Motor Generators

[BroMikey]

Like what you said about the 6 strand winding. As far as I am concerned you have given all and like you said before others have helped you with getting funding. I know because 3 of us tried to chip in a few hundred bucks and you turned us down for fear of whatever reason.

But you are tired of this project I understand.

Anyway for those not so worn out, I say this about multiple strands in series and BTW Dave has confirmed this as well. Get enough strands together in series and you can get the null point at a lower rpm. This is important for other research. For instance, Say your new coil got you to the null at 1800rpm's why then how might changes be made to put out more amps at a lower voltage doubling the rpm' to 3600rpm's?

I'm not tired of this yet, how about the rest of you guys out there listening? If you think it thru you can lower copper costs and raise the amps delivered back to the battery. See Thane Heins 600amp regenX generator coil that slightly speeds up the rotor and generates 600 amps at a low voltage. With the right coil you can get the voltage and amps you need.

[Turion]

bi,
That’s correct. Three strands of 1,000 feet is all that is necessary. No Tesla style coil required. In every setup I always had “three strands in parallel” in order to have some amps. Those three strands were composed of a number of smaller strands connected in series. The only BENEFIT you get out of the Tesla style coil is that it lowers the RPM required for the coil to achieve the “neutral” reaction.

On my original setup I had a 3 strand coil. It would work and then quit working. It took me forever to figure out that running my MY1016 motor on a 12 volt battery I was right on the edge of the RPM at which I could get the neutral effect, and as soon as battery voltage dropped at all, the RPM would go down below the necessary threshold. I couldn’t hear it, the change was so slight, but you are either turning at 2800 RPM or you are NOT. The permalloy requires a bit higher RPM for the effect than the iron cores did.

Now Thane may be using a combination of single or multiple long strands combined with strands composed of shorter strands connected in series. He may have found some benefit to this I haven’t seen. All I know is what I see on the bench.

i don’t have the data in front of me, but if I remember there was one coil configuration that output just a bit more in power at the required RPM, and I believe it was the six strand coil. But for the difficulty in winding more strands and the time connecting all the parallel strands in series, that benefit wasn’t great enough for us to make that our target coil.

Three strands of #23 AWG each 1,000 feet long. An 11” rotor with 3/4 magnets on it spun at 2840 RPM and you get the neutral Lenz reaction with these permalloy cores


bro,
I am not made of $$$. I have a monthly budget I don’t exceed. That means sometimes I have to wait 30 or 60 days before I can buy something I really need because I don’t have the money for it. That drags this process out. That is the ONLY reason I brought it HERE. My hope was that different people would build AT LEAST a rotor and could help test different coil materials and coil configurations. If a couple people had been able to DO that this would have been done long ago. They could have seen what happens when you add more coils or when you use the magnetic neutralization. Doesn’t matter now. I’m done with all that. Once this is put together I am finished with this machine. As I have said on multiple occasions, it works, but the generation of energy with rotary or moving parts is obsolete.

There are still TONS of things I do NOT know. Do I need 3/4” diameter magnets that are 3/4” thick? Would 1/4” thick produce enough flux to saturate the core and provide the same amount of energy? Will 1” thick 3/4 magnets produce MORE energy? Could the magnets be 1/2” in diameter and 1” thick and produce the same energy? Then you could get more on the rotor and the output would go up. Is it the mass of the magnet that determines the flux accepted by the core or is it the diameter of the magnet that causes it to accept more flux? And am I providing as much flux as this core can accept, too little, or overkill. I may never have all these answers, but they are all important questions.

[BroMikey]

So Turion,
Do I understand correctly? You say that you are not using bifilar coils on your lastest generator? That your are using a conventional winding of three strands in parallel?
bi

Yes, how many times does he have to say it? And what is your motive for focusing on these designs? It is a trifilar coil and not a bifilar coil of 1000ft each strand and yes it qualifies as a tesla coil. what was your question? I guess you never heard of branch currents?
What a joke of a friend you are. Dave is your friend right?

[bistander]

When it came time to settle on a coil configuration for this machine we had several different core materials and wire configurations we wanted to compare.
Iron rods
Shotgun shot
some material my buddy in Florida found
Metglass
Nanocrystaline
Permalloy
Ferrite

That is seven different materials. For each one of these materials we wound two coils with 24 strands of 125 feet. Two coils with 12 strands of 250 feet. Two coils with 6 strands of 500 feet and two coils with 3 strands of 1,000 feet. In case you’re counting, that took 28 spools of wire to wind 7 materials x 4 configurations x 2 coils divided by 2 coils per spool is 28 spools at $104.00 per spool just to test core materials.

We posted ALL those results here over the course of a few months of testing. We saw NO BENEFIT to the Tesla style coil as long as we ran at the CORRECT frequency for the coil. For the 3 strand coil it is 2800 RPM, which was my ORIGINAL coil configuration. That is what we will be using.

So Turion,
Do I understand correctly? You say that you are not using bifilar coils on your lastest generator? That your are using a conventional winding of three strands in parallel?
bi

[BroMikey]

Iron rods
Shotgun shot
some material my buddy in Florida found
Metglass
Nanocrystaline
Permalloy
Ferrite

28 spools at $104.00 per spool just to test core materials.
the 3 strand coil it is 2800 RPM, ........is what we will be using.

Dang dude you are a lifesaver, all that money down the drain and your big heart just gives away all of the research answers free. You are a sweet man, it is no wonder you rage when the foolish come around looking the gift horse in the mouth.Chief man/ servant to all. Nobody does that, I mean nobody.

I got to thinking how the comparison between your coil design and Thanes come out. Thane does the same thing by using 3 strands but his are so short and can run 5 amps all day long he puts the 3 short strands in series.

Thane runs 3600-3800rpm vs 2800 rpm or 1000 rpm faster. This is approx. 30% faster. Thanes coil voltage target is 75vdc under load plus 5% and your original cores and coils put out 120vac which is 150vdc. This means Thanes target voltage for the e-bike is 50% less than Daves generator box.

Why do I bring that out? Simple, because their is a correlation between speed, length of wire for a specific target voltage. I am trying to make the connection.

[Turion]

When it came time to settle on a coil configuration for this machine we had several different core materials and wire configurations we wanted to compare.
Iron rods
Shotgun shot
some material my buddy in Florida found
Metglass
Nanocrystaline
Permalloy
Ferrite

That is seven different materials. For each one of these materials we wound two coils with 24 strands of 125 feet. Two coils with 12 strands of 250 feet. Two coils with 6 strands of 500 feet and two coils with 3 strands of 1,000 feet. In case you’re counting, that took 28 spools of wire to wind 7 materials x 4 configurations x 2 coils divided by 2 coils per spool is 28 spools at $104.00 per spool just to test core materials.

We posted ALL those results here over the course of a few months of testing. We saw NO BENEFIT to the Tesla style coil as long as we ran at the CORRECT frequency for the coil. For the 3 strand coil it is 2800 RPM, which was my ORIGINAL coil configuration. That is what we will be using.

[BroMikey]

oops I must have been in a hurry when I made that money error. On the 6 strand version Dave puts some of his coils 3000 feet in series and some of it parallel. Tell me if this is right Dave. 1000ffft = 500+500 used in series then he does that 2 more times. Then each 1000ft are put in parallel. This means that each 1000 feet gives 500ma at the said voltage for a total of 1500ma at said voltage.

The coil sets of 2 did put out 200w-450w depending on the cores and the magnets on the rotor. Personally I will make a guess of 400w per coil set this time or this version. Even at 350w per coil set comes to over 2000w. The drive motor is way cheaper than that to run and that is not possible I am told

[bistander]

TEMCo 23 AWG Copper Magnet Wire - 10 lb 6268
One coil is enough for 6 strands at 1,000 feet per strand, or TWO coils. To create 12 coils you need SIX spools at $104.00 with free shipping from Amazon. That's more like $624.00 for just the wire for 12 coils. BELIEVE me, I know. I've gone through several sets of coils where I had to throw the whole SET of coils away because they got too hot with those iron cores. Shorted out. You will have about 1,600 feet of wire left over. ...

For magnets and wire, over $1,000.00


But you know, it doesn't work, so I have built like 17 versions of this just because I like to spend money.

Can you help me understand how you connect your coil as Tesla style bifilar using three 1000' strands?
bi

[Turion]

TEMCo 23 AWG Copper Magnet Wire - 10 lb 6268
One coil is enough for 6 strands at 1,000 feet per strand, or TWO coils. To create 12 coils you need SIX spools at $104.00 with free shipping from Amazon. That's more like $624.00 for just the wire for 12 coils. BELIEVE me, I know. I've gone through several sets of coils where I had to throw the whole SET of coils away because they got too hot with those iron cores. Shorted out. You will have about 1,600 feet of wire left over


12 of these https://www.magnet4less.com/neodymiu...untersunk-hole @ 3.95 = $47.40
24 of these https://www.magnet4less.com/super-st...-x-1-8-in-disc @ $ .86 = $20.64
48 of these https://www.magnet4less.com/super-st...-4-in-cylinder @ $6.45 = 309.60 plus $25 shipping
About $402.00 for magnets

For magnets and wire, over $1,000.00


But you know, it doesn't work, so I have built like 17 versions of this just because I like to spend money.

[BroMikey]

The ultimate obvious discussion

[BroMikey]

it cost $350 for just the wire for 12 coils. An entire box build would be in the thousands, it would be well worth it $500 for magnets?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37069094534...0AAOSwzc1brp-b

[BroMikey]

All I have to say is you got lucky but most of all you did the right thing. Drilling out red hot metal bolts sitting in plastic is a big no no.that hole would have melted sideways. thx 4 sharing all your hard work. The excitement is building

[Turion]

Recessed nuts were required so the belt drive didn't hit nuts sticking out the back of the machine or the bolts they were on either. The adjustment bolts that MUST stick out the back to be usable were a higher priority. Hard to work the belt arrangement out to avoid ALL of them. The nuts were recessed on purpose.

I thought about drilling out the bolt head, which was also inset, but if any PART of it remained, it would have been recessed and impossible to access easily. That would have been a nightmare. The bolt shaft with a chunk of the head still attached wouldn't go down the hole and would have caused me even MORE headache. I would no longer have had a place for the Allen wrench to go into, holding the bolt while I attempted to back the nut out with the socket set. I would have been reduced to trying to drive the bolt out the hole with some kind of punch and hoping the piece of the head that was still attached bent out of the way or broke off. I considered all of this. So drilling the bolt out became plan C. If I couldn't back the nut out far enough to cut the head off because the Allen "hole" stripped out, I would have been forced to drill it. As it was, cutting the head off took about the same time as drilling it would. Time lost was backing the nut off far enough to get the head of the bolt clear enough to cut off. And it still left me with the drilling option if it wasn't successful.

Today's project...

https://youtu.be/fNmIhOOUOfc

Attachments area
Preview YouTube video Coils


Coils

[BroMikey]

A true master mechanic will share the torque chart with the beginners in class. See chart
https://www.fandisc.com/uploads/8/4/...orque_orig.gif
You have a grade 3 bolts and might have been lied to about that. The chart says to stay under 40 psi so anywhere from 25 - 35 psi and often not that high for junk steel.

See chart grade 8 bolts are 100-120 psi. These are specs for a 1/4"-20 bolt. The bolt price for good steel is a few cents more. Cast steel bolt threads are like cast steel pipe threads. Once cross threaded you have a nightmare.

China sells both cheap cast steel bolts and high grade. Like cheap drills and higher grade cobalt drills. If you ever got stuck with those cheesy drills you have your answer of what not to buy.

[BroMikey]

OK. Rather awkward design using recessed nuts like that. My plan B would have been to drill out the tapered heads. The hex hole would give a .281" drill an easy start. Just drill into the bolt diameter and push it out.

bi

Okay Dave here it is "TODAY'S LESSON' Bye has now officially given his expert advice. You should have drilled it out? Why didn't I think of that? yeah Dave you should have drilled it out and next time "no recess" Dave.

Bye, is really turning out to be a great help, don't you think?