Gray Tube Replication

[Electrotek]

I think you're right that there will be more force with the HV, when both voltages pull the same Joules. Voltage equates to velocity so the HV Joules will be applied in a shorter time. In the patent, Gray states that the counter productive CEMF increases with time. If so, a faster pulse would produce less of this counter reactive force as the voltage in the coil rises.

Tad: Here's a post on another thread which backs up Gray's statement about minimizing the CEMF with short pulses:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3806-back-emf-vs-collapsing-magnetic-field-spike-5.html#post52026

edit: message #137

[Electrotek]

Tad: That's interesting about the Marx Generator. I know they'll work quite well at the appropriate frequency.

I'm thinking about getting a Smart Drive motor from a Fisher and Paykel washing machine. I hear they're around $50 on E-bay.

[UncleFester]

I think you're right that there will be more force with the HV, when both voltages pull the same Joules. Voltage equates to velocity so the HV Joules will be applied in a shorter time. In the patent, Gray states that the counter productive CEMF increases with time. If so, a faster pulse would produce less of this counter reactive force as the voltage in the coil rises.

Thanks for the input, I will build a test setup and see what the difference is. I plan on building the motor after I build the Lindemann attraction motor. I already know the Gray tube works, so it's kinda pointless to play with it without the motor side.

My original experiments used a Marx generator to fire the Cset, worked very, very well.

Tad

[Electrotek]

Alternating Sparks

Here's a new circuit I set up:



The Sign Transformer is center tapped, so the voltage is only 6kV. The 1uF MOC works fine at this level. The two inductors in series with the caps are from defibrillators, but the secondary windings of MOT's work almost as well. (The primary windings don't have enough copper to produce the puff sparks.) I'm using a single "hot stick" jumper wire connected to the middle inductor, switching back and forth between the top and bottom discharge electrodes. When I alternate the discharges at just the right speed, the larger cap charges up enough that a plasma spark will start appearing at both discharge points. After a while, the top cap fully charges, but this isn't noticeable - from the size of the effect - until it's discharged later. Once it's charged, I get a large puff spark at both discharge points if I use two jumpers at the same time.

I tried putting the inductor in front of the diode, as shown in Gray's first patent, but this arrangement doesn't produce the plasma effect. When it's in series with the capacitor, it produces a time constant, and this is what causes the effect. Changing the time constant of the transformer doesn't do anything.

[Electrotek]

Looks like a good setup Ren. I ran into an interesting effect years ago in that it appeared as though there was as much energy available off the grid as there was from the original input into the Cset.

I also have a theory that the same ampere turns/identical coils under this type of discharge will give more magnetic force than a low voltage/higher current source driving the coil would. This may be one reason the Gray system worked as it did.

My idea was to use two opposing coils, 1000 turns of 20 to 30 gauge wire and run a high voltage capacitor discharge through it, the top coil would be restrained by a spring with a scale. Get a baseline for force produced by the high voltage coil, and then run the same test on a set of coils with the same ampere turns rating on low voltage capacitor discharge of the same Joules and see what the difference is. I bet you will see more force produced by the high voltage discharge. I don't think science has identified this anomaly yet, but I believe it is there.

I think you're right that there will be more force with the HV, when both voltages pull the same Joules. Voltage equates to velocity so the HV Joules will be applied in a shorter time. In the patent, Gray states that the counter productive CEMF increases with time. If so, a faster pulse would produce less of this counter reactive force as the voltage in the coil rises.

[UncleFester]

Looks like a good setup Ren. I ran into an interesting effect years ago in that it appeared as though there was as much energy available off the grid as there was from the original input into the Cset.

I also have a theory that the same ampere turns/identical coils under this type of discharge will give more magnetic force than a low voltage/higher current source driving the coil would. This may be one reason the Gray system worked as it did.

My idea was to use two opposing coils, 1000 turns of 20 to 30 gauge wire and run a high voltage capacitor discharge through it, the top coil would be restrained by a spring with a scale. Get a baseline for force produced by the high voltage coil, and then run the same test on a set of coils with the same ampere turns rating on low voltage capacitor discharge of the same Joules and see what the difference is. I bet you will see more force produced by the high voltage discharge. I don't think science has identified this anomaly yet, but I believe it is there.

I like the way this thread is going guys.

I have been collecting some gear and taking notes. Ghst Im amazed at all the different effects you are finding, all from that ignition coil am I right? What sort of current or input are you pushing? Keep it up.

[Ghst]

"Nailed"

This is how I am currently setup.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/646/nailedschema.jpg

Ren, I really don't have a clue. The automobile points, are breaking six times per revolution, of the small ac motor driver, (see earlier posts) and I'm using a dimmer switch to slow the motor from full speed.
ImageShack® - ghst's Profile Page

[ren]

I like the way this thread is going guys.

I have been collecting some gear and taking notes. Ghst Im amazed at all the different effects you are finding, all from that ignition coil am I right? What sort of current or input are you pushing? Keep it up.

[Ghst]

Reiyuki, yes I'm using a inductor coil between "grid" and capacitor. I'm using the primary coil taken from a microwave oven transformer. The winding is probably 14 gauge, 100 turns. I figured that the less resistance would probably save burning out the fine wire coils. Its working great so far. also although I can get the effect from a single Cap, I parallel two microwave oven caps for a total capacitance of about 2.8 uF. One cap is 1.9 uF and one cap is .9 uF, the voltage is as high as the lowest voltage cap (I think). 1750 V.
I can also get the effect, forcing caps to ground, by wiring a additional cap to the HV as shown in the Grey Patent. I'm basically trying to find what will create the optimum effect, then go in that direction. I'll draw a schema to show exactly how to produce the massive nailed effects and post later.

[Reiyuki]

replicator and ancestor

Since I can't experiment, I've been digging a bit today. 2 'replicators' I'd like to share.


1980's German 'Pulse Discharge' experiment:
This experiment involved discharging 2 capacitors through a coil and resistive load in order to produce interesting' effects. Sound a tad familiar?

http://www.future-workshop.com/tachionator.pdf
Notable quotes:
"The energy beam, which spreads out in the experiment, was not a
conventional version of ion propulsion. This was easily surmised by:
the form and the color temperature of the spark in the spark cap
chamber..."
"The energy beam spread out direction of the sparkgap channel is
sufficient, at a distance of about 4m, to cause air to collapse
between the experimenter and the pulse device"

-----

Tesla coil vs Gray CSET

I always found it odd how all of Tesla's 'high frequency high potential' patents used 2 capacitors in his circuits. It came to mind that this setup is quite similar to the CSET designs. This seem a bit familiar?
File:EarlyTeslaCoil.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The patent now referred to as the Tesla Coil featured *2* capacitors of opposing potentials colliding with each other across a fast-break sparkgap. Shouldn't that make a small fraction of Tesla Coils overunity in some manner? Maybe not as most users 'tesla coils' look nothing like the patents.

I'll leave you all with this to look over in case it helps.
Overunity.com talking about Tesla's Radiant Energy quotes

[Reiyuki]

Elektrotek:

1uf might not be an issue. Power level (in joules) seems to dictate the minimum for an effect, because of all the similar replications over the years going from 50v to over 100kv, yet all using at least 2 joule in input energy. Finding the exact number ma

Electronics 2000 | Capacitor Charge / Energy Calculator

Your 1uf cap at 2kv will give you 2 joules. At 7.5kv it will give you 28 joules. doubling the voltage results in a LOT more strain on a cap, but it might handle it, you never know.

Careful with the 7.5kv transformer too; it's often 7.5kv RMS which means you could get peak voltages 30% higher than 7.5kv. Very easy to smoke 2kv rated capacitors at 10kv.

With the 7.5kv, I'd put a safety gap in parallel and guestimate the spacing. That's the easiest way to put a 'voltage cap' on your device.


..God, I'm loving this project. Such a simple design with wide margins and a clear sign of success (radiant events).

[Electrotek]

Ghst
YouTube - 1Ghsty14U's Channel
Ghst seems to be getting good flashes using only 1 capacitor and a coil.
- 1.6uf @ 1750AC cap (microwave cap)
- #22 1-200 turn coil, 5ohm or less, for sure.
- Ignition coil driver. Arcs look way higher than 1750, over 5kv is possible without arcing over a microwave gap.

Reiyuki: This got me to thinking. I already found out that MW diodes are better than 2kV. In fact, they're actually rated for 12kV to 15kV. So I checked on the capacitors, and they're higher too. Here's a link which says they'll hold up to 10.5kV:

Microwave Oven Capacitors

I should be able to use these caps with my 7.5kV NST. They're only one uF, but I've gotten plasma effects with much smaller caps than that.

[Reiyuki]

Ghst, whatever you stumbled on, it is interesting for sure.

So you have ONE capacitor and ONE HV diode and you're getting green flashes?? No extra coils or capacitors or diodes?
(EDIT: Correction, 2 capacitors were used in the experiment)

Battery
Points
Ignition Coil
Microwave Capacitor
HV Diode

If we can get real power from this, anyone with a soldering iron and a spare microwave could make one.

Keep up the great work, and keep us informed on the results of every variable you try.

thanks

[Ghst]

Things seem to be moving rather fast for me at this point. This nail setup is down right awesome! I think this is the video Electrotec was talking about. There is only one large massive burst but it is something. What you will see on this video is the predischarge. And it is large and it is not inside the tube. It is followed by a very fast massive green plasma burst that appears inside the tube with part od the plasma that looks like green fire on the outside of the tube. I think this effect is caused by the spiraling drill bit LV electrode. Here it is: YouTube - Grounded neutral grid
In this video the neutral Grid has been attached to the battery ground.

[Electrotek]

Plasma Projection

Ghst: Those are some very impressive effects you're getting. The multi gaps between the nail heads are equivalent to a string of small capacitors, or capacitive diodes at the high frequency imparted to the puff spark which makes it white. I'm especially interested in the discharge which projected some of the plasma outside the tube. Here's an arrangement I'm using which gives a plume of 2" to 3". You might try something like this, using a ring LV electrode outside, on the surface of the tube. Once we start projecting the plasma, the more we can stretch it (the arc), the more energy we should be able to extract from it.



I've got nine flat grids (aluminum foil squares), separated by dielectric, with a 1/4" hole down to the electrodes, and a water injection tube on the side. This is the same as a CSET, except there's no resistor between the grid ring electrode and the branch to the HV negative end of the spark gap, although it does work when I connect a resister at that point. edit: Also, as with your nails, there are no connections between the grids.

You can see that my grid block is carboned up really bad. This puff spark/particle accelerator cracks the water really well, but it also cracks the CO2. edit: When a CSET is totally enclosed, it probably should be provided with an internal atmosphere which doesn't include CO2.