Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The bistander thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • bistander
    replied
    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post

    Green Revolution
    Debunked
    DELAYED LENZ, SHORTED COIL, ACCELERATION EFFECT

    Ultimately there is only one truth and one correct outcome. To date no one has been able to demonstrate consistently or in a manner that is accepted of any device like this example producing more energy than what was going in. debates will rage regard testing methodologies and data interpretation. No practicle device has ever been produced or put in to production or use. That is the reality


    We should however continue to research these anomalies and effects. To make progress we must also face the truth about what we are seeing. Rosemary Ainslie is a classic case of not accepting peer review and explanations from others far more qualified than herself or followers. It is not good perpetuating something based on a false premise or bad measurements. The argument here is not about criticizing or discouraging people, but rather sticking to science and correct science. There is no room more mysticism, mythology.
    When a member copies and pastes text into his post, they should be required to post the source. It wasn't difficult, but took a little time to find:
    https://revolution-green.com/debunke...on-effect/amp/
    bi

    Leave a comment:


  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Bi thank you for enlightening me on "stacking ". Matter settled.
    https://youtu.be/8x0LnLq17dc
    Last edited by Quantum_well; 02-09-2021, 03:17 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quantum_well
    replied
    I always wondered how these work.
    https://youtu.be/HGWJg7vAYBI

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Figuring out who is correct and who doesn't know squat is always the problem on the forum. I have found that the BENCH is the source of truth.
    Curious how you would use the bench to determine which one of us knows squat about laminations. Please explain the procedure that you'd use and why you wouldn't research the literature and/or ask an expert.

    Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
    ...
    Laminates keep the material from becoming saturated magnetically. When this occurs you get more heat build up and rotation slows. Up in smoke in minutes.
    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    ... Laminations actually, for equivalent volume, saturate a bit sooner than solid cores. Typically a small amount, percent or so. Small price to pay for energy saved in loss reduction.
    ...
    Please give your opinion. Who is correct? Does laminated material prevent a core from magnetic saturation or saturate a bit sooner than a solid core by what is commonly referred to as the stacking factor in electric machine design?

    Hint: Google search "magnetic core stacking factor"
    ​​​​
    Regards,
    bi

    Leave a comment:


  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Small engine ignition. A control coil on the leading leg of the core picks up a tiny voltage and a Darlington completes the primary circuit. When the control coil voltage falls the Darlington breaks the primary and you get your spark. By some means auto advance is a natural feature. A stepped flywheel key is a bit of a timing option.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Figuring out who is correct and who doesn't know squat is always the problem on the forum. I have found that the BENCH is the source of truth.

    Leave a comment:


  • alexelectric
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    Who do I believe? Bistander says laminated cores saturate sooner and BroMikey says laminates don't saturate.
    Can they both be right?
    From what you report here in the forum, there are some answers, what is missing or doubted, or that does not coincide, we proceed to investigate the various sources of information, update ourselves and continue learning new things, concepts, phenomena, variables, materials, energetic configurations, etc,

    Leave a comment:


  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Who do I believe? Bistander says laminated cores saturate sooner and BroMikey says laminates don't saturate.
    Can they both be right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Soft magnetic composite cores could be useful if they are carefully designed and manufactured. They do have eddy currents, two
    main types, intra particle currents and inter particle currents.
    Last edited by Quantum_well; 02-08-2021, 10:58 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    Eddy currents are responsible for braking effect. I think that is why electric machines have laminated cores which help to avoid the current flow. What would you say bistander?
    Eddy currents, and hysteresis losses, are responsible for magnetic drag, which is torque opposing rotation in rotoray machines. You can call this a braking effect. Actually it is core loss. Eddy current brakes are quite useful because they have no wear (friction) surface.

    Laminations are used for cores to reduce eddy currents. Laminations actually, for equivalent volume, saturate a bit sooner than solid cores. Typically a small amount, percent or so. Small price to pay for energy saved in loss reduction.

    The classic example of magnetic drag is dropping a magnet down a copper pipe. The "drag" is demonstrated by the fact that it falls at a slower rate than if it were dropped down a plastic pipe. Note that in this example, there is no attractive force to a core involved.

    Regards,
    bi
    Last edited by bistander; 02-08-2021, 07:02 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroMikey
    replied
    Originally posted by Quantum_well View Post
    Eddy currents are responsible for braking effect. I think that is why electric machines have laminated cores which help to avoid the current flow. What would you say bistander?
    You can't get very far speculating and asking another person who is the same as you to validate. You must do some experimentation to form a more rounded statement.

    Laminates keep the material from becoming saturated magnetically. When this occurs you get more heat build up and rotation slows. Up in smoke in minutes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    And you won’t do the simple experiment a 7th grader could do because it will prove you wrong and you know it.

    oh, and by the way, I don’t know if you are aware of this, but when you prevent the amp draw of the motor from going up and the rpm from going down, as this does, not only does it improve the output of the generator but it decreases the input in watts to the prime mover. So when you say it has NO effect on the production? That’s just another example of how little you actually know.
    Last edited by Turion; 02-08-2021, 05:47 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    You always want to argue semantics instead of principles. Because you are wrong. The attraction of the rotor magnet to the iron core has NO FORCE in any direction that "neutralizes it" UNLESS the opposition magnets are used. This is what I have said all along. As the rotor magnet moves past the coil core (Magnetic drag) there comes an instant in time when the two are perfectly aligned. There is NO force that offsets this moment in time. The attraction DURING THIS MOMENT is what you MUST compensate for. The attraction of the magnet to the coil core as it approaches is cancelled out by the attraction of the magnet to the coil core as it is moving away. But that instant in time exists. That attraction exists. and there is NO FORCE that neutralizes that attraction unless the opposition magnets are applied. The more coils you add and the more magnets on the rotor the more that instant of time is multiplied into thousands of times per minute. This is a force that causes significant amp draw in the motor. These are the FACTS. It is what I have stated FROM THE BEGINNING. A simple experiment proves I am ABSOLUTELY CORRECT and you KNOW IT. So you are WRONG. Always HAVE been wrong. Always WILL be wrong. This instant does not occur thousands of times per second without MOVEMENT which is the magnetic drag. There is NO "magnetic lock" because of the motion of the rotor, but that instant in time of PERFECT ALIGNMENT still occurs despite the fact that there is constant movement, so it IS magnetic drag, as I have said. And you are, how shall I put this, WRONG!
    Again you ignore Sir Newton's teachings. For every action there is an equal and opposing reaction. A force on an object has an equal & opposite force on it or an action caused by the force, like acceleration. In the case of the brick on the table, the brick experiences force of gravity in the downward direction. It doesn't move (accelerate) downward because the table exerts an upward force on the brick. Two equal and opposite forces, no motion.

    If there was no force to "neutralize" the attraction between the magnet and core, then they would move towards each other until they collide and the physical contact provides the opposing force to stop motion. But that doesn't happen because there is a counter force preventing that and maintaining the gap between the magnet and core. That opposing force comes from the machine structure, acting like the table under the brick, providing an equal & opposite force holding the magnet and core apart.

    Putting a different magnet(s) elsewhere to "neutralize" or counterbalance the attractive force between the magnet and the core does not cause the attractive force between the magnet and core to disappeare, it simply adds a repulsive force elsewhere which then is opposed by a force on the structure.

    Draw a free body diagram.

    Your magnetic neutralization renders cogging ineffective. That's all, well maybe it adds some rotational loss. It does not reduce or eliminate magnetic drag. The force between the magnet and core is still there. The magnetic flux is still there. When there's rotation, there's changing flux and that is what causes magnetic drag.

    You can dream up your own explanation and theories. But it doesn't affect the power production of the generator. That is what needs to be addressed. Do whatever you want with schemes, just prove there is more real power produced than input.

    You call it semantics because you don't understand principles.
    bi ​​​​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • Quantum_well
    replied
    Eddy currents are responsible for braking effect. I think that is why electric machines have laminated cores which help to avoid the current flow. What would you say bistander?

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    You always want to argue semantics instead of principles. Because you are wrong. The attraction of the rotor magnet to the iron core has NO FORCE in any direction that "neutralizes it" UNLESS the opposition magnets are used. This is what I have said all along. As the rotor magnet moves past the coil core (Magnetic drag) there comes an instant in time when the two are perfectly aligned. There is NO force that offsets this moment in time. The attraction DURING THIS MOMENT is what you MUST compensate for. The attraction of the magnet to the coil core as it approaches is cancelled out by the attraction of the magnet to the coil core as it is moving away. But that instant in time exists. That attraction exists. and there is NO FORCE that neutralizes that attraction unless the opposition magnets are applied. The more coils you add and the more magnets on the rotor the more that instant of time is multiplied into thousands of times per minute. This is a force that causes significant amp draw in the motor. These are the FACTS. It is what I have stated FROM THE BEGINNING. A simple experiment proves I am ABSOLUTELY CORRECT and you KNOW IT. So you are WRONG. Always HAVE been wrong. Always WILL be wrong. This instant does not occur thousands of times per second without MOVEMENT which is the magnetic drag. There is NO "magnetic lock" because of the motion of the rotor, but that instant in time of PERFECT ALIGNMENT still occurs despite the fact that there is constant movement, so it IS magnetic drag, as I have said. And you are, how shall I put this, WRONG!

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X