Electric Motor Secrets

[Aaron]

J

[Aaron]

Bob Teal - Magnipulsion secrets?

Bob Teal obviously had some secrets since the articles, the interview video, etc... show him demonstrating things that are not covered in the patents and he personally seems to have left this information out on how he did it. At least, in a direct way. By talking about collapsing magnetic fields, etc... in the interview and elsewhere are vague enough explanations that anyone "skilled in the art" will get what he is talking about and therefore making it unnecessary to even put them in the patents.

One thing is for sure. Patents don't mean much as far as being an authoritative document to allow duplication of a technology. Inventors are not required to disclose any more than is necessary to protect the concepts. To my underdstanding at least. I know a handful of people who have over 100 patents combined on many different technologies and plenty of them have a "fudge factor" in them. Enough to protect the concepts but not enough to duplicate the secret sauce that makes it do what the inventors are demonstrating.

Bob Teal says in the interview video clip that cemf and the collapsing magnetic field are the same and they are not. The cemf is obviously an active effect while applying the power mostly through induction I suppose and the collapsing magnetic field is a different event AFTER the power is turned off. 2 separate events. So, I think it is easy to see that his explanation of cemf and the collapsing magnetic fields are not entirely accurate, but I think common sense shows that he was aware of the concepts of what he was dealing with.

It appears that the Magnipulsion did not try to motor against itself creating cemf for the fact that lighting bulbs didn't force the input to climb up...the output isn't connected directly to the input. Also, the collapsed magnetic fields seem to be obviously used even in the interview's simple desktop example of that coil pulsing and the collapsed fields were charging that cap to 40volts from 12v input. Just about all of us who has experimented with John's circuits knows that the collapsing fields will charge caps like this so I don't think there is much debate there.

I am NOT implying that Teal was doing it just like John because I think there is no question that John has the world's most efficient way to do it. Teal has a tradeoff with getting torque out of his motor. And with some type of "iron keeper", etc... the spikes probably won't be super radiant like John's. BUT, whatever does happen to be there in the Magnipulsion type motor's collapsed fields will probably be recovered the most efficiently using John's method at least.

Bob Teal may have mentioned magnets but that is exactly what an electromagnetic coil is and that is also exactly what permanent magnets are. Both are magnets. One electromagnetic and one permanant. Since all of his explanations revolve around electromagnetic coils, I believe it is safe to say that when Bob Teal mentions magnets that it is synonomous with electromagnetic coils.

I personally believe that Teal's motor is an open system and his recovery is absolutely not locked into the input. I don't know if Teal charged batteries with the collapsing fields or not, but he obviously charged caps and lit bulbs with it and could do so without increasing the input necessary to power the engine meaning that the load is increased on the overall system but no more is necessary to run the engine. It is kind of a one way system. The input charges the coils and the collapsed fields are funneled to a capacitor/bulb system in one way or another. That output and being able to power bulbs from it obviously isn't dependent on the direct input to the system. How? I don't know exactly how he did it but it is obvious he did it.

Maybe he had some diode leaving the coil to the cap when coil is shut off or maybe he had a secondary winding going to a bridge then to caps. Who knows? Those are the only two ways I can think it was done and that is because those are the only two ways I have done it in my personal attempts of bulding some of John Bedini's circuits and of course that is because that is what John shared with everyone.

With the torque, Teal explains about when the coils are turned on are definitely not at "bottom dead center" but upwards through the swing to take advantage of that force instead of sucking the rod straight up on the crankshaft. That is a very powerful concept and seeing some of the old motors are doing it inline which is very power robbing. Doing it partly through a swing turned on by whatever switch you want seems to be a very significant step towards higher torque in this particular model.

With the collapsed magnetic field, that will not "push" the rod out furthering efficiency, if anything, the collapsing magnetic field will suck the rod in even further and stronger. The iron is not polarized like a magnet so to speak and will just move towards the coil no matter what polarity the coil is at. So, turn the coil on when the rod is moving into the coil, turn it off before it gets all the way in there, the collapse will further suck the rod in plus whatever collapse is there..., a part of it will be recovered to a cap or whatever in addition to providing further mechanical work (when no more power is supplied) at that moment. This is a very powerful concept I think.

no backemf
more torque for less input
recovery of the collapsed fields

Magnipulsion did these.

Are the secrets revealed on how Bob Teal did them?

It is possible since Bob Teal never revealed them himself I suppose. I believe Peter said something like "even if this isn't the exact" method that Teal used, it had to fulfill those certain parameters.

Back efm is back emf and to get around having more cemf when increasing load the motor obviously had to apply certain principles.

More mechanical work with less input with turning on through the stroke and not at the bottom of it plus on the turn off, the collapsed field will further produce more mechanical work in the forward direction.

Recovery of magnetic collapse, Teal did this by what exact method? I don't know but it could have been by 2nd winding through bridge or diode from the coil...people see the diode leaving the collector but I see it as being at the bottom of the coil.

I learned a lot in Electric Motor Secrets because my experience with conventional motors ended with my RC cars back in the late 80's in Japan with the Tamiya kits. I know I push forward on the control and the car moves. That was about it. I have the general understanding of conventional motors, but Peter's video did clear a bunch up for me.

It may be in a lot of conventional language but I think that is a good thing because even though the virtual photon language of Bearden is probably the most accurate explanation for all of it, it is very difficult for many people to grasp and it just has to be in simple language for the masses to get it. Especially conventional motor designers who don't believe it is possible to increase the load without increasing the input amp draw. We have all experienced this with Bedini motors. I think Peter deserves a lot of credit for making it "pallatable" to non "free energy" buffs.

Bob Teal was obviously either holding back in the patents or came to further realizations after those patents as shown in the interview and articles. Whatever the case, I feel it is very worth of further discovery.

On a final note, John asks that everyone please not email him asking him about the Electric Motor Secrets DVD. He is too busy dealing with his own business and technologies. He will just refer you here anyway since this forum is where you ask questions about the dvd. He'll also ask you to just ask Peter since Peter made the DVD. John is swamped with emails about this and doesn't have time. Please respect this. Look what John has already given to the public so how could anyone ask for anything more. If that keeps up, people will start emailing him asking where to get the magnets!

Anyway, on that lighter note just remember that there is nothing like actual experimentation and one experiment is worth a bajillion opinions.

[Ted Ewert]

Give up? Heck no!!! I'm going to build me one of them over-unity dynomometers if it's the last thing I do.

[Eric]

ok i am going to just say my 2 cents worth here, you wont hardly see me at all on a disscusion group as i have learned that its easy waste a ton of time following various discusion groups on the web. most of my time will be spent actually throwing some money and time "building something" i "think" will work based on what i "learned" from the dvd.
I know what its like not having a lot of money, im not rich, christ im just a pizza delivery driver!! (plus i have no formal background so i am learning and thinking as i move ahead) but what i do know is that it is easy to be afraid to fail.. we all grow up being taught that its bad to fail. you get in trouble for getting D's in school instead of being "encuraged" (a reprimand is discouragement) to use that grade as a starting point to improve. this is one of many examples of how we are taught as we grow up. ironicly (and paradoxilly) if you look at sports, like baseball, a designated hitter who is ranked at 300 is considered a verry sucessful player and also makes waaaaay more money than a 200 hitter. ok now lets look at that 300. that 300 means that out of a 1000 swings he hit the ball 300 times. that means he "failed" 700 times!!! funny how we are taught its bad to fail and the baseball hitter is making more money now because he was willing to go out and "risk" failing the most!! what he knows and you dont is that failure is a nessary building block to achieving!!!

ok why this lenthy discription, because based on what i am reading on this group YOU GUYS ARE LOSING THE FOREST FOR THE TREES, (yes i am yelling to get your attention) LOL i even know there are many of you out there in the world who, in the back of your head, are telling me that i may be a pizza driver with not a lot of money but i(meaning you) have even less money to lose. see you see fear of bad consiquences and a reprimand set in and your reduced to speculation instead of taking a swing at it. look at how you guys are nitpicking peters new dvd. look at how rick is nitpicking the credibility of peter and his dvd. look at how your whining about how there is no reveiled secret in "bob teals" design and...how did rick put it "Teal is made to be the grand savior of the environment and world economy when nothing significant is presented of his work" . jeez its a friggen piston design with tie rods and a crankshaft that will wear out and break. (a simple shafted electric rotary design is much simpler and more elegant) if you didnt sleep through the beginning of the dvd you would have realized the secret lies in harnessing all the unopposed magnetic torque, and recycling energy is an added benifit to this. bedinis monopole "only" focusses on maximizing the energy spike, for torque its gutless. teal was an example not the definative solution. its like you guys want the answer spoon fed to you or something, and you would probably like it for free to boot!! im sorry but if you want a step by step direction list you can follow with out thinking then you should be paying peter waaaay more than 30 dollars so he can think for you! i dont know where i heard this or if its true but i heard "the average person spends only 5 minutes on oriiginal thought in a typical day. it used to be 10 min before television was invented!" sounds scary to me!!

so back to the dvd, you guys completely missed the boat on whats important. the 1 piston motor, the teal design, peters own flux motor design (of which you guys expressed no interest in at all in the previous posts, probly because peter didnt spoon feed you the "how to" directions for that motor in the dvd haha), the executive desk top toys, even the hypothetical s curved rotor at the end of the dvd are all EXAMPLES of past work and present ideas. when i watched the dvd i did not think these wer the heart and soul of the dvd. again you guys missed the forest for the trees, i felt the most amazing and important part of the dvd was the detailed way he went about describing the shortcomings of the present day direct induction motor. and giveing me a picture like understanding of what really goes on in these motors. if i actually get off my armchair for a second and "think" about how much practical mechanical shaft work i can get when i have a motor thats not acting against it self i get exited! then add to the fact that not having money forces me to "think" more creatively. and find a "possible" solution to "relativly cheaply" modify a piece of existing garbage into a motor that might give me a similar result to peters flux motor idea that he allready built in the past! when i finnish it (in about 2 weeks from now) i will run it. compare input watts with "real power" out on a mini dyno test. then if it doesnt work i will learn all i can from it and move on (i wont whine and throw a fit) if it works then thats all i need to build a massive belief in my self and this idea that i can further learn how to calculate what i need to "build it bigger and better" .

there, its long and windy and a little harsh, if offended i appolgize (only if you dont fit the above description otherwise consider the harshness as a tonic)
point is you guys need a wake up call. so go watch the dvd (again for some)
and use your noggin to add something of value to this group. i will not post any more details on my ideas because there mine and you need to focus on your ideas, then if you need help with your ideas post your questions, of which i would gladly help you if i can (remember im learning to) so dont give up if i cant. just find some one who can, be it a highschool teacher or the local garbage man, you never know who has the answer based from there past life experence.

remember that in the dvd all peter did was show us what happens in a direct induction motor, share some history on alternative ideas, and.... this is the most important, he encouraged you to "experement" in the end of the dvd. this means learn to think, dare to try, and be ready and willing to learn!!

cheers!
Eric

[Joehan]

PESWiki

@Allan,

why you have the same information on your side ?

Regards
Joehan

[Joehan]

Houston we have a problem

We all still have much to learn here yet.
All the best Russ P.

Russel,
My point is not that Teal did or didn't have anything, but that we have not been shown how the very basic commutator switching could do 8.6 COP, which the ad said we would be shown all Teal's secrets. Just what kind of pulsing and switching is necessary to do that? No values of the little arc prevention cap and resistor are given. No instruction is given of how Teal powered those bulbs or fed it back into the front end or even if he charged other batteries. The only thing we have like this shown is the bedini circuit. I don't see any support for Teal doing what Peter claimed. Pulsed DC with conventional circuitry does not give you OU or COP 8.6. All of us have long seen this--the difference between pulsed DC and bedini recovery. The video, but for the bedini element, is conventional circuitry pulsed DC. I don't see it a secret now revealed because it only shows Teal's patent circuit and no recovery. I think the video is like an introduction to pulsed DC. Now we need to see just what is claimed, the secret of how Teal powered those bulbs with his circuit. Secondly, why conventional pulsed DC cannot produce COP over 1. We could see with those first motors shown on the bench that you cannot get this with constant current or pulsed DC. Then we could compare that with the Bedini system, as shown, and see some recovery. But if you remove the multistrand coil and transistors and put the one wire solinoid with very simple mechanical switching that Teal had with one arc prevention cap and resistor, what would you see? This is all that we have been shown that Teal had. If he had more then all Teal's secrets have not been shown. If this is all that Teal had then he had no recovery and thus far from COP 8.6. Does this make sense Russ and Aaron? Maybe I fell asleep and missed something when I watched it the other night. The question is not so much whether Teal could get 8 or 10 COP but was this secret shown? Not whether Bedini did this with a solinoid as we know John has done many things like this, but how Teal did this. The presentation puts Teal as the solution to the whole electric engine problem, but how so? Please help me understand as I am a very serious researcher.
Rick[/quote][/quote]

[Joehan]

Houston we have a problem

> > > > I saw Peter's first prototype on my first visit and was there when he was filming this latest film. Looks interesting. I like the monopole better but I have not replicated this yet (got started on it last year but never finished). This is one way to relatively easily replace the fuel heads on combustion engines with electric solinoid heads. And this solves the major problem with the degenerating batteries in the new hybrids...
> > > >
> > > > Rick
> > Aaron,
> >
> > I have watched the new DVD now and have not found it convincing. I don't have time to do a review of this long video.
> >
> > Number one concern: Bob Teal's motor did not have recovery. The motor shown was not Teal's recovery but Bedini's. Teal's was fundamentally different than Bedini's in this point, also that one is electromagnet and the other is permanent magnet. The capacitor WITH resitor does not hold the juice because it is a resistor, nothing is shown to support the suggestion that this is anything more than to help reduce the arcing on the contacts. So there is nothing really important with
> > Teal, unless there is some minor benefits with the kind of solinoid arangements.
> >
> > I do not feel that BEMF and charging of batteries with these kind of setups is covered sufficiently or even correctly. The video starts off with conventional theory in this matter and it is hard to follow where or if he departs from that. How can conventional theory explain the charging of batteries in Bedini's recovery system? This is fundamental.
> >
> > We do not see Teal's setup run, nor it's efficiency to be able to judge Peter's claims in this respect. However, the one shown is presented in a way that appears as if it is Teal's motor. I have seen this run in person and saw the circuit and it is not Teal's circuit (that is the motor shown running charging the battery). No testing of the torque is shown on this as on the conventional motors previously (besides a small generator powering a bulb very very shortly).
> >
> > I'm not going to comment on the Lindermann Rotary Attraction Motor because none is shown running.
> >
> > Everything about the DVD sounds conventional but the minor points relating to Bedini's recovery.
> >
> > All other statements relating to other inventors were not
> > demonstrated.
> >
> > Further, I do not see how the COP = 8.6 near the end of the video in his COP Analysis. I don't see several points explained or supported.
> >
> > At the very end he says "Motor designs that produce no back emf have been around for 170 years... These designs use a single electromagnet to attract a piece of iron and never use permenent magnets at all."
> > This is not correct and I wonder why this statement is made.
> Perhaps this is one of the several mistakes made in the editing.
> >
> > And what follows about Teal's system being so good was not established in the video.
> >
> > These are my thoughts about the video in the process of watching and finishing it.
> >
> > Rick Friedrich

rickfriedrich wrote:
>
> Aaron,
>
> Below is the quote from the website where you order the DVD. Notice that it says that Teal's "engine produced COPs between 8 and 10." In the video I don't see any supportive statement about this claim and I don't know if it even was claimed (from the video or reading the patents myself almost 2 years ago). Maybe Teal made that claim somewhere, I would like to know that. The only statment about COP = 8.6 in the video that I remember was in reference to some kind of calculations of a solinoid setup with Bedini recovery, where 85% was factored in as recovery, so this does not at all support any COP greater than 1 with Teal. Again, without the Bedini process I don't see what is significant about all this. However, if the collapsing field pushes the rod away (while the swtich is disconnected) then I suppose you do have some additive nature in torque benefits, but the cap with resistor would seem to prevent that. Nothing is shown in the video about this because Bedini's circuit was used instead.
>
> Here is the quote:
> Free Energy - Electric Motor Secrets, Bob Teal | Magnipulsion, Edwin Gray, Nikola Tesla, and other books & videos by Dr Peter Lindemann <http://free-energy.ws/products.html>
> "Electric Motor Secrets by Peter A. Lindemann, D.Sc.
> Laying dormant within the modern electric motor is a deep, dark secret. For the last 176 years, that secret has held the electric motor to its present level of performance. But in 1975, a quantum leap in electric motor design was made by an American inventor named Bob Teal. Teal's Magnipulsion Engine produced COPs between 8 and 10.
> Using lab demonstrations, patents, diagrams, and private documents, Dr. Lindemann takes you on a trip through the history of electric motors, resurrecting the secret of Magnipulsion, and revealing the future of electric motor design. (2 hrs 30 minutes)"
>
> Here is another quote of interest:
> Free Energy, Bob Teal | Magnipulsion, Dr Peter Lindemann
> <http://www.free-energy.ws/bob-teal.html>
> "After retirement in 1972, Bob and Beatrice moved from Honolulu to Madison, Florida. Like many creative people, "retirement" didn't agree with him. With nothing else to do, he decided to build a model of the sci-fi engine he had invented for his novel. It worked! The Magnipulsion Engine produced large amounts of mechanical energy while running on small pulses of DC current to its electro-magnetic coils.
> In addition, when the power coils were turned off, the circuitry could also recapture most of this input electricity from the collapsing magnetic fields to recharge his batteries or run other loads. It was a quantum leap in electric motor design."
>
> I don't see how the circuit would give this much mechanical, I did not see large amounts of mechanical, nor could the setup as shown in the video recapture really any of the input. The only capture was due to Bedini's recovery system placed on Peter's motor.
> Now, I just saw the short video advertisement for Peter's video and it certainly claims to use the BEMF, and it shows it supposedly running bulbs with no hinderance to the motor opperation. But this does not result from what is shown in the patents or what Peter showed of Teal's system. You would have to modify this the right way.
> What I do see is that Teal's system as shown may prevent the destructive BEMF from flowing back, by flowing into the cap while the resistor right away drains the cap but not recharging the battery. So the hindering of the BEMF makes it more efficient, but it is not captured to any use as shown. You would have to gate it out of the system the right way to be used, as John has done. If he did do that it is not shown.
>
> In this short clip at the end we read: "Dr. Linderman takes you on a trip through the history of electric motors, resurrecting the secret of Magnipulsion, and revealing the future of electric motor design.
> You will learn how Bob Teal exceeded 1.0 COP with his Magnipulsion motors. For the first time in history, all his secrets will be revealed."
>
> But this is the very thing that is not shown. We do not see a Teal motor running in the new video.
>
> Further, the news article listed mentions that the setup had magnets. But the new video says it only used electromagnets and no magnets. Further quote "A small magnipulsion engine could operate a home cnetral air conditioner for about 50 cents per day." This was in the seventies. 50 cents today would give you 5kwh, and back then much more. So this is not a full recovery setup, and if this was true it does not seem as powerful as made out in the video. Maybe I am missing something here.
>
> Finally, reading the brochure by Magneteal Industries Inc., I see no statement of its efficiencies or COP, so I don't know where these figures come from other than the Bedini modification. The paper has several questions asking this very kind of thing and all that is mentioned is that it is but a fraction of what is used in conventional systems, or that it would cost pennies a day. $0.50 a day for central air in the 1970's. Anyway, I would be curious to see any specific claims or specific circuits that show recovery.
>
> Rick

Russel Prier <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Rick,
Dont forget a wirewound resistor is also an inductor I know of one person in the US who achieved COP of 8 by pulsing a resistor in the right way and at the right frequency.

[Joehan]

Houston we have a problem

@Peter,

it seems some wrong interpretation is circling around. The information from the Bob Teal interview made it worse and many are thinking about a simple BEMF recycler. In my opinion it's an addon and not the main key! It would be nice if you can make a clear statement here which i can forward to the gnosis forum.

Thanx,
Joehan

That's a post from the gn0sis forum
rickfriedrich wrote:
[quote]Peter L's New DVD shows no secrets as advertised. My comments are below these relavent quotes.

John_Bedini wrote:

Ted,
snip...
Also in the NEW movie, I built the engine you see running, I did the switching. as Teal's motor was not capable of charging any battery. the circuit you see with teal's drawing is not for storing energy at all. The circuit is a spark suppression for the points. The teal motor is not capable of charging batteries until you use the monopole circuit for recovery.
I'm not going to say anything more. Remember closing down all the fields is not an open system, no recovery possible.
John

Eddie Currentz wrote:

Peter L's New DVD shows no secrets as advertised

I hesitated to post this on this list because I don't want to distract anyone. But for the sake of the truth I had to write this, and John encouraged me to. I also have no personal conflict with Peter, my last visit with him was very good. This email concerns Peter's new DVD, and the credibility of free energy videos, etc.

Chronological Overview:
On my first visit (July 2005) to John's shop Peter was very nice and showed me many of John's machines. At the end he showed me this supposed Teal setup, which now I find out John really built (and not Peter, and it was also not a Teal machine but a Bedini machine). This is the motor shown in Peter's new DVD. I was allowed to film everything in the shop, and take pictures of everything but this setup. This was all hush hush, not for John but Peter everything about it was whispered. I was shown a stack of papers of old patents going back over 100 years, which John shared now that mostly came from him. So I went home wondering if this was the most important thing. I looked up the patents but did not find anything significant; and after a little experimenting went on from there to other more important setups.

The setup was what you saw, but had the hall switching, which may or may not have still been on there in the DVD. In the DVD you see no circuit but you can see 4 or 5 strands coming off of the coil and beside that another clump of strands together, which was a multistrand coil Bedini uses for stage 2 monopoles. These go to several transistors but they are not shown. All you see is a big aluminum heat sink. But the impression you get is that this is a Teal motor, which it is not as I write below.

On my last visit to the shop some weeks back Peter showed up now and then doing his own thing and adding a few comments about this window motor experiment and Mikes setup. He was filming this DVD by himself in the back. He talked to me about various points as you see in the DVD. I wasn't sure of where he was going with all this and didn't have time to get into it.

Not long after this time Aaron starting promoting Teal and this new DVD by Peter. So below you see the progress of the posts and my responses.

My concern below is this, that several things (secrets) are promised and not delivered. Secondly, we have no way of knowing if any secrets are known or if any really even exit. Thirdly, the only significant thing in this DVD is nothing new, but is John's recovery circuit. Fourthly, Teal is made to be the grand savior of the environment and world economy when nothing significant is presented of his work, while it is really John's recovery that has the most significance. Fifthly, the final motor is only theory and no demonstration is given, as well as no demonstration of Teal's motor working or recovering anything. All of this adds up to a big question of what is the purpose of the video? I am forced to say that it is not just bad editing but bad science. I only say this for the cause of truth. I wish I did not have to write this. I just cannot support these claims. Below you will see more details about specific claims in the book. Please correct me if I am wrong in any statements above or below.

Rick

> > > > a1c3m <qiman13@> wrote:
> > > > Hi all, we had to change the web address:
> > > >
> > > > Bob Teal missing interview:
> > > > Energetic Science Ministries | Bob Teal | Magnipulsion
> <http://www.esmhome.org/library/bob-teal/index.html>
> > > > You can now watch this on Youtube right on that page.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Teal discussion forum about Electric Motor Secrets:
> > > > http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/
> <http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/>
> > > >
> > > > Peter Lindemann will be posting some info about his new video release in the next 24 hours.
> > > >
> > > > Take care!
> > > > Aaron

> > --- In [email protected]
> <mailto:Magnetricity%40yahoogroups.com>, "a1c3m" <qiman13@> wrote:
> > >
> > > That electromagnetic piston is a pretty cool concept but in Peter's new video, he shows how he eliminated the need for that in a more simplified rotor style. Will be giving more details here:
> > > http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...lectric-motor-
> <http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/271-electric-motor->
> > secrets.html
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected]
> <mailto:Magnetricity%40yahoogroups.com>, Rick Friedrich
> > > <rickfriedrich@> wrote:
> > > >

[Ted Ewert]

NICE motor Ben! Were you pulsing it with a Gray type conversion tube? I would be very interested in seeing your circuit if you care to show it.
I have a question for Peter: What, if any, difference is there between your flux motor and a variable reluctance motor?
I can see why you developed that "S" rotor. Otherwise you would have a step motor. I can also see that pulse switching via detection of the armature position would be preferable. Otherwise you would have to slowly increase the frequency of the pulses until you got to the speed you wanted. A healthy flywheel wouldn't hurt either.
Ted

Hi Peter and all,

I built a small solenoid motor a few months ago while researching the Gray device. It is a converted R/C motor, solenoid driven, about 1000VDC 3-400us square wave pulse because of capture diode across coil to hold energy in the coil. Power comes from a step-charged 1uf, 3000 V. oilfilled cap, IGBT driver triggered by a photo-intrupter off the flywheel. Would run very fast but is VERY out of balance due to weight of solenoid plug. Probably had it up to about 4K a couple times.

I guess it is basically a Teal motor although I wasn't aware of his work in the past.

I watched the "video" on the web and mine is just the same but much higher voltage as I discovered the effects seem to multiply as the voltage goes up. All back EMF goes back into the solenoid to provide full use of the pulse for mechanical effort.

There is a picture at: http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/grou...view/df46?b=26

The limitations to post pictures on this site seem to be very limited so I just put it in there and they were gracious enough to accept it.

Could post a video if anyone interested.....

Enjoy
Ben

[k4zep]

Hi Peter and all,

I built a small solenoid motor a few months ago while researching the Gray device. It is a converted R/C motor, solenoid driven, about 1000VDC 3-400us square wave pulse because of capture diode across coil to hold energy in the coil. Power comes from a step-charged 1uf, 3000 V. oilfilled cap, IGBT driver triggered by a photo-intrupter off the flywheel. Would run very fast but is VERY out of balance due to weight of solenoid plug. Probably had it up to about 4K a couple times.

I guess it is basically a Teal motor although I wasn't aware of his work in the past.

I watched the "video" on the web and mine is just the same but much higher voltage as I discovered the effects seem to multiply as the voltage goes up. All back EMF goes back into the solenoid to provide full use of the pulse for mechanical effort.

There is a picture at: http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/grou...view/df46?b=26

The limitations to post pictures on this site seem to be very limited so I just put it in there and they were gracious enough to accept it.

Could post a video if anyone interested.....

Enjoy
Ben

[Peter Lindemann]

Back EMF Questions...

so even if teals system uses a electromagnet to pull on a piece of iron, which lacks its own magnet field, the eddy currents created will AS I SEE IT produce a back emf in the coil the ordinary way? correct me if I'm wrong here.

maybe that the back emf is present but way smaller than ordinary?
OR there are some other things in work here.


Lars,

Just to clarify one more time. There is ALWAYS back EMF in a COIL, both when it is energized and when it is discharged. This is caused by Lenz Law and is responsible for the "rise time" and "decay" characteristics of the current in the coil. In the attraction motor, where only an iron piece is attracted to the magnetic poles, all of the back EMF effects remain in the COIL and do not appear in the ROTOR or affect the generation of mechanical energy. In an ordinary induction motor, the current carrying conductors on the rotor also have a reverse generated voltage on them produced by their movement in the magnetic field of the stator. This effect is absent in the magnetic attraction motors I discuss. This situation produces a new set of advantages that are not present in other designs.

You seem to have plenty of interesting ideas to explore, and probably should wait to buy the DVD until others build some working models. You can always catch up later.

Peter

[Aaron]

Bob Teal misc discussion

Hi all,

For anyone who has not seen the Electric Motor Secrets DVD, please feel free to use this thread to post your comments:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/190-bob-teal-missing-interview-finally-surfaces-after-decades-searching.html

If you want a copy to see a copy, go here: Electric Motor Secrets

[Aaron]

Electric Motor Secrets Interview

Sterling D. Allan of Free Energy Now Radio Station interviewed Dr. Peter Lindemann about Electric Motor Secrets and Bob Teal's Magnipulsion Engine. Visit this page for more information: Bob Teal

Or use this link to listen to the interview directly or right click on this link to save it to your computer:
Electric Motor Secrets Interview 53 minutes long mp3 format.

[Larz]

No back emf?

Peter,

I'm trying to figure out if it is a must for me or not to buy this DVD of yours. I'm on a tight budget and there are some concearns about the explanation you give. so in order for me to decide if it is worth the money i have to cut through the marketing "glazing" and to really know that i can learn something by it that i can not anywhere else... generally the information is present if you try hard enough to find it.

anyway, take a look on powerlabs where sam barros shows his can crusher project. in it he says:

All of them share one thing in common: The use of a large, bulky, high-voltage capacitor to deliver, through a spark gap, a massive electrical impulse to a coil of wire inside which the can is inserted. This enormous current induces an even larger current (by transformer effect: Suppose the coil has 3 turns of wire. The can, representing a single turn, will thus have a current that is 3 times as large induced on it) on the thin aluminium surface of a metal can. This rotating current (also known as an eddy current) has a magnetic field associated with it (proportional to the current involved), which, being the same polarity as the field on the coil, will cause the can walls to be repelled and hence to collapse in upon themselves.

so even if teals system uses a electromagnet to pull on a piece of iron, wich lacks its own magnet field, the eddy currents created will AS I SEE IT produce a back emf in the coil the ordinary way? correct me if im wrong here.

maybe that the back emf is present but way smaller than ordinary?
OR there are some other things in work here.

My first blogpost on teslas battery-operated tesla-coil, shows how yoy can catch the voltage spike when the current is cutoff. perhaps you guys here can use this setup to power your coils? and to catch the kick-back. i believe that this is what john bedin does?

the motorcoil in teslas patent may be exchanged for your electromagnet and you may skip the primary side of the teslacoil completely. just short circuit the capacitor, open the switch, Cap charges up, dump the charge through a secondary battery bank, and start all over again. simple.

I was planning to build a motor on this design, that pushes on neodymium magnets, and to catch the voltage spike in the cap for recovery. and just by coincident happened to find this info about no or reduced back emf. i figured it might be even more economical in power terms than a bedini looking pulse motor. or EV Gray for that matter...

so i have not made my mind up yet if you guys have something special or not. time will definately tell... some of you, me or someone else will of course build a working electric motor that brings out a whole lot of mechanical work by just a small ammount of electrical input. this is the ultimate goal for the world, a goal we all should work together to achieve...

best regards,
Lars

[Peter Lindemann]

Lars and Ted

Hi Guys,

Lars, your experiment is missing a big component having to do with designing an efficient solenoid to produce high levels of mechanical energy. You really need to see the DVD before its worth discussing your suggestion. OK?

Ted, glad you "got it!" Before you build anything, contact me directly, and we can discuss what you plan. There are some subtleties to these things that may not be apparent at first glance.

Peter