Roto Verter

[esaruoho]

How about Kones OU Prony test?

peter, i hope this is a good page for info on konehead's RVprony-brake test:
Konehead RV Prony Brake Test

it does take a while to sort anything out of the RV. the 3 capacitor power factor correction isnt *hot* enough as a topic, even tho its cool etc, but then theres all these diode plug extraction circuits, resonance recovery, reactive power recovery, etc, etc, etc.

thank you for INVALUABLE comments on the recovery circuit etc.

me merely archiving RV stuff isnt fun but sometimes its too

[esaruoho]

panaceauniversity chapter 2 with a few recovery circuits

me merely archiving RV stuff isnt fun but sometimes its too

went around asking for some links to circuits to extract this stuff, and
was sent this.. hope it is enjoyable to anyone on this list.
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Chapter2.pdf

after about 65% through withthe PDF, it gets to the nitty gritty of extraction circuits etc.
theres even a nice circuit by phil, which is way more complete+fuller than whats on peswiki..

i really hope someone the pdf.

[Peter Lindemann]

Konehead's Math is Wrong

peter, i hope this is a good page for info on konehead's RVprony-brake test:
Konehead RV Prony Brake Test

it does take a while to sort anything out of the RV. the 3 capacitor power factor correction isnt *hot* enough as a topic, even tho its cool etc, but then theres all these diode plug extraction circuits, resonance recovery, reactive power recovery, etc, etc, etc.

thank you for INVALUABLE comments on the recovery circuit etc.

me merely archiving RV stuff isnt fun but sometimes its too

esaruoho,

Thanks again for the link to Konehead's Prony Brake test. From what I can tell, his math is wrong. I don't see where he is calculating the CIRCUMFERENCE of his shaft interface with the teflon friction boot. This is critical to properly calculating how many FEET are represented by the measured RPM.

He shows a one foot rod over to the scale, and tells us the scale deflection. All of this is fine. But the rest is goofy. 1800 RPM divided by 60 seconds = 30 revolutions per second. This "30" needs to be multiplied by the CIRCUMFERENCE of the brake interface to calculate the total number of "feet" the machine is driving into the brake. If the shaft is 2 inches in diameter, then the circumference of the shaft inside the teflon brake is 2 inches X 3.1415 (pi) = 6.283 inches = .52 feet. This means that every revolution of the shaft represents .52 feet traveled against the friction brake.

So, 1.56 Lbs deflected on the scale, times 1 foot moment arm, times 30 revolutions per second, times .52 feet circumference = 24.33 Ft-Lbs/sec produced by the motor.

90 watts input is equivalent to 66.35 Ft-Lbs/sec, since 1 hp = 746 watts = 550 Ft-Lbs/sec.

By these calculations, the motor is operating at an efficiency equal to 36.6% electrical to mechanical conversion. If the shaft is larger than 2 inches, then it is doing a little better.

I do not understand where Konehead's calculation of 398 Watts output comes from. His other example uses the same faulty math, so it is probably in error also.

If anybody sees a problem with my calculations, please show me.

Here is a link for the proper calculation of brake horse power using a device like this:

Do-It-101.com Chapter 12 of Practical Mechanics For Boys, by J. S. Zerbe, M.E.

Peter

[esaruoho]

to peter, but not about prony brake yet

this was sent to me from konehead, but its not yet a response to the prony brake. i h ope you will find it responseworthy. i have now relayed your message bout pronybrake to him, and will function as a conduit.

to save you time, i also linked to a non-yahoo-group link tot he gif he is talking about. hope this helps.
---
Hi Esa

can you send this to PL in that energy forum?

Hi Peter

Actually there are 4 points to trigger at in sinewave - the peaks,
neg and pos, likeyou said, and also the two "zero-line passovers"
too! (where they got the term "zero point energy" as John D Shnurner
told me many years ago on telephone....(Shnurner had a secret self-
runner for many years but sadly I heard he has passed away from heart
attack a few years ago)

There is other method to do this right here in files section in
EVGRAY yahoo board - "SNAG-219 by ccbern" - this circuit also clips
at sinewave peaks and is different but does same thing.
You should join this board again!
You left a long time ago arguing with Bruce Perrault but I kicked him
out a long time ago too so you dont have to worry about headaches
from arguing in EVGRAY - I am moderator...

Those high percentage of SCR failures were not installed in a sine
wave peak circuit - a guy (Dan Combine I beleive it was but not sure)
set up a test rig to test some SCRs he bought, and he got that big
failure rate in SCRs...so the circuit itself did not cause all the
burn outs. Seems hard to beleive the SCR manufactures are so rotten
but that is what he got...

I wouldnt call this a "recovery" circuit - a
backemf/recoil "recovery" circuti is what you want to put INSIDE an
INVERTOR powering an RV - recover backemf/recoil and put that into
caps - just like DC stuff but now you do it "both ways" since it is
AC....

I would call this a "non-reflective" pulsed power output
circuit ...mainly it doesnt LUG the motor down when you get power
output happening is its claim to fame...

Ash put up a video about two weeks ago - running massive light bulbs
with an RV setup - he installs the peak sensing circuit, and the
battery running the invertor in the system returns to its "idle"
voltage when the neo peak trigger circuit swoithes in....

I wouldnt call the RV messing with the reactive power either - or
power factor correcting....its AC caps you use not DC to get your
amps way down once you get the thing going - adjust the run cap UF
value to the load you have going is what you do (easy!!)

To be messing with the "reactive" power as you call it - what then
you want to do is start to make use of the "3rd phase" (AKA rotary
transformer phase or the run cap phase, or also called the virtual
phase or blank phase)
Technically I dont think this should be called reactive power, since
it is more exact to call it a rotary transformer phase is my humble
opinion...

Anyways this is alot of power that also can be tapped via sine wave
circuit and it doesnt affect draw to "prime mover" (motor)

Then after all this is the power of shaft too - whatever sort of
generator you want on that go for it...

Overall very very cool - too bad so many are so certain H is full of
baloney when actually people thinking that need to adjust their
thinking cap and DO THE RV EXPERIMENT THEMSELVES!!!!
IT is SO EASY - takes an afternoon once you get the parts to get it
going - tuning it and everything else takes awhile but is way simpler
than any DYI project to do free energy wise, plus motor is factory
balanced, with factory air gap tolerances strong as steel unit that
runs forever too and wont ever break down - cant ask for much more
except a permanent magnet rotor in a custom one....

once you get frequency adjustment, pulse width adjustment, and
voltage adjustment to your RV system then its REALLY something - not
just running on 60 or 50hx all the time...

ciao Konehead

(from Yahoo! Groups )

[esaruoho]

hector responds to peter lindemann recovery post

i was asked to post this to the thread, for peter lindemann.

Important: READ my comments within
Hector ...


--"esa juhani ruoho" <esaruoho@...
> newer circuit schematic for the neon peak recovery circuit?, please?

Given LONNNGGG time ago ......

Use Light dimmer circuit (2) remove triac use SCR and a pass diode
in series with the bilateral switching diode Make 2 units one positive
& one negative for full wave recovery ,
_
It will switch at TOP of charge slope but not before ...as neon does.

(now for the other comentary ...)


> ---
> Dear esaruoho,
>
> Thank you for this post and the link to the "neon peak recovery
> circuit". THIS APPROACH HAS MERIT!!!!! Going back to what I posted
> about Tesla's "Method of Conversion", clipping the VOLTAGE PEAK of a
> resonant tank created by an AC generator feeding a Capacitive load,
IS the first method he discusses. The trick is to clip the top of the
> voltage rise JUST AS THE CURRENT DROPS TO THE ZERO POINT. In a 60
> cycle system, that gives you about a millisecond to clip.
__________________________________________________ ___________________
Turn on within 90/360 R 1/360 + - R arc seconds of 1/120S top half
sine peak .
__________________________________________________ ________________

Capacitor in a tesla coil is Tailored to ARC gap Within PEAK of
resonance in a HV 60CPS LC setup ( Raivo got Corrected teslacoil
plans and I posted how to built a 10 to 40 KV tunable sliding
capacitor long ago to test this out ,

Using 3 glass plates 14x18 inches and 8x10 inch aluminum foil plates
the plates are tuned by sliding and offseting them to peak trafo
resonance ...

I can built 50 million volt 3 phase delta or Wye teslacoils (Easy).
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> Under these circumstances, this system WOULD tap Radiant Energy
> (voltage without current) just as Hector (apparently) claims. SIC*

What Hector CLAIMS and has being TESTED by engineers independently
is the WAY to CAPTURE radiant energy , AS RADIANT ENERGY IS RF and
can be NODE split using diodes as HOT carrier DIODES in FULL resonant
conditions or semy resonant ones .

(Just as Hector apparently claims.)

The 2 trigger systems are the best & more simpler to do by anyone .
With off the shelf circuits HACKS ...

PARTY strobelight circuits (Neon trigger )
Light Dimmers Downslope SCR (triac) trigering device (Switching diode
triger)

Its self driving ,simple parts , and as is PUBLIC aplication of
ALREADY expired PATENTS circuitry & NEW PUBLIC domain aplication of
SUCH to RADIANT energy ROTOVERTER RESEARCH it is UNLAWFULL and Inlegal
to even trying to PATENT the stuff (public sinse 1999 ..)

Keep copy , search old info , verify information ...

Thanks

Hector ~_~ !

from Yahoo! Groups (there was a bit more diatribe three on it)

lets move on!

[Aaron]

zero point energy

Zero point energy comes from....

Bring something to absolute zero and motion is supposed to stop...but it doesn't...there is still energetic movement... that is where the term zero point energy comes from....not from the zero current 0 point from AC.

[peper10]

Aaron!!!

By saying this,you don't disclame or bring something new to this!!
If he bring something that might WORK,there a bunch of guys
that gonna tried this..
We just start to discover how it works,and there's not so much
people who REALY know that!!
BTW ! The bedini sg and the other stuff that we work on,is it called
by commun people...:ZERO ENERGY Is it?????
I dont want to approuve or disprouve nobody here!! I just said
that,maybe we might take a look to it and see if it work???
You know ;Every road go to ROME ,like the proverb said!!!
The more and more we learn about this,the more we gonna start
to think....but first,we must IGNATE our MIND ..

REGARDS!!!!!!!!

peper10

[Aaron]

Hi Peper,

What I said doesn't have anything to do with the validity of any technology. It has to do with language and that is it. I can accept people saying "zero point energy" as a term for "free energy" type technologies...this term has made its way into the language far enough and is accepted as such..that is one thing but to erroneously say where the term "zero point energy" came from saying it comes from the 0 line in the AC wave, that is another and is incorrect.

Same as the term "overunity," which is an oxymoron, but it has made its way into the language deep enough that it has become accepted as being a common term to describe something that has over 1.0 COP.

Also with over 100% efficient...there is no such thing but there is over 1.0 COP...but when people refer to something as being over 100% efficient...that too has become a commonly accepted concept showing more out than the operator puts in...even though it is technically incorrect.

Just like many people think when they are capturing the collapsing field from a coil it is capturing back emf, but it is not. There is no more back emf when the circuit is disconnected and what comes back is the spike, which is not the back emf, which doesn't even exist anymore (since the circuit was disconnected).

When people refer to these things like this, I get what they are saying even though I know they may not be technically correct and they may not even know themselves the correct distinction...that is fine.

I'm very open to what others are saying and can look at anything with brand new eyes as if I never even heard the word electricity or anything else for that matter.

I simply believe that if everyone started to get on the same page with the same language on all the distinctions in this field, we can communicate and figure out what the heck we are all trying to say.

Anyway, I look at this thread on the RV stuff every day to see what I can learn from it.

[Peter Lindemann]

Esaruoho, Konehead, and Hector

Esaruoho,

My comments were directed to YOU, in response to your question to ME. That others may be viewing this thread is inevitable, because it is a public forum. However, the next time you answer my post with remarks from others, is the day I stop answering any of your questions.

Konehead,

I have taken up your offer and have resigned up to the EVGRAY Yahoo Group. My approval is waiting in the que. My Yahoo ID is PAL112358. Please approve me and call me on the phone. My number is in the comments box.

Hector,

I have NOT been a supporter of your project up until now. What has turned me OFF mostly has been my inability to make any sense of your writings, coupled with the multiple demonstrations of your ill temper. You seem to have very little understanding of how much this has affected other people's willingness to look seriously at your work.

From your own point of view, you don't need anyone else to approve of your work. Fine. You know what you have. Fine. Everybody else who doesn't see it is a jerk. Fine. That includes me. Fine. At least that is settled.

Be that as it may, you can be a genius in your own mind, but if you are unwilling to behave in a civil manner toward the rest of us, WE JUST WON'T CARE!! If your discoveries are important, then it is equally important that you do not project a persona that repels potential supporters. Regardless of what it feels like to be you, inside, the rest of us only see your BEHAVIOR. So far, as an observer from a distant country, I have viewed your behavior as atrocious, and your behavior has KEPT me disinterested in your work all this time!

I am going to look into this technology you have been promoting, starting now. But I am not going to put up with you projecting your anger and frustration at me because it has taken me SO LONG to become interested. You have a number of very intelligent people involved it this so far, but everyone is tip-toeing around, trying not to upset you, because no one wants your anger projected at them. Me? I don't care if you like me or not. My loyalty is to Science History and to Science Fact, as best as I understand them.

My goal will be to understand what this technology is and what it's historic roots are. At this point, my understanding is that it all relates back to Tesla's brushless induction motors, and his "Method of Conversion" processes for cracking Radiant Energy out of Resonant AC tank circuits. If you have found practical ways to accomplish this with off-the-shelf technology, then it is AWESOME. Secondly, I will try to develop a vocabulary that describes these methods in a way that is directly connected back to fully understood terms in electrical engineering. So far, I have not been able to derive these understandings from your writings, even if this is what you have been trying to convey. Since I do not understand your writings, I will not rely on them. The operating machines will tell me everything I need to know.

I am going to connect up with Konehead. He seems to have a fairly decent grasp of what your technology is. I have known him for 7 years. He lives relatively close to me (I think) so I can go and see his working models (I hope). In the meantime, please leave me alone and let me learn in my own way. Thank you for your understanding and patience.

Peter

[esaruoho]

hi peter. i've notified konehead to have him approve you. hope this will result in some good stuff.

in regards me getting a response from others to your response to my question, i apologize, but my understanding is limited to dcoffset, resonance, and digital distortion (clipping) on audio. i can use software oscillators to create impulse plsations of whichever pulsewidth and frequency i want, but that just results in wonky sounds, not anything else. i've been looking at the RV thing for a while and hoping it to develop into something that is attractive to people, not just splintered and detractive.

here's an extra pair of nerves for the hurricane H's effect on evgray. he'lltry and wind you up but as long as you don't respond to the cussing, and you display a greater amount of courtesy + gentlemanlike behaviour than he (is easy, i know ), we'll maybe finally get somewhere.

i am really hoping that you and konzen will get tao have a good chat about this stuff. all i can do is throw keywords out that i see connected to the recovery, and then function as a relay-conduit.

if one day i could do these things with hand-size motors, safely ( but im afraid of simply just dying if i muck around with highvoltages - i have nothing but an interest in understanding this stuff and this frequency multiplication), and i can get someone whom i trust to assist, i'll definitely be looking at various solutions, but from a "power a laptop+synth" angle. sorry. i wish i could talk the jargon and know what im doing, but all i can do is look at you all talk and see the connections. other than that its all to me)

>The operating machines will tell me everything I need to know.

i really hope that you and konehead will walk up to a table and you guys will get down to the nittygritty. nothing but good can come out of this

[ashtweth]

What a post thanks allot PL.

Aaron, know where your coming from, but this is a special case, so far using this "lingo" we have come up with circuits that behave as the lingo states , i know where your coming from, but with H, its best to go with the flow Bro.

I can see Aaron getting an RV, if you do and put it in another language its all still relative.

Ash

[theremart]

Rotoverter

Great! I like it when super minds bend and warp time

As for the RV, I am now shifting all my energy to learning how to program pic controllers. I am frustrated as I am unable to get the computers to talk with either of the pics I have purchased. But, hard headed as ever, I will ask those that know to point me in the right direction.

The RV is still not out of my mind, but I think I will look at the EV gray group on yahoo, and ask around to see what works, and works well.

Ash, I am very interested in the next steps on modifying and inverter. I am thinking I would pay someone to modify one for me, think I will ask Kone if he could recommend someone to do this task. I will survey what it takes to make this modification, but since I have no scope, I am not sure I want to invest in a scope, then in a project that will take me much time to do. I am thinking I would rather pay someone to do this for me who has the skill.

Much to think about, and it is so good to see teamwork guys!

[linesrg]

Correction to an earlier posting by esa

esa,

You posted earlier about the failures Dan(?) had with his SCR's when he tested them.

He did indeed make such a post but he also found (and I'm sure posted) that if you increase the 9V battery in the test device he had to 18V then the test device works properly.

I can confirm this as I bought such a kit here in the UK. I have never known of an SCR to be non-functional from new anymore than any other semiconductor.

I look forward to PL investigating the RV issue. I broadly agree with his sentiments with regards to Hector as well. Personally I find most of Hector's post to be unintelligible. That is not to say he's wrong, he may possibly have the way forward to solve some of the world's energy problems but he needs to communicate it better.

Regards

Richard

[Aaron]

RV basic ABC

Looking at some of the basic stuff on the RV, there is a prime mover (input motor) and an alternator (the output motor used as a generator that gives some phenomenal gain if hooked up in a certain way).

Even without the output generator, for starters, can we accurately say that the input motor will run more efficient when hooked up in a certain way?

Therefore, by itself, standing alone, the "prime mover" runs extremely efficient and even more efficient beyond what just power factor correction does?

[Aaron]

simple questions for definition

Please humor me on these simple questions. I already know the answers, but lets get the ball rolling ok? If this is painful for any of you, skip the message please