying to convince anyone you had magic by conventional cap discharges into your coils like you showed claiming it had anything to do with Gray's patent.

As you said you sometimes need a tutor and asked me to point out how my simplified diagram related to the Gray patent. It even relates to the diagram below. So basically, please don't point out something to me in that way especially as evidenced by your own lack of understanding of it based on how you were conducting your own experiments that weren't even in the same ballpark - you were playing your own game entirely.

You may think that was the same as the diagram here:


What you showed before has nothing to do with this or related concepts. You got what anyone would expect...discharge a cap into two coils wired in series then flip one...they will repel. If you actually do it like the diagram you keep pointing out, then you'll be taking it to the next level but have you made the connection to this diagram and what I have been saying?

1+1 doesn't have to equal two. Meaning, doing essentially one half of the cirucit has nothing to do with the whole circuit. You need both sides to get an increase. I'm referring to what you were trying to do before.

The difference is that the above is a variation of colliding two high potentials into each other and forcing them to a common ground. It can also be done with or without gaps and one single switch so that the coils are already loaded with the positive potential and a few strategically placed diodes. I've already done it both ways but go ahead and see what you find you like the best. The ONLY way you're going to know if those coils are doing something different is to scope them like in the diagram and then only one half of it with a single cap discharge into just one coil...that will tell you what the deal is. My scope isn't suited for this because everything is out of the range of what I need to see...at least as far as I've found.

What I said was: "If that isn't what Gray had, then I discovered how to change the inductance of an inductor allowing a super fast discharge into it even with super thin wire and a lot of windings to give a super fast magnetic pop. I don't know anyone else that has ever done this and if Gray or Marvin Cole did, then I found what they did."

I was the first to show the green light phenomena of a superfast magnetic coil charging effect based on the mixing of energies and forcing them to common ground. I still don't know anyone else that discovered that effect. Did Gray or Cole? I don't know - I'm guessing they did but until I showed what I showed, I think there isn't anything else that matches the KEY that Hackenberger spelled out in his own words...Static and DC mixing...series of capacitors. DC could also mean a capacitor.

Just because I didn't spell out in the past that possibly the inductance of an inductor was changing...I did use what I thought was very clear analogies of explaining that exactly with gas pressure analogies. Electrotek wanted someone to get the idea of that from his post but apparently I already had the idea but discussed it in non EE terms so maybe nobody got my idea. Mlurye showed his motor with the effect in a very simple way so it is obviously repeatable and predictable once certain parameters are followed.

I've demonstrated this as far back as August on youtube before they yanked all my vids and I reposted the silent plasma vid again in October. I believe I showed the effect then and therefore discovered it (for myself) back then and that is what lead me to replicate the coil popping, which I did at a very small level and the end of last summer based on the mixing of the potentials forcing them to ground with or without the tube and this was way back then.

[Aaron]

@Electrotek

Aaron: Don't you remember that I discussed this same thing, back in message 170 (page 6), using the setup I detailed in message 156? I was hoping that someone would get the idea to "change the inductance". I don't think anyone is ever the only one to do anything.

Electrotek,

Yes, I remember your posts about that and explanations about your diagram. I apparently already had the idea but saw them in my own way with the gas pressure analogies. I hardly ever refer to these concepts in EE terms because that isn't what is natural for me.

[Beshires1]

First off I wasn't disrespectful to ANY one. I was stating in my thread that my replication motor is not a spinning disk pulse motor. As most motor replications are. I feel that the timing of the magnetic fields of two electro magnets slamming together in repulsion is the where the Grey Motor got its high torque. Pulsing one field into a existing field will not get the same effect. I stated mine is a real replication because frankly, it is.

I wasn't trying to point out diddly to you. I went back and found Electrotek's post, and copied and pasted, to make it more convenient for others to reflect upon. Thats all. I didn't expect you to get your panties in a wad over my post in my thread, or being helpful to other members of this forum.

If you feel you must build the Grey circuit a certain way, then by all means go for it. But stop trying to Analise my statements and make them into something so you can bash me. I dont like it and its rude, to me and others who have to read that crap.

[nat1971a]

You guys crack me up - thanks for the good laugh!!! Just what the doctor ordered.

[nat1971a]

Welcome freeukpower!!!

[Aaron]

@ Beshires

Beshires,

I don't buy that as an authentic response.

Anyway, back to work.

[Jules Tresor]

What a sales man Aaron !

Hi Aaron,

I just saw your new webpage presenting you 4th edition of Th Quantum Key.
I ordered the great package for USD 37 only !
Getting all this stuff in one package is very interesting !

I can understand that you must be under high stress for doing all this work at the same time, thinking, writing, tinkering, webmastering, promoting, modering and etc ...

Are you a Superman ? or E.T. hybrid ?
Anyway for me you changed already the future to come with your large work and all this domains !

Congratulations and thanks for us all,
MDG

PS: I wish u best financial success, you deserve it man !

PS2: I never saw or read on Green Radiant Event before you brought it up here ! One for you Aaron !
Keep on the great work, we need you !

[boguslaw]

Aaron

We are circulating around very close resembling concepts.
Look for example at this post : http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post38238

I still state that it's only half of solution. Second half is a method to multiplication of effect by using magnifying transformer.

[Aaron]

persistence

Thanks Beshires

I found something else to validate my ideas and I probably wouldn't have found it unless you were so persistent about following the diagram in the patent you kept posting. and

[Aaron]

Thank You Stephenafreter

Hi Aaron,

I just saw your new webpage presenting you 4th edition of Th Quantum Key.
I ordered the great package for USD 37 only !
Getting all this stuff in one package is very interesting !

I can understand that you must be under high stress for doing all this work at the same time, thinking, writing, tinkering, webmastering, promoting, modering and etc ...

Are you a Superman ? or E.T. hybrid ?
Anyway for me you changed already the future to come with your large work and all this domains !

Congratulations and thanks for us all,
MDG

PS: I wish u best financial success, you deserve it man !

PS2: I never saw or read on Green Radiant Event before you brought it up here ! One for you Aaron !
Keep on the great work, we need you !

Thanks Stephenafreter! I appreciate the support!

Actually, when I was 14, I walked out the front door of my home in the middle of a midsummer day to go riding bikes with my friends, but the very moment my foot hit the sidewalk, I woke up 10 hours later 2 floors up in my bed with all my clothes on. Truth is stranger than fiction and this is part of the reason I'm involved with what I'm involved with and will talk about details at some later time.

Take care and thanks again!

[Aaron]

link post

Aaron

We are circulating around very close resembling concepts.
Look for example at this post : http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post38238

I still state that it's only half of solution. Second half is a method to multiplication of effect by using magnifying transformer.

Boguslaw,

Towards the top right of ever post is a "permalink" but to the left of that is a link with a #..can you post that link instead because that will take me straight to the exact post you refer to. I'm not sure why the post # links just go to the thread.