Tesla's rays powering Stan Meyers fuel cell?

[Ernst]

Someone who bought and read my book on Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter showed me this image depicting a diagram from Stanley Meyer.

The interesting bit is marked with a red circle; a slowly rising, then sharply dropping voltage.
If this is the key to obtaining energy from primary cosmic rays (as I described) then this may very well be something that Stanley rediscovered and tried to explain in an entirely different manner.

It is also the same thing that gives a QCW its extremely long discharges.

It is the same thing found in different places creating astonishing results.

Can anyone add something to this list that works on the same kind of electrical input: a slow rise followed by a sharp drop of voltage (either AC or DC).

Is someone interested in exploring this?


Ernst.

[Aaron]

Stan Meyer's circuit

The "step charging" effect is used in Bedini's comparator cap dump, but not sure if you want to keep that in the same category but the WFC is a capacitor.

In any case, Meyer was not making large, magical amounts of electrolyzed water gas, it was the change in the quality of the gas that was of important. He was creating synthetic gas on demand. Ionizing nitrogen and then getting H from the water to bond to it's strong +3 charge created ammonia on demand. That was recycled from the exhaust to the intake building up and condensing the supply.

I show that in Meyer's own words and diagrams where he spelled out clearly the key to his fuel method was nitrogen. The Meyer "experts" deny the facts. Later on, Meyer hid this fact by simply referring to "non-combustible" gases. You can see the original references that debunks all their claims that Meyer never did anything significant with Nitrogen in his process. Stan Meyer's REAL Original Water Fuel Method - A & P Electronic Media

Everyone who was around the buggy said the exhaust that was vented smelled like ammonia and Meyer even admitted it to Mike N. in the UK in early 90's when he was there for a conference.

Anyway, not to take away from the point you're making, but too many Meyer fans are stuck in the resonant frequency nonsense with the VIC circuit. All it does is make electrolyzed, commonly ducted water gas more efficiently than conventional brute force steady DC. Violating Faraday's Law of Electrolysis is simple but the amount of times over someone has to be in order to produce enough gas to run an engine is many orders of magnitude above what anyone is demonstrating - that ought to give a clue to them that there is something else - which I describe above. Not volume, but quality changes in the fuel.

[Ernst]

Thanks for your response, Aaron.
If what you are saying is true, then there is no link with Tesla's work.
I have briefly dug into Stanley's work and found many contradicting statements even in his own words.
Most i-net sources say that it produced much more (I have seen a factor 1000 mentioned) H2 and O2 then one would expect from the current and that later reproductions by others produce what they call Brown gas.
There was a British association for advanced energy (or something along those lines, can't find it right now) that confirmed the unusual amount of gas produced.
I don't want to enter into discussions on this point because my knowledge is only from one day i-net browsing and from what I found, which includes many of Stan's own words and drawings, I'm led to believe that he accidentally stumbled on something which he then tried to improve upon without really understanding what was going on.

So, in short, from what I read (and hear) it did concern the amount and if so, then I can see a link with Tesla's work. If it was not the amount but the quality of the gas, then there is no link.


Ernst.

[Aaron]

Stan Meyer & Tesla?

Thanks for your response, Aaron.
If what you are saying is true, then there is no link with Tesla's work.
I have briefly dug into Stanley's work and found many contradicting statements even in his own words.
Most i-net sources say that it produced much more (I have seen a factor 1000 mentioned) H2 and O2 then one would expect from the current and that later reproductions by others produce what they call Brown gas.
There was a British association for advanced energy (or something along those lines, can't find it right now) that confirmed the unusual amount of gas produced.
I don't want to enter into discussions on this point because my knowledge is only from one day i-net browsing and from what I found, which includes many of Stan's own words and drawings, I'm led to believe that he accidentally stumbled on something which he then tried to improve upon without really understanding what was going on.

So, in short, from what I read (and hear) it did concern the amount and if so, then I can see a link with Tesla's work. If it was not the amount but the quality of the gas, then there is no link.


Ernst.

There are ionization elements to Meyer's design using high voltage - those came way after he appeared to be ionizing nitrogen with a catalyst. Taking water gas and oxygen and stripping the oxygen of electrons to make it so positively charged that it is unstable so that when the mixture is ignited, the hydrogen can't bind to the oxygen and reform into water. The whole point was to get the thermal energy out of the water gas so it burns like gasoline and doesn't just detonate and shrink in volume like detonating water gas.

Right in the beginning of his tech manual, he discusses separating water with with voltage instead of current - so the dielectric separation of water or electrostatically pulling it apart vs. electrolysis with current. That applies to the circuit you show, which is supposed to build up the voltage in the WFC until dielectric breakdown where suddenly a lot of hydrogen is supposed to be released and is supposed to be more than is conventionally thought to be possible. However, all I've seen pursuing that route by the "experts" are a 100% failure rate in producing anything other than the expected amount of gas from pulsed electrolyzer circuits and some are more sophisticated like PLLs, which only make that job a bit more efficient, but nothing out of the ordinary. Meyer did use PLL at one time.



In principle, I see where the step charging is supposed to build up the polarization to a point where there is a breakdown and suddenly a massive amount of gas is released, but just have never seen it happen.

If that is related to Tesla, you would know better than I. Does it seem related to you?

Russell Bourke created the world's most efficient engine. I know someone who has one that tested to be a bit over 85% efficient. In some of Bourke's older work, which was compiled by his wife Lois, there is enough there to deduce that Meyer must have received some inspiration by studying his work based on quite a few things Meyer says and what he was trying to do. That however is more related to the combustion physics of the elements and not much to do with the electrical side of things.

[Ernst]

Yes, well, how it could relate to Tesla's work is a long story.
You roughly know my view on Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter and his "self acting engine".
I have provided a link to a document describing this a couple of years ago on this forum.
I forgot where and which document.
It can be deduced from there, but I have written it in a different form in that book that I referred to earlier, a more forensic approach, I guess.
Once you understand how the self acting engine was implemented in the TMT, you could see a similar thing happen here with this fuel cell. Possibly....
You, having done much more research on Meyer, say it is most likely something else.
OK, I accept that. But as I am building the necessary equipment anyway, it would be very easy to do a simple test sometime.
I'll let you know if I end up on the list of Meyer replication failures. (or not)


Ernst.

[Aaron]

Self Acting Engine

Looking forward to see what you come up with!



Eric Dollard helped me design a water system that is along these lines - it is a high power unit using a high fidelity RCA AM transmitter transformer from the 1940s - basically a complex waveform generator. It was a miracle getting that transformer and every single vacuum tube that Eric preferred. I have all the parts and will finish it when I get a break from the Multiwave Oscillator manufacturing. My guess is it will be along the lines of what you might have in mind.



I'm sure a variation can be done solid state - not sure if it would be as good but in any case, Eric will always choose to go the old-school route. It will be a museum piece in that respect.



Anyway, here is a blog post I did back then with references to the work that you describe for anyone that wants to take a look: https://emediapress.com/2016/06/22/t...acting-engine/

[Ernst]

Thanks for the reference! That is indeed the one I meant.

I have been working on this (=creating this wave form with sufficient power) too with MOSFET's and although some people on the internet have booked success, I have met failure after failure. I have found that those who have been successful use IGBT's in parallel. See QCW
As I am looking for higher frequencies IGBT's are not an option and so I have switched to vacuum tubes as well. There is a bit of a learning curve but the end result is definitely more robust than with semiconductors.
Of course Tesla did not use these but by using an "extra coil" you can work with just a spark gap and get the same effect. So far I have been partially successful replicating this the Tesla way, that is no over-unity but there definitely is a clear increase in current coming from... somewhere outside of established physics.
Anyway, if you start exploring in this direction, please keep me/us informed.
Perhaps we can share some useful tips. Isn't that the idea behind this forum?
If done correctly I am pretty sure you will find some amazing results


Ernst.

[boguslaw]

You can add TPU to the list imho and many more. Hubbard, Hendershot,Moray.
What you are looking for is POSITIVE FEEDBACK aka explosion with safety mechanism to limit it. That's why it's supressed I think

[Aaron]

Extra current?

Thanks for the reference! That is indeed the one I meant.

I have been working on this (=creating this wave form with sufficient power) too with MOSFET's and although some people on the internet have booked success, I have met failure after failure. I have found that those who have been successful use IGBT's in parallel. See QCW
As I am looking for higher frequencies IGBT's are not an option and so I have switched to vacuum tubes as well. There is a bit of a learning curve but the end result is definitely more robust than with semiconductors.
Of course Tesla did not use these but by using an "extra coil" you can work with just a spark gap and get the same effect. So far I have been partially successful replicating this the Tesla way, that is no over-unity but there definitely is a clear increase in current coming from... somewhere outside of established physics.
Anyway, if you start exploring in this direction, please keep me/us informed.
Perhaps we can share some useful tips. Isn't that the idea behind this forum?
If done correctly I am pretty sure you will find some amazing results


Ernst.

When there is time to complete the complex waveform generator, I'll share what we're doing. I hope to be able to present it at the 2020 ESTC. Eric will be up here before the conference for some testing on a project and maybe we can get a head start on that generator. At least we have all the equipment to make the panel mount chassis required and I already have the Navy racks to put it in. Will have about 3 components rack mounted with the massive 100+ pound RCA transformer on the bottom.



When electrostatically ripping water apart, there is current that is sourced from the water's covalent bonding electrons that move towards the positive and that is current that didn't come from what is applied to the plates.



The same with batteries charged with the inductive spikes - it polarizes the chemistry and internal charging currents are formed in the battery that didn't come from the inductor. There is a little bit of current from the inductor of course, but the charging current is more than can be accounted for from the circuit, which is deduced by discharging the battery according to the manufacturers rated capacity and seeing that it did indeed provide more than can be measured from the inductor.



You might find the Tay Hee Han patent interesting. Korean guy with barium titanate plates building up a voltage potential to about 40kv+ over a small gap and it dissociates distilled water by electrostatically ripping the water apart.



I had a very crude replica of that invention and it failed, but I'm guessing that the step charging waveform would be the most effective for that kind of water capacitor in order to see something unusual. Patent is here: https://patents.google.com/patent/US4427512A/en

All of these are similar in that respect that there are internal currents formed that did not come from the applied electricity and come from the very medium that is being polarized or charge separated in between two "plates." Not sure if that is along the lines of the extra current you're referring to but is what I'm familiar with.

[Ernst]

I see you follow the explanation given by Meyer. That is OK, everyone is free to believe in what you feel comfortable with. So without wanting to attack anyone, his explanation does not make any sense to me. But let's try to avoid endless discussions. You have given it considerable thought, I'm sure, and so have I. We are not going to convince eachother.

So.... my explanation why it could work is very different and does involve extra current, generated from cosmic rays. Now I'm sure this sounds like the least probable explanation to all of you but after exploring Tesla's work for as long as I have and having seen what I have in my own experiments I am quite convinced that generating extra current out of "thin air" is possible. The key to doing so is a sawtooth waveform (slow rise, sharp drop), either on its own (DC as with lightning) or AM modulated on a HF carrier (AC as with the QCW).

If anyone can identify such a current in the TPU or the works of Hubbard, Hendershot and Moray, please show me.

For the reasoning behind that allow me to promote my booklet here again. Your buying it helps me out a bit and I'm sure will provide you with new insights in Tesla's work.


Ernst.

[Aaron]

Extra current

I see you follow the explanation given by Meyer. That is OK, everyone is free to believe in what you feel comfortable with. So without wanting to attack anyone, his explanation does not make any sense to me. But let's try to avoid endless discussions. You have given it considerable thought, I'm sure, and so have I. We are not going to convince eachother.

So.... my explanation why it could work is very different and does involve extra current, generated from cosmic rays. Now I'm sure this sounds like the least probable explanation to all of you but after exploring Tesla's work for as long as I have and having seen what I have in my own experiments I am quite convinced that generating extra current out of "thin air" is possible. The key to doing so is a sawtooth waveform (slow rise, sharp drop), either on its own (DC as with lightning) or AM modulated on a HF carrier (AC as with the QCW).

If anyone can identify such a current in the TPU or the works of Hubbard, Hendershot and Moray, please show me.

For the reasoning behind that allow me to promote my booklet here again. Your buying it helps me out a bit and I'm sure will provide you with new insights in Tesla's work.


Ernst.

I have zero desire to convince anyone of anything. I'm simply shareing where extra current is coming from in the examples I provided. There are about 5 separate currents moving in a lead acid battery when it gets charged and most people are only aware of one.



I also do not follow or agree with Meyer's explanation on many things because as you said yourself, he contradicts himself. The Meyer sycophants can't stand hearing that but fortunately, I am not one of them. In concept, I get what he is saying, but again, there is a 100% failure rate in anyone accomplishing what he was supposed to have accomplished doing it the way he says he did it. I can run my jet engine on almost pure water vapor and I haven't even modified the fuel yet so what I see is that the majority of what Meyer claims is not even necessary. I believe there are plenty of red herrings in his work and some are more obvious than others.



Extra current can show up from outside of the medium being polarized, which is different than the examples I gave before. If there is a sharp enough gradient, it will polarize the aether and that polarized and condensed aether will move into one of the two reference points for a potential difference, will move towards ground and is extra electromotive force or Heaviside flow not provided by the circuit. That in turn generates more current to move in the opposite direction. This is the case with the plasma ignition for example where there is more current than can be accounted for from the capacitor that is discharged so is sourced from outside of the spark gap. It's from the ambient aether and not from comsic rays. This also does not dispute anything you are saying, nor does it try to convince you of anything. This is simply another example of more current showing up than is provided by the input source.



Anyway, looking forward to learning more of what you are talking about and I will buy a couple copies of your books for myself and others. If you can provide a picture and bio, I can share it again in my newsletter if you're interested.



Here is the same stairstep waveform with one of Bedini's energizers, which is like what you see in Meyer's diagram:

[Ernst]

Looks like we are getting somewhere. Tesla, Meyer, Bedini... who will be next?

I think we largely agree on Meyer's work and how he presents it.
It has given you some ideas that have resulted in a working prototype in the form of a jet engine? That is fantastic! Do you have a video I can see?

Your explanation about extra current from polarizing ether isn't even that far from how I would describe it. But in this simple statement there are still a lot of details to be filled in, not the least of which is that you require an energy source. This energy source is the primary cosmic rays as Tesla calls them and which are -together with the ether- outside the scope of modern science. This energy source can be tapped into if certain conditions are met...

It would be really great if you would help promote my book. I will provide a picture and bio in a PM.


Ernst.

[Aaron]

water powered jet engine - almost

Looks like we are getting somewhere. Tesla, Meyer, Bedini... who will be next?

I think we largely agree on Meyer's work and how he presents it.
It has given you some ideas that have resulted in a working prototype in the form of a jet engine? That is fantastic! Do you have a video I can see?

Your explanation about extra current from polarizing ether isn't even that far from how I would describe it. But in this simple statement there are still a lot of details to be filled in, not the least of which is that you require an energy source. This energy source is the primary cosmic rays as Tesla calls them and which are -together with the ether- outside the scope of modern science. This energy source can be tapped into if certain conditions are met...

It would be really great if you would help promote my book. I will provide a picture and bio in a PM.


Ernst.

This is only the plasma ignition, recycled exhaust and I haven't gotten to the modified water fuel yet. I have the RF circuitry but need an antenna array - goal was to heterodyne 100mhz and 600mhz on two antenna arrays so that the recycled water vapor moving between the antennas will loses their bonds with low energy - as you know the frequencies mixing will create other frequencies until a theoretical infinite soup of frequencies is created and the nitrogen molecules, water vapor, etc. will result in a random hand swapping to create some nh3, n2o and other products that are used and then constantly recycled to build up a surplus. That is Michael John Nunnerley's method, not mine - I was just trying to replicate his accomplishments.

It took 8 psi to idle the jet before any of the mods like plasma ignition, etc. and it now runs where the propane gauge is sitting on 0 psi because the gauge's scale is too large - I needed 0.1 to 1.0 psi to see what it actually is drawing for that particular fuel nozzle. Anyway, it's a work in progress but is probably one of the most efficient jet engines ever made. Normally the igniter can be turned off when the flame tube is up to temp but I leave it on of course because the plasma dissociates hydrogen from anything it is bound to when it hits the plasma. If I had the time, I'd put a dozen large scale plasma igniters in the end cap instead of 1 regular one.



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE73bZs-Kl8&t=1s[/VIDEO]


I got the pic/bio - thanks.


I ordered a couple books - one for myself so I can try to understand your perspective better and I sent one to Eric Dollard so I can get his take on it. It's a timely topic anyway as he'll demo a Colorado Springs model at the conference in July.

[soundiceuk]

I think Stan was a genius who reverse engineered the best way to run a four stroke petrol engine.

Tesla got there first with his self acting engine postulated in 1900 in "The Problem of Increasing Human Energy"

He was also tapping water power with his completely misunderstood turbine.

He describes the efforts towards this before his lab burnt....

He patented the turbine in 21 different countries just to be sure.

Most people don't realise the turbine with a diverging nozzle and straight port combines the impulsive and reaction forces to feed each other.

Harnessing the power of water via implosion!

Hey, the Center of Implosion Research is in my city! How very bizarre!


What came out of Stans exhaust?

[Ernst]

Ok, saw the video. Interesting, sure, but as you said this is the plasma ignition part and you're still working on the water fuel part.

I had a brief exchange with Eric in the past about the TMT. Eric was absolutely convinced that it did not generate energy, but then his judgement was based on the wrong diagram.
Many, if not most people today think that a TMT is just a Tesla coil with an "extra coil". I already had some evidence that this was not what Tesla would call a MT, now I have absolute proof, as you will see.
If someone reading this wants to see the actual diagram google "rare notes wardenclyffe" and you will find an article published in the Electric Spacecraft in the 90's, that contains some notes that Leland Anderson shared with them. Those show the correct diagram and you will find variations thereof in the CSN and Long Island Notes.
Anyway, if Eric is preparing for a demo of what he currently believes to be a MT then he may be less open to other views than (his) average. Nevertheless I am as interested in his reaction as in yours.


Ernst.

Send you a PM again.