Basic Free Energy Device

[Matthew Jones]

Dwane,
I did not respond to your last post because from what I read (and put in "red" here) you have a build in progress that you have high hopes for, but which has not been completed, and your results are not based on accumulated data, but on your belief in what you have constructed. I was hoping you might be farther along and would update us on your progress. Since you haven't showed us what you have built, there is no way to replicate, and we are left wondering how you are doing. I wish you the best and hope it works out like you hope!!!!!



I have about finished the prototype I have been working on. As I said, I did not intend to disclose this until testing was completed, but Bob spoke about it so the cat is kind of out of the bag. I am not sure it will work as constructed, but have NO DOUBT that a working model can be built. I know Bob French has attempted to modify an existing machine he bought from Rick French with this idea, and has seen that MUCH of the magnetic cogging has been eliminated, but not ALL of it as I hope to do. Some of the issue he is having is with the physical setup of the machine and trying to adapt it to this idea rather than building from scratch. Hopefully I will have better luck and will be more successful. We will see.


jettis,
Glad to see you are still playing around with this. There is much to be learned from this, and similar circuits, and it is a shame that this thread is dying due to lack of interest. It doesn't bother me much, because I feel like I have done my duty by disclosing so much of this, and I can go forward on my own knowing that I tried to include folks but they had other priorities. What people fail to understand is that the bigger the motor/generator, the more dramatic the results of using it between the potentials, especially with an efficient boost circuit. Jut take a little bit of power and move it around using it in many different ways, while generating much more power than what you are using to run the motor or motor coils powering the generator portion.

Dave

And stay off that ground...

Matt

[Turion]

Never touch the ground!!!

Words to live by!

It is simply amazing to me the number folks on these threads who quote the laws of physics or thermodynamics to prove that systems like we are discussing here CANNOT possibly work, yet when you actually READ texts on physics or thermodynamics, they discuss EXCEPTIONS to the laws of thermodynamics, that leave the door wide open for MANY of the systems that have been discussed on this forum to function according to accepted laws and/or exceptions to the laws that thermodynamicists understand completely, because they have studied them, but are NOT understood by electrical engineers who have NOT and just quote what they have heard.

Dilip Kondepudi
Ilya Prigogine
Modern Thermodynamics: From Heat Engines to Dissipative Structures

Dave

[jettis]

I could be wrong but it seems most are not genuinely interested in this field and or the search for the truth.

I personally enjoy the fact that electric motors do not convert electricity to mechanical energy, as we were led to believe, what a lie... suppression at its finest once again. I remember being taught the fundementals of energy conversion when I took power engineering, the electrical energy used to supply an electric motor was 100% converted to mechanical energy to turn the shaft of the motor minus the heat losses, electrical and mechanical resistance losses. On the surface these classical statments seem all too accurate until one easily proves them wrong on the bench!

Dave Wing

[Turion]

Example

What kills mis when folks like you post an example of what they are doing and it floats over everyone's head because they are so busy looking for some piece of crap that they can build to power their house that they don't see that a little circuit can achieve wonders, and can be scale up to the point where usable power is achieved. But that's ok. We will get there eventually.

Dave

[citfta]

Another proof of the idea of the 3BGS

There was a thread started here and then it died that showed an LED powered by a simple boost circuit that lit the LED and then charged another battery. The basic idea of the 3BGS on a smaller scale. The thread went a lot further on the OU.com forum. There the skeptics insisted on some serious measurements which was not a bad idea. However the results did not show what the skeptics expected. They kept insisting the LED output power had to be reduced in order to get both the LED lit and the added charge to the second battery. After several days of different kinds of tests and carefully measuring the output of the LED the conclusion was the energy was actually being reused to allow the LED to be lit fully and charge the battery at the same time. Now the skeptics are stuck trying to come up with an explanation. Folks this idea does work and Dave and Matt have spent the last few years working together to improve it and make it available for everyone to use and only a few seem interested. As Dave has said they would rather chase the silly YouTube videos that show a handful of components powering your house.

Carroll

[Matthew Jones]

I could be wrong but it seems most are not genuinely interested in this field and or the search for the truth.

I personally enjoy the fact that electric motors do not convert electricity to mechanical energy, as we were led to believe, what a lie... suppression at its finest once again. I remember being taught the fundamentals of energy conversion when I took power engineering, the electrical energy used to supply an electric motor was 100% converted to mechanical energy to turn the shaft of the motor minus the heat losses, electrical and mechanical resistance losses. On the surface these classical statements seem all too accurate until one easily proves them wrong on the bench!

Dave Wing

Well they are not wrong in there statement. If you run a motor and when your done you throw everything away to ground then what they teach is fundamentally correct. Because the ground doesn't allow that energy to continue to exist in its current state.
But when you want to conserve and run Potential Based circuits well then we find out that the magnetic fields induced in the coils are just a bi-product of current moving. There is still heat, and resistance losses but all of sudden you can find gains too, from all those counter fields, that everyone wants to eliminate, my self included.
Things like in line generation of electricity become possible with either motors turning generators or my favorite dc to dc isolation transformers. This allows for both the ground and the potential to become charge points in both the top and bottom half of the circuit. DC is a looping flow of current. You can always inject a higher potential at any point in that loop. Using those injections as either as a potential point to do work or as a supplemental power point to either increase the existing charge or supplement for loss.

The battery though is still the point of loss none of these systems will run indefinitely. But they can allow you to do a greater amount of work with a much smaller input.
Batteries are also partial to being charged with pulses. The internal impedance of a battery can be lowered significantly through timed discharges like capacitor dumps or inductor dumps. This behavior over time will lower the internal impedance of the battery.
Batteries are a natural negative resistor so the amount current dumped on them will either be stored or will be immediately turned into gas and heat, but never the less they will take as much power as you dump on them. So current limiting of a potential based circuit is pretty crucial. That doesn't mean you are limited in the amount of work you do while that pulsed DC travels through your load. It just means you have be creative about how those pulses flow through the circuit.

I am making an example based on Jettis drawing and results posted above. I am not intending to be derogative in anyway.

Look at motor 1,2,and 3. They are coupled together. Instead of using 3 batteries to create 3 potentials you could just create one big potential. You run power through a regulator into motor 1 and out to a capacitor (Cap 1) From Cap 1 through regulator into motor2 and then to another capacitor (Cap 2). Again out of cap 2 into a regulator into Motor3. From motor 3 the power goes into a regulator and Cap that stores the power for short time and dump it across the charging battery.
So if we look and this close we can say we took 10 joules from the top half of the system. Then in a process that requires winding up we eventually use those 10 joules 3 times to do work and we are left with the work potential being around 30 joules. And at the same time we did not overload the charge battery. It received a pulse that was manageable and our efficiency was kept high.
If we were to have just taken 30 joules in a continuous flow out and dumped that on the charging batteries we might have lost 1/3 of it.

This is usually the point at which people stop looking at these circuits. They are too limited for real work some say. But you are already working between 2 potential when you hook up the initial circuit why stop. Why not just keep creating potentials and incrementally fire up the circuit?
It adds cost in components but you never have to do more work to renew your initial power. You just have supplement for entropy.

I could go on for days, but I won't. Just think big and keep trying.

Matt

[jettis]

Well they are not wrong in there statement. If you run a motor and when your done you throw everything away to ground then what they teach is fundamentally correct. Because the ground doesn't allow that energy to continue to exist in its current state. I know they are not wrong in most of their statements however there is no electrical to mechanical conversion to get shaft energy... There never was... It was hidden from view and sent to ground like you say. We have been purposefully taken advantage of simply because they wanted us to pay for a commodity called electricity and did not want us to recycle it so we could have self powering devices. They wanted us to intentionally kill the dipole as Bedini or Bearden would say. Look at John's Internet pages he suggests... " So therefore the term free electricity only applies to those that have done away with the current or have figured a way to block it from completing it's path through the circuit." The potential based three battery system is such a system that it blocks the current from completing it's path through the circuit. As you all know of course.
But when you want to conserve and run Potential Based circuits well then we find out that the magnetic fields induced in the coils are just a bi-product of current moving. There is still heat, and resistance losses but all of sudden you can find gains too, from all those counter fields, that everyone wants to eliminate, my self included. Counter fields... Which ones are you talking about? CEMF?
Things like in line generation of electricity become possible with either motors turning generators or my favorite dc to dc isolation transformers. This allows for both the ground and the potential to become charge points in both the top and bottom half of the circuit. DC is a looping flow of current. You can always inject a higher potential at any point in that loop. Using those injections as either as a potential point to do work or as a supplemental power point to either increase the existing charge or supplement for loss. Can you draw that particular configuration you speak of? Is it at all similar to what is shown in this link? http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/MUELLER_EXPER...SLA_BEDINI.pdf

The battery though is still the point of loss none of these systems will run indefinitely. But they can allow you to do a greater amount of work with a much smaller input.
Batteries are also partial to being charged with pulses. The internal impedance of a battery can be lowered significantly through timed discharges like capacitor dumps or inductor dumps. This behavior over time will lower the internal impedance of the battery.
Batteries are a natural negative resistor so the amount current dumped on them will either be stored or will be immediately turned into gas and heat, but never the less they will take as much power as you dump on them. So current limiting of a potential based circuit is pretty crucial. That doesn't mean you are limited in the amount of work you do while that pulsed DC travels through your load. It just means you have be creative about how those pulses flow through the circuit.

I am making an example based on Jettis drawing and results posted above. I am not intending to be derogative in anyway.

Look at motor 1,2,and 3. They are coupled together. Instead of using 3 batteries to create 3 potentials you could just create one big potential. You run power through a regulator into motor 1 and out to a capacitor (Cap 1) From Cap 1 through regulator into motor2 and then to another capacitor (Cap 2). Again out of cap 2 into a regulator into Motor3. From motor 3 the power goes into a regulator and Cap that stores the power for short time and dump it across the charging battery. I like this suggestion, I now see why you mentioned there was another way of doing things when I posted the cascading DC motors across those battery banks. Thanks for sharing.
So if we look and this close we can say we took 10 joules from the top half of the system. Then in a process that requires winding up we eventually use those 10 joules 3 times to do work and we are left with the work potential being around 30 joules. And at the same time we did not overload the charge battery. It received a pulse that was manageable and our efficiency was kept high.
If we were to have just taken 30 joules in a continuous flow out and dumped that on the charging batteries we might have lost 1/3 of it. When we look at motors A&B we find huge amounts of torque available for little current draw on the system (5 Amps draw)... How is this so? All current has to go through my amp meter on the 36 volt section yet the actual A&B load current is not registering on the meter. It should be noted that that meter can only handle about 10 Amps continuous before it blows the fuse within the meter itself. So why does the fuse not blow when I try and stall these motors with a paper wads between my fingers? Like I said I can stall those A&B motors when I conventionally hook them up across a normal 12 volt car battery and they are quite capable of drawing over 10 amps each when stalled by hand and will blow the internal 10 amp fuse in the meter. This is the point I wanted to make by posting what I showed in that schematic.

This is usually the point at which people stop looking at these circuits. They are too limited for real work some say. But you are already working between 2 potential when you hook up the initial circuit why stop. Why not just keep creating potentials and incrementally fire up the circuit?
It adds cost in components but you never have to do more work to renew your initial power. You just have supplement for entropy. Regarding your pulse motor design how much torque does it produce when compared to when it is conventionally run? Just asking because I an curious.

I could go on for days, but I won't. Just think big and keep trying.

Matt

Hi Mat and all others,

I wrote my comments and questions in red because I do not know how to make multiple quotes mixed with my comments so I just added them directly to the above quote.

Dave Wing

[Matthew Jones]

Hi Mat and all others,
I wrote my comments and questions in red because I do not know how to make multiple quotes mixed with my comments so I just added them directly to the above quote.
Dave Wing

You have to open 2 windows use the quete in brackets [][/] and cut paste between windows, if you not on a phone or something.

Counter fields... Which ones are you talking about? CEMF?

Ya maybe thats what it is. Maybe its generated energy from the coil collapse. Maybe there is a a natural charge that flows in from the environment when you shut your charge off. Inductors seem to Become springs, you stretch them then let them snap back, in the process you get a small charge coming back at ya. If you look you'll find what I mean. Maybe it shows up in TORQUE??? Ask Heavyside he knew what they were at least mathematically.

Remember when you do this loop all power becomes viable no matter what side of the circuit your on or what polarity shows up. The setup mitigates it back into the system.

So an example that you would see on the scope, is you get a 12 volt rise in current between the hot of the battery(24 volt top, 12 volt bottom, the difference is 12 volt) , but on the ground side what happens? While both grounds are at ZERO. Put your amp meter on the ground leg. Your current will register there as well. So NOW WHAT..

Go back to the hot side you hit the load with 12 volt but you get rise on the scope then you stop the pulse and you get a little dip. Thats a charge of reverse polarity. If the dip is big enough it is now in serial with the CHARGE battery and serial output is on the ground side which is zero. All you need is fluctuation on ZERO to the Negative and you send charge back up to the primaries. You momentarily increase the potential difference in the poles and that causes charging in the battery. Even if the plates do not react in creates a higher potential. Maybe making more torque??? LOL

So the real key is to find these kinds of loads that heavily effect the charge state on the ground side.

This is what David FOUND with a dead battery in his initial 3bgs. The dead battery was reversing the polarity of all the current that ran through the load and sending it back to the primaries, reversed, increasing the potential difference. Between that and the extra charges, the primary batteries and the dead battery created a situation in which no plate charges were being used. It just ran in the DC loop and sustained itself.
Unfortunatly no matter how hard we try we cannot duplicate that battery.

We can though build and use loads that enhance this effect.

The BOOST circuit Does this. It can take the 12 volt difference and raise it to 36 volt. When 36 volt of current hits the charge battery it induces a strong negative charge on the ground leg and help keep the primaries from discharging. Some motors like your A&B might be doing it as well. Boosting the output voltage

One thing in your drawing is Motor 3 is a straight connection that might lower the impedance in your circuit enough to allow for a stronger motor. Thats not fact its just speculation. Don't run anything to ground EVER. LOL

Regarding your pulse motor design how much torque does it produce when compared to when it is conventionally run? Just asking because I an curious.

The motors are not the same but it does produce a fair amount of torque for a little gain in amp draw.
Heres why..
When the coil is charged initially its empty. You get surge current in the coil, then it moves. Now with coils setup like mine is, the voltage rises above the source voltage. Then the coils are reversed and they discharge back to the battery. This shorts all the power in the coil so you a have net zero and you can get surge current again. Now your only limitation to current flowing is the time you are on with the commutator. Usually 24 volt nets a 2 amp draw at about 4200 rpms. But when loaded the current does not go up significantly only enough based on the slowing of the rotation and your on time to the commutator. Although its not anywhere near 100% efficient with the correct driver it could be well over a COP of 1. But I am not going into that until its built.

But if your trying to make it do much more than 100 watts of work it may not. AS it has no current limiter and the slower it goes the more current it uses. I personally haven't pushed it in that direction. I raised the voltage up 120 volt to see the rpms on it. 120 volt 8.5 amp got me 65k rpms and a nice fire afterwards.

But it is built to follow what I have been telling you. Its made to stay off the ground and its made to deliver energy back to you instead of throwing it away to the ground.

I'm not sure I'll much time to make any drawings but I'll see what I can do.

Matt

[Turion]

A new record!

Guys, I am absolutely blown away. Not by the discussion that is going on here, because I have discussed all of this with Matt and some of it with Carroll and others at different times. What blows me away is that there are four people here talking about something they have ALL seen work, and no idiot has interrupted by posting a YouTube video that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. How long can THAT last?!!!

[Matthew Jones]

SSHHH!!! Don't let them here ya.

[citfta]

Ahh Shucks Matt. You beat me to it. That is exactly what I was going to say!

[jettis]

Correction motors A&B's output is direcltly proportional to the voltage of 11 volts as far as I can tell, after experimenting further... So basically those two motors do output the energy relative to the source voltage. So nothing new there...

But the current used by the motors, A&B, does not match and is a lot less than it should be, I assume that motor "1" is being over driven, by motors "2" and "3", since they are coupled together, lessening the total current draw on the whole system.

Motors 1-3 draw 2.17amps , each, under no load
Motors A&B draw .90 amps, each, under no load

The total is 8.31amps across the system under no load, if you add all the amperage a up.

Now with the system running, as drawn in the schematic, all motors,1,2,3,A and B (I removed the bulb) only draw 4.01 amps, across the 36 volt primary and the other batteries, 24v and 12v stay fully charged, at or near 30volts (24v) and 15volts (12v) under load if I apply a slight mechanical load to motor "A".

I will get to the bottom of this but have to go out for a few hours.

Dave Wing

[Turion]

system

jettis,
You said:
"When we look at motors A&B we find huge amounts of torque available for little current draw on the system (5 Amps draw)... How is this so? All current has to go through my amp meter on the 36 volt section yet the actual A&B load current is not registering on the meter. It should be noted that that meter can only handle about 10 Amps continuous before it blows the fuse within the meter itself. So why does the fuse not blow when I try and stall these motors with a paper wads between my fingers? Like I said I can stall those A&B motors when I conventionally hook them up across a normal 12 volt car battery and they are quite capable of drawing over 10 amps each when stalled by hand and will blow the internal 10 amp fuse in the meter. This is the point I wanted to make by posting what I showed in that schematic."

This is what I found AT TIMES with the original 3BGS circuit, and why I feel like this research is so IMPORTANT. When I would put a load on battery 3, the motor would speed up. If I had the RIGHT load and waited about five minute, the motor would speed up a SECOND time and then settle in at that higher speed with NO ADDITIONAL AMP DRAW.

Regarding your schematic, can you show where you are connecting your amp meter? One thing I have noticed about this system and the different configurations I have tried over the years....there are places where you can pull voltage out of the system without it having an effect on the input, and places you can pull AMPS out of the system. The headaches this setup has caused me have kept the folks that manufacture Excedrin Migraine in business for the last ten years.

When you start to look at the issues a motor faces when trying to turn a generator (all those magnets past iron cores of coils to produce the electricity you want) you can understand why I sometimes get so excited about the things I see here and why I cannot for the life of me understand why more people aren't spending time on this. All that available torque for NO AMP DRAW on the motor. Everybody wants someone ELSE to do all the input vs output tests, and those are important, but it is MORE important to get this freaking circuit put together on the bench and start messing with it to see what effects small changes can make, because they make HUGE differences as we have seen.

I haven't shown everything I have seen with this thing, and I KNOW Matt hasn't shown everything he has seen, and I have been putting together everything I need to do the testing. Maybe it's about time I got that done. But then some butt head would just run out and try to patent everything we've worked so hard on. LOL.

3BGS Testing Setup - YouTube

[jettis]

The amp meter is connected as the first thing exiting the 36 volt battery... It is shown on the schematic.

Dave Wing

[Turion]

Thanks

Got it. I saw the writing,but missed the fact that you were indicating a meter connected there.
Dave