Your Basic Coil

[Turion]

My drive motor is a stock razor scooter motor. The rewound pulse motor (Matt's design) is actually more efficient, but the one I wound for this runs rough, and I need to work on it. One of the many things I need to get done. I had a GOOD one running this, but I burnt it up because of the magnetic attraction of the magnets to the coil cores, which is one of the reasons I am trying air cores.

If you start looking at how all these pieces fit together....that rewound pulse motor that is more efficient....the circuit we showed that recovers better than 80% of what is used to run the motor.....a generator like this one that can EASILY be turned by the pulse motor with 12 coils that produce output.....

Once I show the output of the coils vs input (I already KNOW what you will see since I have been working with this thing for over a year) I think people will be interested.

I should have video up by end of day tomorrow or no later than the day after. And then we will see if I can get this thing to speed up under load "for real" or if that is all a figment of my imagination.

Oh, you can get 2" N48 here: cPath_1_11 | products_id_882 | Neodymium Magnets N48 2 in x 1/4 in Disc - Applied Magnets & WindMax Wind Turbines for $8.35 each. The price drops to around $7.00 for 20 or more. am using N52 magnets on my machine, but those are very hard to find.

Dave

[BroMikey]

Nice one Dave

Honest data.

I bought some magnets that were smaller and I think your magnets

might run $50 each? Wow nice rig. Sounds like my old I-Roc-Z

real rock hard machine. Good work. I wish I had a test stand that

good. Your shop is coming together and this setup is exciting.

You could switch coils fast.

One thing that I have been rolling around in the attic is the connection

possibilities to gen coils. I was watching Matt's video of the drive

motor with the 3 winding's on each side after clean up and gaps on

the rotor where no winding is. Is your drive motor wound like that?


Then I thought of the bi-toroid being 90 degrees out of phase

because of the way any two coil might be connected similarly.


Are you connecting coils up like Thane does? Like a set of secondary

coils on a bi-toroidal? Maybe some call this bucking? I am unclear

how you think on the connection possibilities.


Does a scooter drive motor wound this way run lower amps?

Is that the reason for less winding's? Of course out of the three

windings on each side I can't remember if the coils are in series or

parallel. If your setup has been altered is these ways please explain

the significance.


Nice going. I hope you will hook up your coil pairs like Thanes Bitoroid

is to maybe just try it to see what it does.


Thanks 4 sharing and it is normal to have stage fright. Looks like your

meter took a nap right in the middle of your video. 3.67amps right.

[Turion]

Data

OK, I made two videos. You'll just have to put up with the noise of my setup because it is going to be noisy until I get some connectors. I am spending money on other things I need more.

The first shows my generator running with all 12 coils in place. None of them are connected to loads and none of them are shorted out
Coil testing baseline setup - YouTube

Stats are as follows
RPM 1900
Voltage 15.32
Amp draw .67 (I had the clamp on meter on AC by accident, so this is not accurate...you will see that in the video if you look close. Fortunately, I also shot a picture of the front panel meter on the power supply, which showed DC output as 5.85 amps)

Then I tore the sucker apart and ran the motor with the same output from the power supply, and here is what my meter showed, WITH NO COILS NEAR THE ROTOR.
Coil testing baseline setup 2 - YouTube

RPM 1998
Voltage 15.35
Amp draw .62 (Again, a wrong setting on the meter. Sorry about that. I ran the motor a while ago to see what the panel meter on the front of the power supply showed, and it was 3.67 amps with NO COILS near the rotors)

So basically it cost me 2.18 amps or 33.5 watts to run 12 coils or .18 amps per coil. Each coil slowed the motor by 8 RPM.

I am trying to give accurate data here Farmhand, and this shows that there IS a slowing down of the motor in the presence of the coils, which my smaller setup with just a couple coils did not show. This means you were correct and I was WRONG. It won't be the last time.

What remains to be seen is how much will putting a single coil under load speed the motor up? These are different coils than on my small rig, so I have no idea what the answer will be, but that is what I will be testing first thing tomorrow.

I will test one air core coil, and then I will break the machine back down and put in one of the specially treated coils Matt and I have been working on and see how it does. I want to see the output of each and see how each affects the speed of the rotor and the amp draw of the motor.

I'll be looking for a speed up under load of at LEAST 8 RPM per coil. I am trying to give accurate data guys, and I apologize for the screw up with the meter. I KNOW the motor runs on 5 amps. It always has. It pulls more on start up, but it runs on about 5.5 amps with all the coils. Why I didn't catch the error sooner I do not know. No excuse.

Dave

[Matthew Jones]

I have every intention of continuing. In fact with example. Soon!

As far as his Majesty goes, I can't understand why we can't have a little back and forth without getting his feeling hurt and psycho analyzing everything, but that tends to be the persona of the day. "Came in last place and I didn't get a trophy" LOL

See ya soon.
Matt

[gyula]

Hi Matt and Steve (Erfinder),

I would like to ask you both to reconsider the case and to continue correspondence in this thread / topic with each other, because all the readers miss a lot if you stop. Both of you started with the wish of sharing (at least this was my impression) and if you watch this present situation from outside, this is exactly what oil barons would love to find: gifted people engaged in alternative energy search have come to an argument which may put an end to the good exchange of ideas, experiences etc, no need for MIBs, ego solves it instead.

Afterall, both of you wrote that no harm was meant to each other, nothing was meant personal. So why not continue?



Greetings, Gyula

[Mario]

Hi guys,

I just want to share the following thought. See the attached graph showing the performance curves of a conventional generator versus the Kromrey generator.
The peak power of the two is 500W (as per patent test). As you can see with decreasing rpm the kromrey basically stays constant in output to a certain point (D), while the normal generator behaves linearly, meaning its output is proportional to rpm.

On my setup I have a variac driving the motor so that I can vary the speed. I have personally measured that when I reduced the input power to 50%, the kromrey output still was at 93% of full power. So why should we waste almost 50% input if the output stays constant at a much lower speed? It seems that for a given kromrey setup there is a fixed maximum output.

All this just to say that maybe instead of trying so hard to find solutions for the right coils that won't slow down the prime mover we should determine the points A and B (graph) and spend the lowest input power for maximum output power.

This quest has already many unknowns and I don't want to throw in more, but I think it's worth considering.
Btw, with air coils this graph isn't valid, or at least, the output doesn't seem to stay as constant as with iron cores.

Mario

[Matthew Jones]

I think your making a mountain out of molehill, it wasn't meant to be personal but if thats the case then sorry for making any effort to expand the conversation. I really didn't want fracture an ego today.

The fact is you can use any material with any amount of permeability and to say IRON is the one sole material that allows the delayed or advanced Lenz effect to happen is just wrong. Deal with it.

And personally I could care less about you, I worry more the guy who's reading and getting mislead and closed in box, which is exactly what those blanket statement do especially if someone value's your opinion or admires your work.

Go Ahead and point out my errors, I can handle it.

Matt

[erfinder]

Sorry, the blanket statement above and specifically the words "Main component" are WRONG!!!.
Current makes the magnetic field. Voltage only makes the magnetic field fast. The order in which current and voltage show up and do their job is the "Main Component". Everything else is just a material. Iron is just a material.

You have to be careful with blanket statements.

Matt

Experience and more importantly time have revealed to me that in this work no one knows anything, no one can be certain of anything, we have no foundation, and if for a second we think we do, we should take the time to analyze our environment and respect the fact that we are hopelessly and utterly out of our minds, collectively spinning out of control at thousands of miles per hour through space.

It's very unfortunate that like you, many feel the need to correct their fellow researcher when they catch what they feel is a mistake in their logic. Here is what I think, we are not reading from the same page, we are not in the same book, not in the same library. We don't want the same things, being on this platform at the same time implies that we are in some way, unbeknownst to us presently, aligned, and until we really begin listen to one another, we will not find what it is which unites us. I choose my words carefully, always have, and always will, what I said, I meant, had we had that private conversation you would understand fully why the statement was formulated as it was. I set the stage when I put pen to paper, you have no idea where I am going with my statement.

From my perspective, your "corrections" are error ridden as well, however, it's not my place to point them out to you, and all who visit this thread and read our exchange, that's not what these platforms are "supposed" to be used for. I am here to share my ideas, not to be corrected by those who have no immediate interest in what I do, or even comprehend what I am after. Nor am I here to correct others, as I stated before, no one here knows anything so any attempt at correcting anyone for any reason is pointless.

Before I give you the floor, I will say that there is a purpose served by correcting others, when one corrects another, it makes one feel better about one's self, makes one feel like they have saved the person being corrected from the grips of death itself, it also gives one an ego boost, momentarily elevating one to the position of alpha. I have no problem sitting on the bench, see, I am honored to be on the team. I have no problem being a pawn, but understand that without the board, the game cannot be played, I therefore choose to be board. I am almost certain you will disagree with most if not all that I have said, I will lose no sleep over it. Just know, its more profitable for all when we "enable" our fellow researchers to share freely, allow them the opportunity to correct themselves. Our time could be better invested in exchanging ideas, not facts. Libraries are packed with books containing "facts" we don't need to cram down each other's throats, that which all who can read, can find for themselves.

I mean you no disrespect, and hope that you will let this issue go, for its a waste of both of our time.


Regards

[Matthew Jones]

The main component which facilitates the effect (iron, and its relation to the induced current) is missing.

Sorry, the blanket statement above and specifically the words "Main component" are WRONG!!!.
Current makes the magnetic field. Voltage only makes the magnetic field fast. The order in which current and voltage show up and do their job is the "Main Component". Everything else is just a material. Iron is just a material.

You have to be careful with blanket statements.

Matt

[RUE]

I have found that I get over twice the current through a air core coil vs welding rod core.About half the voltage but over twice the current when I remove the iron core. ALso my coils have very little air in the core but mostly copper and I have seen the 0 Lenz effect On some of my no iron coils.Hopefully Matt and Dave will have some more awsome stuff to show us.

[Turion]

:-)

Matt,
This is me keeping my mouth shut!!!!

Dave

Man, that is hard!

[erfinder]

Wrong... I wish I could discuss it more but Iron is just one way.

Matt

It's easy, really easy to say someone is wrong without knowing what it is that motivates them. This exchange would be different if we spoke, you would understand where I am coming from, appreciate what I am saying if you have seen what I have seen......I am sure you are probably as tired as I am of that line.....everyone who thinks they have seen something and it turns out they have seen nothing....I am not one of them...

I have no doubt that you have found a way to get acceleration using air core coils, so have I. The point is Matt, after experiencing it myself using several different methods, I no longer see any value in acceleration under load, with or without iron, you might, and I tip my hat to you for that. I want more than what I hear folks chatter about on these platforms, and in this particular instance, I want more than the ability to speed up when the gen is loaded, in addition to that, I want more than the "law" dictated output.

To each his own.


Regards

[Matthew Jones]

The main component which facilitates the effect (iron, and its relation to the induced current) is missing.
Regards

Wrong... I wish I could discuss it more but Iron is just one way.

Matt

[Mario]

I understand. If you don't mind my asking, why are you looking for acceleration under short or load with an air core coil? I'm sure you have found by now that there is no easy way of going about doing it. The main component which facilitates the effect (iron, and its relation to the induced current) is missing. It is far easier to build an air core generator which has very little effect on the prime mover, in other words little to no drag, not to forget, and this is my opinion, it is more practical to build a reduced drag air core gen than it is to make one which simply accelerates when you load or short it, but to each his own. You have your reasons for wanting air cores to deliver the acceleration effect in addition to "useful" electrical output.


Regards

Steve, I agree. In fact what I'm looking for is a coil (possibly air core) that doesn't affect the prime mover when loaded with a certain load. When that is found and working, when shorted, it probably would accelerate the prime mover, but acceleration ain't the main goal of course

About the "flux resonance" in a coil with core we were talking about in the kromrey thread. I've replaced one of my two coils with a much narrower coil that I can slide back and forth along the iron core. For this I also removed one of the rotors and used only one for starters.
I had the normal and the narrow core on a scope channel each (the bigger one as a reference) to see if there is a phase shift on the smaller one when moved away from the inducing magnet. (Like Naudin shows).
With no load on the smaller coil there is no shift whatsoever. When loaded with a 1 ohm resistor there is a very small shift as I move it towards the centre of the core, but of course the output (amps) falls drastically.
I want to give it a try with another core that's a bit wider but still movable to see what that will show, for now the result is that it helps to have the coil a bit away from the magnet, but at a substantial cost in output power.

Mario

[erfinder]

I understand. If you don't mind my asking, why are you looking for acceleration under short or load with an air core coil? I'm sure you have found by now that there is no easy way of going about doing it. The main component which facilitates the effect (iron, and its relation to the induced current) is missing. It is far easier to build an air core generator which has very little effect on the prime mover, in other words little to no drag, not to forget, and this is my opinion, it is more practical to build a reduced drag air core gen than it is to make one which simply accelerates when you load or short it, but to each his own. You have your reasons for wanting air cores to deliver the acceleration effect in addition to "useful" electrical output.


Regards