Gray Tube Replication

[Electrotek]

Over Voltage Safety Gap

Any circuit which includes a spark gap will have transient voltage spikes. At a high frequency of operation, the potential can build up on a capacitor in line with the spikes until the capacitor burns out, swells up, or even explodes. To prevent this hazzard, and the unnecessary replacement expence, it's a good idea to use a safety gap, to automatically short out the capacitor if a certain voltage is reached.

I'm using a 1uF cap from a microwave oven (MOC). When this cap is powered by a 6kV NST (Neon Sign Transformer), it will discharge across an eighth inch spark gap about once per second. (The cap is rated at 2100 VAC, but it will withstand more when it's DC.) However, it makes a very annoying, really loud "POW" each time. So I put an inductor in series with the cap, which is the secondary from a MO transformer (MOT). This converts the discharge into a small, quiet plasma spark which I've referred to all along as a Puff Spark. This is produced when a HV capacitor discharges into an inductor, with a spark gap in the circuit. I can now run this cap, and safety gap, off of a 12kV NST, without the capacitor burning out. If I use the cap with a CSET, the Tube's spark gap will have to be shorter than the safety gap.

This circuit uses a High Voltage capacitor.


By inertiatek at 2009-04-19

[Ghst]

I've been testing the microwave oven transformer primary coils and found that, although two primary coils work well in popping coil demonstration, the coils do not work at all singly, to repel the two inch diameter N50 neodymium magnets I have assembled on the two magnet rotor. But a single microwave oven secondary will indeed cause rotation in my test setup. YouTube - Ed Gray Motor Coil Test
And all though the capacitor charges through the tube, when I trigger the discharge event manually, the discharge happens outside the tube at the triggering point. YouTube - Ed Gray Tube manual discharge

[Spokane1]

RF Burst Observed in Bench Test of Gotoluc Circuit

It appears that a sawtooth RF burst does take place in the Basic Gotoluc circuit almost like the SPICE III simulator describes.

This is not an exhaustive study but a simple test to see if it was there. The gap is composed of tool steel with the negative (ground) electrode being sharpened. The effect is much greater when the gap is opened up to just short of were it will not arc. In this case the gap is 0.284". The storage cap is a 25 uF 600V oil-paper motor starter type. The power supply is voltage regulated at 300V. The battery operates the contactor to isolate the capacitor from the power supply during a pulse test. The capacitor shunt diode is a little overkill for this application (770 Amp) but I needed something that would handle 30 Amps. The HV diode is a 4-unit string of 8KV at 4 Amp microwave oven devices. The coil is a GM wasted spark model ($3.00 at the local junk yard). This coil has an isolated secondary which might be important because it allows for the polarity of the secondary to be reversed (See SPICE circuit on previous post).

The first scope trace shows the voltage across the gap as measured with a Tektronix 12KV probe. The probe is being driven past its linear range for the initial pulse but it does show the follow up burst wave form OK. The effect only shows voltage swings around 500V. This means that the arc will re-strike at a much lower voltage than the initial breakdown, which is around 15KV in this test, but way off the screen.

The second scope trace is a time expanded version of the first trace. Here we see the sawtooth nature of this process. Notice how the magnitude of the wave train remains relatively constant. The frequency of a single tooth during this portion of the burst is around 116 KHz. The actual frequency content would be higher than this due to its shape. This sample was taken from the last third of the burst where the frequency is slowing down anyway.

It will be interesting to see if this effect can be enhanced.

This observation might help those OU theories that require a HF source to explain any proposed non-classical process.


Spokane1

[Aaron]

@Mark

Mark, msg for you in water sparkplug from me.

[Aaron]

other tests?

Mark,

There is one test that might - well 2 that I think might be worth doing.

With the simulation program like you did with the A circuit - did you ever do the B circuit yet?

Anyway, a combo of both circuits would be the full fledged booster cap method but leave the diode from the cdi cap to the top of the ignition coil.

Another consideration is that you may want a diode leaving the ignition coil HV output so that the booster cap isn't shorted out through the ignition coil.

Another test is to do the above, then add a load coil in between the sparkplug ground and ignition coil ground.

[Aaron]

update

I posted a couple of videos on the download page for my book so if you have it, check them out. I may post them on youtube eventually but if there isn't much interest in duplicating the circuit I won't.

Anyway, one vid shows the motor running at high speed and I show the square waves on the HV cap. Actually trapezoid if you zoom in enough, which I did. But that shows a one cycle charge and pulse - strings of them. My reed switch isn't ideal and I have to redo that method but anyway, I believe that string of pulses like that is when the rpm (magnets every 120 degrees) or actually pulsing speed matches the frequency of the power supply. 120 Hz DC. That may be 2400rpm at that point.

Based on this, the fastest speed so far on that motor is about 3500 rpm when I crank the cap up just a little bit more.

The geometry of relationship between coil core/shape and magnet relationship on rotor when triggered has been slightly considered where the core is slightly shaved slanted and moved a bit away from center so it takes advantage of and angular push on the rotor magnet instead of butting it too face on.

120 Hz (full bridge from AC 60 Hz line) - 120/3 pulses per rotation is 40 rotations per second X 60 = 2400 rpm. Is that right?

Anyway, even with the mechanical power you see in that video, the cap is only discharging an average of 1 pulse every 20+ rotations and at full speed it will give you a friction burn grabbing the shaft with your fingers and I don't mean a light touch where you're lightly touching the rotor, I'm talking about taking your fingers and squeezing down on the shaft. If there were 2 more coils on it for the other 2 magnets pulsing at the same time, forget about trying to stop it with your fingers - and this all with only 1 joule potential in the cap (1000v @ 2uf).

After it passes that synchronized point with the train of trapezoids, or even before that, you can see the stair step charging on the cap from the power supply. On the discharge when cap goes down the space between that and when it starts to charge again, it is ringing like a bell.

I'll put a second probe on the ac side of the bridge to see if it coinsides with the trapezoid discharge. On a 1 cycle cap charge and discharge, the discharge is faster than the charge.

Mark mentioned that his tests show the cap going negative, I have seen this a bit but mostly not. I tried the diode method he mentions to see if it did anything and the cap won't even charge. I do however have resistors in my caps for safety and I can't do anything about them since they're internal but I'm able to do what I can do here with caps that are essentially shorted out, I don't think anyone has any excuse not to make an incredible mean machine.

Magdude showed his motor and a simple diagram of his circuit. Kinda cheated with one wire going directly to the grid from the power supply I think but the mixing is still going on. Still, nobody is working on his circuit - maybe because he didn't reveal enough - I don't know but it seems he is drawing an awful lot of power to do what he did.

From what I can see in my experiments, the same can be done for a fraction of the power. I'm talking about a "pound for pound" comparison. Not a whole motor to whole motor comparison.

As a note, my microwave oven transformer to charge the caps had melting wires on the primary. I used a 1000v 6a bridge. It got hot like that when I turned the output up to about 700+ volts the variac started to humm and strain. I'm on my second transformer. I found out how to solve that as it didn't make sense to me that with the little power I'm taking from it that is smokes.

I used 2 diodes in series (6a100 diodes that are 1000v 6 a) for each quarter section of the bridge so I have a 2000v 6a bridge and I can do the same thing, get more out of the transformer without straining anything even up to 1000+ volts and at lower speeds under 500v, the core of the transformer is cold to the touch and at 1000v - has to run for several minutes to even detect any warmth. I'm sure someone with EE experience knows why my solution worked but I think the 1000v bridge held in too much back pressure from the voltage which backed up the system and caused it to strain like plugging an exhaust and straining the engine and making it bog down.

Anyway, I'm happy to not have to make a new bridge every run. Anyway, the vids are from weeks ago.

The second video I posted on my download page is simply showing that I'm charging the battery bank with one wire. Bank is 2 X 12v 7ah gel cells. It charges one wire with only ground connected to common ground. It charges with one wire connected to positive through diode bank to a point by the rods and grid and with the ground disconnected from the batteries, the batteries charge. It is a real charge not just voltage phenomena.

Anyway, with both terminals connected, it is mind blowing how it pushes the batteries and a little scary that even though the pulse leaving the cap is 1 joule max, it is 1000v so do this at your own risk. I have already done those battery charger tests a year ago from the Gray circuits I came up with but this vid is with the high speed motor you see.

Lighty was right in the beginning mentioning replacing a lv source with a battery way back in the water spark plug thread. Even a 9000v battery bank was suggested (1000 9v batteries). Anyway, the current punch from batteries is more recommended without needing a power supply to charge it but honestly it is simply easier to get it to work with caps. And no, I didn't use a 9000v battery bank...just 24v at the most. With that bank as part of the circuit, I see no difference in the motor running, it is already getting the lv high current punch from the cap and the battery only makes the plasma at the gap a bit bigger.

The more I see the more I'm convinced Gray was totally clueless and wound up with a bastardized version of Cole's basic concept but as long as the principle is known, and I have reason to believe I have explained it, it doesn't matter because the principle can be directly exploited. Gray seemed to know the mechanics and sequence of events to get the event but I don't think he saw really what was happening. Just my opinion for now.

I haven't been able to do much lately with this Gray stuff because I've been busy with my web projects behind the scenes but hope to have free time soon.

[Aaron]

recovering spent energy in my Gray circuit

Posted another video on my download page for my book.

Just showing 4 ways to recover energy ont he same circuit at the same time.

1) Obviously there is the mechanical.
2) Recovery winding charging cap, which of course can be discharged to battery or fed back to input in a variety of ways.
3) Charging battery bank.
4) Producing heat with an inductive resistor in the circuit.

No efficiency claims, just showing what can be done.

[martin]

Aaron, where is this download page located?? I would love to see this.

[Aaron]

my book page

Hi Martin,

It is on the download page for anyone that bought my ebook.

I figured I'd give anyone a head start on seeing any of this
stuff if they supported my work. I might eventually post then
on youtube.

[Aaron]

One Wire Transmission

Martin, because you asked, I'll post another soon.
YouTube - Murakami-Gray 1 Wire Battery Charging effect

Description:
Just an example that the batteries can be charged with one wire off my version of the Gray circuits. I'm not saying this is ideal to do, just that it can be done. With both leads connected, the charging is absolutely incredible and a little scary.

[Aaron]

Gray circuit recovery

Martin, here's another:
YouTube - Murakami-Gray Recovery in 4 places

Recovery in 4 places.

Description:
No efficiency claims. Simply demonstrating 4 places to recover energy without requiring more input and without affecting mechanical work. 1) mechanical wheel motion, 2) recovery winding, 3) charging batteries, 4) making heat

[Aaron]

@ Martin

Martin,

When I posted my long post and mentioned the vids I recently posted on my download page, I intended for YOU specifically to respond to me and you picked up on it.

You had a post that I respond to months ago and it has been in my mind ever since and recently going over some old videos that I wanted to post, I felt it was time to revisit it. Edit - I'm not sure if anyone took advantage of it. I just found the post, I'll post it for you ok?

[martin]

Martin,

When I posted my long post and mentioned the vids I recently posted on my download page, I intended for YOU specifically to respond to me and you picked up on it.

You had a post that I respond to months ago and it has been in my mind ever since and recently going over some old videos that I wanted to post, I felt it was time to revisit it. Edit - I'm not sure if anyone took advantage of it. I just found the post, I'll post it for you ok?

Sounds good! Thanks for posting these. I keep an eye on this page daily, but lately I havnt had the time for much experimenting. Hopefully I'll get back into the swing of things before too long.

[Ghst]

Great work Aaron! Your circuits are certainly helping me to unravel this Gray matter! Anyway I have a question. Have you ran your high speed motor using batteries alone to charge the caps? I think I saw in the vids you posted, that you are using a Variac to charge the caps to power the motor and the circuit. If this is the case then I think there is a whole lot more work to be done. Alltho this method was probably one used by Grey on one of his many demo carts, we must not forget that he was planning on powering a automobile with at least one or more of the many motor variants he had built. Its impractical for us to think of a automobile powered by a motor that is powered by wall mains.

The more I see the more I'm convinced Gray was totally clueless and wound up with a bastardized version of Cole's basic concept but as long as the principle is known, and I have reason to believe I have explained it, it doesn't matter because the principle can be directly exploited. Gray seemed to know the mechanics and sequence of events to get the event but I don't think he saw really what was happening. Just my opinion for now.

This statement may or may not be true. Its irrelevant where Gray acquired the technology. But what matters is that the technology did exist. Your circuits and experiments in this area along with magnadude's motor are both very good simulations of the workings of what Gray was doing. But until we can build a Gray simulated circuit that powers a motor using batteries only as the source of power, (charging the HV caps then discharging them through the load coils to produce rotation, or work) Then I think no one can say that this is how Grey did it. If then, the facts that we do know are true, then today, its easier to say that, Gray had a motor that was truly unique, regardless where he got the technology, he had a motor that was powered by a almost completely self sustaining battery system, powerful enough and suitable for powering a automobile. As of today, we do not. I know that if I were one of Grays investors, I would not have found his demonstrations (where he powered 10 or so light bulbs. TV set, a electric razor and other items) to convincing, if he had to plug a cord into a wall outlet.
This is just my opinion, we have come a long way, lets just not say its "threw" before we finish the job!

[Aaron]

transformer

Ghst,

Yes, I'm using wall power. The cdi cap can be easily done with a battery as that is how cdi's are normally powered. The 4000v 2uf cap charged to 1000v is only 1 joule of potential. That is 1 watt second that is needed from the power transformer and it takes 1 watt second plus losses in that transformer to give me that. The amount that I am charging in the caps is well within the means of a 12 or 24v car battery bank to deliver.

I'm using wall power for convenience.

1 joule in the cap X how ever many pulses I get per second is the watt/seconds I need supplied to the cap and it isn't that much. But yes, with a microwave transformer powered by a variac, I'm using more than I need to. Also, the cap doesn't always drop to zero making it even easier to keep it topped off.

There is no question that batteries can deliver this, in my opinion. But if it is as efficient as what Gray was doing? I hope to be able to see that efficiency.

I'll post my other video that I didn't post on youtube yet and will respond to Martin and his past post that contained a response from Electrotek.