Motor Generators

[bistander]

How is the force of current in a closed circuit formed? A small analysis on the example of solving the problem. I'm sure many people didn't know this. Without precise knowledge of this point you cannot design even an ordinary generator. You will simply make a lot of mistakes and your result will be imperfect.



https://www.patreon.com/posts/112414335?pr=true

Hi Rakarskiy,

"How is the force of current in a closed circuit formed?"
Obviously the potential difference.


I took time and read your article thoroughly.

In your Wise Eye article EMF, Current, Voltage, Resistance, you say "Ohm's law doesn't say anything about voltage drop, only about voltage or applied voltage." This statement of yours is false. Ohm's Law always applies, including the potential difference across a circuit element, such as "voltage drop."
There are also some other issues with your article on which I'll elaborate.

With your circuit example you say "Provided that the bulbs have a resistance of 15 ohms and the first voltmeter will show 4.5V, which corresponds to the battery voltage, the other two voltmeters will show 2.25V. The current will have a value of 0.15A." That would be 15 ohms for each of the 2 bulbs. So each bulb has a 2.25V drop and 0.15A per Ohm's Law. And now the load resistance for the source (4.5V) is 2R or 30 ohms, so Ohm's Law yields 0.15A, same as the calculation for voltage drop.

You seem to imply an issue here. What is it? Then you abruptly jump to a 220VAC supply and then attempt to insert 0.02 ohm 'r' for a generator resistance. Such a low r value is a correct order of magnitude for a low voltage (4.5 or so) battery but not for a 220V generator, as you run into.

Then you proceed to confuse the (R+r) terminology. This leads to several problems like your "current according to the calculation was 0.425 A, which is (4.545A / 0.425=) 10.6 times less than the required value for the operation of our load (TEN 1 kW)." And "the EMF of the generator phase is equal to 462.7 Volts". Both are erroneous.

Also you miss the fact that the DC voltage resulting from rectified filtered AC is not the same value as the RMS. It is the peak, or 0.707 factor.

Another issue is that you add resistance from two circuits (220VAC vs. ~325VDC) for some calculations, (R + r).

bi

[Rakarskiy]

How is the force of current in a closed circuit formed? A small analysis on the example of solving the problem. I'm sure many people didn't know this. Without precise knowledge of this point you cannot design even an ordinary generator. You will simply make a lot of mistakes and your result will be imperfect.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/112414335?pr=true

[Rakarskiy]

Oh, I don't like to believe blindly, and I check a lot. For example, generation by breaking the magnetic flux (braking) has a greater electromagnetic moment than generation by closing the magnetic flux (acceleration) in the rotor/stator pole pair. The designer theoretically got more (about 200%, and not 1200% declared in the patent application).

For example, a generator without the reaction of engineer Tewari in India, had an efficiency of 238%* recorded on the test bench.

* India Won't Suppress Tewari's Free Energy Generator | Covert Geopolitics .

Robert Holcomb (USA) has a mechanical generator with a motor and claims an efficiency of 400%. (Here, no one is stopping you from checking it yourself, the truth or falsity of these statements).

It is possible to solve the problem of the efficiency of a motor-generator converter only if you have a super-efficient motor or by reducing the electromagnetic moment of the generator itself, without reducing the generated power. That is, if there is a generator with a reduced electromagnetic torque, it can only be solved by compensating for the acceleration and braking of the rotor/stator pole pairs.

There is also pulse energy, which is related to parametric systems.
My screen reading of current, pulse parametric system, flyback principle.
(Battery 12V; yellow color excitation current; blue color reverse generation current; frequency of master oscillator 100 Hz).

Wise Eye OverUnity: Generator of energy on nonlinear inductance (rakatskiy.blogspot.com)
Parametric generation * Generator of energy on nonlinear inductance | Patreon

http://www.energeticforum.com/filedata/fetch?filedataid=25985

I don't intend to convince anyone, persuasion is simply a waste of time.

[bistander]

Yes, there is a patent application, but the efficiency is too high. I know that the designers have solved the problem, but the efficiency does not exceed 200%. The further fate of the project is unknown to me, I was not informed. By the way, at the exhibition in Colorado in 1984 Bedini's installation with Kromri generator showed about 130 %. This is the same principle of acceleration-deceleration of the machine through the system of an explicitly pole machine.

Regarding the 1922 regeneration control, read the patent and do the necessary calculations to fulfil the condition of charging the battery and running the engine for propulsion.

You'll just believe anything.
Truth is motors and generators are the same. Neither have efficiency above 100%.
You keep repeating rumors and falsehoods and never show any proofs.
bi

[Rakarskiy]

Yes, there is a patent application, but the efficiency is too high. I know that the designers have solved the problem, but the efficiency does not exceed 200%. The further fate of the project is unknown to me, I was not informed. By the way, at the exhibition in Colorado in 1984 Bedini's installation with Kromri generator showed about 130 %. This is the same principle of acceleration-deceleration of the machine through the system of an explicitly pole machine.

Regarding the 1922 regeneration control, read the patent and do the necessary calculations to fulfil the condition of charging the battery and running the engine for propulsion.

[bistander]

The first - "the golden rule of generator design" was told to me by a designer of electromechanical machines. We had a correspondence regarding my publication about the generator of Karl Lutmer (Australia 1986)*. He was commissioned to design a similar machine, he was looking for the real patent AU53890/86. By the way, he found it in the patent database of Australia, and sent me the original scan (pdf**), which I posted on my blog for downloading. This golden rule follows from the problems of material consumption and Ohm's law for a circuit with a load. With a high resistance of the winding, it will be necessary to "maximize" the idle EMF, increase the number of turns, which will entail an increase in the electromagnetic moment of the machine and a decrease in its overall efficiency. These are the questions and answers from design engineers, and not from "short-sighted" physics teachers.

As for the design of the electrical circuit of the 1922 electric car, Figuera*** also used a resistive controller in his generator, today all this can be implemented through a semiconductor valve power supply system. The main thing is the operating principle of the electromagnetic system, and control is already engineering creativity. You did not see the main difference in control as a motor and as a generator, this is your mistake, not mine.

* Wise Eye OverUnity: MAGNETIC GENERATOR COP-12 (rakatskiy.blogspot.com)
** https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZB9...ew?usp=sharing
***Wise Eye OverUnity: GENERATORS CLEMENTE FIGUERA 1902-1908 (rakatskiy.blogspot.com)

Hi Rakarskiy,

--1986 AU. Application number: AU53890/86A. Filing date: 1986-02-24. Legal status: Abandoned. Application AU53890/86A events. A timeline of key events for this ...

per Google just today.

So not a real patent as you say that you were in search of and found, but an application long since abandoned. It contains a single claim "This generator will produce considerably more power than that required to drive it." Obviously trash from a crackpot.

You did not see the main difference in control as a motor and as a generator, this is your mistake, not mine.

I made no mistake. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate.
bi

[Rakarskiy]

The first - "the golden rule of generator design" was told to me by a designer of electromechanical machines. We had a correspondence regarding my publication about the generator of Karl Lutmer (Australia 1986)*. He was commissioned to design a similar machine, he was looking for the real patent AU53890/86. By the way, he found it in the patent database of Australia, and sent me the original scan (pdf**), which I posted on my blog for downloading. This golden rule follows from the problems of material consumption and Ohm's law for a circuit with a load. With a high resistance of the winding, it will be necessary to "maximize" the idle EMF, increase the number of turns, which will entail an increase in the electromagnetic moment of the machine and a decrease in its overall efficiency. These are the questions and answers from design engineers, and not from "short-sighted" physics teachers.

As for the design of the electrical circuit of the 1922 electric car, Figuera*** also used a resistive controller in his generator, today all this can be implemented through a semiconductor valve power supply system. The main thing is the operating principle of the electromagnetic system, and control is already engineering creativity. You did not see the main difference in control as a motor and as a generator, this is your mistake, not mine.

* Wise Eye OverUnity: MAGNETIC GENERATOR COP-12 (rakatskiy.blogspot.com)
** https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZB9...ew?usp=sharing
***Wise Eye OverUnity: GENERATORS CLEMENTE FIGUERA 1902-1908 (rakatskiy.blogspot.com)

[bistander]

A good example of regenerative braking on a 1922 electric car.
For example, Patent US1423090 for a 1922 electric vehicle of the United States.

Series resistive speed control, mechanical reverse gear.... We've come a long way. I didn't read patent, but from diagram, it is not a "good example" of regen in modern EVs. Century old technology, still would work, interesting to some, but only good for wall art in my shop. Thanks.
bi

[bistander]

Interesting wording "typical traction engine". Any motor has characteristics, in motor mode and in generator mode. The golden rule of a generator is its winding resistance must tend to zero. Motor winding resistance? Because there are design features in electric car motors that are installed there. I had the pleasure of working in a team for converting cars into electric vehicles, i.e. I have tested everything with my own hands on different types of motors.

Rakarskiy,
You say

The golden rule of a generator is its winding resistance must tend to zero. Motor winding resistance? Because there are design features in electric car motors that are installed there.

Show me the source or derivation of this "golden rule".

You don't just make this stuff up, do you?
bi

[Rakarskiy]

A good example of regenerative braking on a 1922 electric car.
For example, Patent US1423090 for a 1922 electric vehicle of the United States.

[Rakarskiy]

Interesting wording "typical traction engine". Any motor has characteristics, in motor mode and in generator mode. The golden rule of a generator is its winding resistance must tend to zero. Motor winding resistance? Because there are design features in electric car motors that are installed there. I had the pleasure of working in a team for converting cars into electric vehicles, i.e. I have tested everything with my own hands on different types of motors.

[bistander]

A good motor is a bad alternator, and vice versa a good alternator is a bad motor. The EMF generated by reactive consumers interferes with the operation of the generator rather than adding power to it. By the way, the question of the substitutability of the motor and generator for a DC circuit, I have partially considered in my work. I touched a little on the nature of self-induction.

https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/2018/12/1935.html?m=1

A good motor is a bad alternator, and vice versa a good alternator is a bad motor.

This can be true in some cases, but is not an universal fact by any means. Perfect example is the typical traction motor used on modern electric and hybrid vehicles. These motors will have practically equivalent efficiency, within a percent or two, operating as a motor during acceleration and travel and during regenerative braking when functioning as a generator. Look it up, or test it. I have.
bi

[Rakarskiy]

At the risk of getting too involved, which I'd rather not be, Rakarskiy is correct that the effects of mutual induction need to be avoided in closed circuit machines, non-inductive windings are relevant to that, though they can't be used alone since they generate almost no voltage potential if at all.

Dealing with EMF induction, in generators with core, where windings are wound on rods or stacked in a slot, dealt with transformers as well.
The direct Mutual induction between the wires has nothing to do with the transformer EMF formula. The transformer EMF formula is used in generators.
Unfortunately Faraday, studying with his coil, could not see it, he encountered all kinds of inductions and they do not want to understand it being in illusions of electronic version of electricity.

The link has a pdf file of my article about this point in my research.

Invention of the electromagnetic generator | Patreon

[Rakarskiy]

A good motor is a bad alternator, and vice versa a good alternator is a bad motor. The EMF generated by reactive consumers interferes with the operation of the generator rather than adding power to it. By the way, the question of the substitutability of the motor and generator for a DC circuit, I have partially considered in my work. I touched a little on the nature of self-induction.

https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/2018/12/1935.html?m=1

[bistander]

At the risk of getting too involved, which I'd rather not be, Rakarskiy is correct that the effects of mutual induction need to be avoided in closed circuit machines, non-inductive windings are relevant to that, though they can't be used alone since they generate almost no voltage potential if at all.

Hi JR,
Please do involve yourself.
You mean by "effects of mutual induction" armature reaction?
bi