Self-induction

[erfinder]

Hello Steve, I think I've watched all your videos, thanks for spending so much time on everything. Did I miss something though? Did you post any circuit diagrams? I'm not sure what a hall triggered 555 PWM circuit is. Are you using the 555 like a One Shot or are you hitting the power coils with a square wave when the trigger is on? I'm guessing.

Hello John,

My intention is not to provide any details because everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.
Regards

[shylo]

100 percent

Hi Erfinder, I agree with your last statement, let us see , what we can do with it.
artv

[DadHav]

Hello John,

My intention is not to provide any details because everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. I do admit that more detail "could" have been provided, however, as it stands, I'm not interested in dissecting the circuit, discussions usually dead end in circuit analysis. From here we get hung up on how measurements were incorrectly made, and calculations based on those measurements end up being wrong. I desire to avoid this by suggesting that the circuit used in the experiments is as basic as they come. Measurements aren't being made because there's noting being claimed other than there is an interesting phenomena manifesting. With that consider me as a novice in electronics who wouldn't know a diode from a hole in the ground, for me to provide you with a schematic would be an insult to your intelligence.

In all fairness the controller consists of a 555 timer set for one shot, triggered by a hall sensor, the output of the timer drives an N-Channel Mosfet, nothing special.



Your first guess is on the money. What you are looking at is a single shaft with two rotors and two sets of coils (two stators). The first stator is the motor, and the second stator is the generator. There is no electrical connection between the two stators.

No diagram has been provided, nor will one be provided, I don't want to get anyone tangled up with me in the birds nest of wires. How things are wired is important but not as important as the question which inspired the adopted wiring method. The question is simple, is the solution to the CEMF versus applied EMF problem in motors being demonstrated in the problem itself? Is the solution mirrored in the problem? I think it is.



The purpose of the generator is to serve as a source of CEMF which is used to neutralize the CEMF induced in the motor. The load which is attached to the output of the transformer is not powered by the generator, it is powered by the supply powering the motor.



This is why you don't show scope shots, nor meters measuring anything, because they are distractions. I cannot in all honesty rule anything out, mechanical vibrations of key components "could" be the reason for the oscillations, this is not my view though.



Guessing is ok John, it's not like I have given you much to go on as you have pointed out. You were not the first, and will not be the last to ask questions like these. The fact that the information is limited should be a testament to the fact that those things are not important to me the disseminator of this information. At this time I am only interested in the conflict between the applied and induced EMF's.

The point of this is for you to tell me what you think about the conflict between EMF and CEMF, its not about the machine that I am working on nor the circuit that's operating it. The only reason why I even show the motor is so that people reading this stuff don't see me as just a guy who is running off at the mouth, this guy also puts time in on the bench.

Back in the old days this forum boomed with talk about CEMF what it is, what its not, and what to do about it, I'm suggesting that we consider what we could do with it.



Regards

Hello Steve, Thanks for the answer. I can understand why you don't care to discuss the circuits. As for me I'm not much on reading and better with building or getting my hands on something to improve or disapprove a concept of some kind. I've sent you my unlisted video of my Parallel Coil Mo / Gen which demonstrates a canceling effect between coils and reduction of current draw when a load is placed on the generator side. This seems to me like what you are doing somehow with the two sets of coils. As you notice in the clip I sent there is no gain in RPM but there is no loss either. At this time it might be the only thing I have to offer. I have to admit I don't know how to explain what's going on. That's why I never posted it except on a few forums including UFO's. You have some really capable help here when it comes to digging into the emf/cemf issue. I'll just drop back and see how things unfold for you. God gave two ears, two eyes and one mouth for a reason. Not following that has gotten me into plenty of trouble in the past. LOL. By the way I forgot to mention your build is really nice.
John

[erfinder]

Hello Steve, Thanks for the answer. I can understand why you don't care to discuss the circuits. As for me I'm not much on reading and better with building or getting my hands on something to improve or disapprove a concept of some kind. I've sent you my unlisted video of my Parallel Coil Mo / Gen which demonstrates a canceling effect between coils and reduction of current draw when a load is placed on the generator side. This seems to me like what you are doing somehow with the two sets of coils. As you notice in the clip I sent there is no gain in RPM but there is no loss either. At this time it might be the only thing I have to offer. I have to admit I don't know how to explain what's going on. That's why I never posted it except on a few forums including UFO's. You have some really capable help here when it comes to digging into the emf/cemf issue. I'll just drop back and see how things unfold for you. God gave two ears, two eyes and one mouth for a reason. Not following that has gotten me into plenty of trouble in the past. LOL. By the way I forgot to mention your build is really nice.
John

Hi John,

Could you please provide me with the link to the video again, I can't find it in my favorites. I'd like to review it again before I can comment as to whether we are on the same page or not.


Regards

[BroMikey]

Your Experiments on Youtube

Hey John Mike here

Been seeing your stuff on youtube and wanted to say thanks for the way you used the conventional motors to get spikes and more.


the scope shots are great and you have long video's sometimes. That is good. Some 1 minute video's are just to short to see what is going on but you have nice long videos and you seem very comfortable on camera.

Great work. I just wanted you to know I am there watching over the years but never said anything.

In the beginning as I searched for self running stuff I found yours. I still am never sure who has a self runner or if the unit is self oscillating.

Most people think self oscillating means self running at first glance.

When you charge batteries with batteries experimenter often get 100 percent back of what was put in by the first battery.

I know you are a heavy on circuit analysis and for those who are use to conventional wave forms this one is quite intriguing.
.

Michael Rowland (central kansas)

Hello Steve, Thanks for the answer. I can understand why you don't care to discuss the circuits. As for me I'm not much on reading and better with building or getting my hands on something to improve or disapprove a concept of some kind. I've sent you my unlisted video of my Parallel Coil Mo / Gen which demonstrates a canceling effect between coils and reduction of current draw when a load is placed on the generator side. This seems to me like what you are doing somehow with the two sets of coils. As you notice in the clip I sent there is no gain in RPM but there is no loss either. At this time it might be the only thing I have to offer. I have to admit I don't know how to explain what's going on. That's why I never posted it except on a few forums including UFO's. You have some really capable help here when it comes to digging into the emf/cemf issue. I'll just drop back and see how things unfold for you. God gave two ears, two eyes and one mouth for a reason. Not following that has gotten me into plenty of trouble in the past. LOL. By the way I forgot to mention your build is really nice.
John

[DadHav]

Free Energy From Genereator Coil Video

Hi John,

Could you please provide me with the link to the video again, I can't find it in my favorites. I'd like to review it again before I can comment as to whether we are on the same page or not.


Regards

Hello Steve, I'd be glad to give you and our friends here the link. Let me give you a little history of the clip though because it is short and was only made to give my friend Les Kraut an update to and experiment with parallel coils. Les understood it but others just seeing it probably would have no clue. There is nothing unusual about the setup at all except it works for some reason. This is a 12 pole stator motor that is wound with one trigger wire and two power coils. I had originally wound two triggers as well so as to use the motor with a full wave circuit, but I lost one trigger due to a broken wire. So I tried another experiment. The circuit would be almost exactly like an SSG with an isolated generator coil. This is not a true statement however because they are both on the same stator. This means there is some coupling between the two coils or maybe even all three. I'm talking about a transformer effect that allows the high voltage spike from the collapsing of the power or motor coil to show up on the generator coil. This allows a direct feedback to the battery with both a standard generated potential as well as the radiant that couldn't be sent directly back from the collector of the transistor through an output diode. The generator coil naturally is connected across a full wave bridge rectifier. In the video you will see that when I connect the feedback from the generator and bridge back to the battery the current drops almost in half. The motor at that time stays the same RPM or goes up slightly. When I plug a 12 volt bulb on the output the motor does not change speed and the current draw on the battery drops about the same amount as I would expect it to go up from the load of the bulb. Then I install the bulb into the input voltage rail and run the motor and bulb from the battery. After that I run the motor from the battery and the bulb from the generator and there is a big drop in current in that test with the motor staying the same speed. A few other notes: the battery is an alum electrolyte conversion that is 12 volts, and 1.3 aH. The battery was completely useless before the conversion. Also something important Steve: The effect only happened at about the RPM shown on the tachometer. This makes me believe the RPM times the three triggers per rev is giving me a frequency that could possibly be causing the effect in the coils that you are trying to understand. I've posted the video on a few forums but never had a question or comment about it, so I put everything aside and forgot about it. I have to say though I've not seen many videos that show the same effect, at least not anything I thought was legitimate. When I saw your posts I thought there might be something similar going on and that's why I asked about your circuit. I was only interested in how your coils end up parallel, if they are, and in a position where they can counter-react on one another. I didn't want to post a video and explanation unless there was something associated with what you're doing here. Well anyway if not just enjoy the video and then forget about it after. Let me know if you have any questions. Just thought of something. I wonder if you are having something going on in the transformers that you aren’t expecting. I also have a video where I run a window motor and when I hit the feedback switch the power supply voltage reading goes from 20 volts to 40 and the motor speeds up. It looks a lot like your video. This effect seems to be associated with the filter capacitors in the power supply.
Free Energy From Generator Coil - YouTube
Enjoy
John

[DadHav]

Who knows?

Hey John Mike here

Been seeing your stuff on youtube and wanted to say thanks for the way you used the conventional motors to get spikes and more.


the scope shots are great and you have long video's sometimes. That is good. Some 1 minute video's are just to short to see what is going on but you have nice long videos and you seem very comfortable on camera.

Great work. I just wanted you to know I am there watching over the years but never said anything.

In the beginning as I searched for self running stuff I found yours. I still am never sure who has a self runner or if the unit is self oscillating.

Most people think self oscillating means self running at first glance.

When you charge batteries with batteries experimenter often get 100 percent back of what was put in by the first battery.

I know you are a heavy on circuit analysis and for those who are use to conventional wave forms this one is quite intriguing.
.

Michael Rowland (central kansas)

Hello Mike, thanks for the nice comments and watching my channel. I appreciate it. I know how you feel about the self runner and you really can get me going easily on that one. There's so much fraud on the YouTube videos that I don't know if you could get someone to believe you have over unity even if you do and are doing your best to prove it. On the other hand you will find more people who think you have over unity when you don't, even though you have captions all over your video that says there is no over unity or free energy illustrated here. You wouldn't believe how many people think they have over unity because they can measure a voltage somewhere in a circuit that is higher than the input voltage. Anyway you are right, it's hard to tell sometimes what's going on. That's why I think you have to stick to your guns and keep asking people to prove it. Mike I have to remember this is Steve's thread and need to keep focus on what he needs.
Thanks again from Akron Ohio.
John

[DadHav]

Connecting window motor circuits

Hello Steve, Earlier you asked or anyone has ever used more than one sequential bipolar switch together of something like that. I know your busy but if you're interested I have used one motor running on a full wave circuit to run a second motor using a half wave circuit. What might be interesting is that the first motor has the generator coil connected in series with the power coil. This is similar to the connection used in some cases on the UFO motors, I believe. In this case the voltage also nearly doubles before the second circuit is energized from the output of the first. Consequently it looks like the the voltage eventually is almost double the input while it is running the second motor and an LED also. Unfortunately it isn't over unity because the current draw at input goes up when the second motor and circuit is connected. Any way if you're interested I have the circuit drawing if you want it and the video is here:
Window Motor Runs Window Motor. - YouTube
I also have something to watch with regard to who ever was asking about disconnecting the battery before hitting it with return spikes, but I won't post anything that might clutter things up more than I am already unless you invite me to. Is there any way to check spelling here?
Cheers
John

[erfinder]

Hello Steve, Earlier you asked or anyone has ever used more than one sequential bipolar switch together of something like that. I know your busy but if you're interested I have used one motor running on a full wave circuit to run a second motor using a half wave circuit. What might be interesting is that the first motor has the generator coil connected in series with the power coil. This is similar to the connection used in some cases on the UFO motors, I believe. In this case the voltage also nearly doubles before the second circuit is energized from the output of the first. Consequently it looks like the the voltage eventually is almost double the input while it is running the second motor and an LED also. Unfortunately it isn't over unity because the current draw at input goes up when the second motor and circuit is connected. Any way if you're interested I have the circuit drawing if you want it and the video is here:
Window Motor Runs Window Motor. - YouTube
I also have something to watch with regard to who ever was asking about disconnecting the battery before hitting it with return spikes, but I won't post anything that might clutter things up more than I am already unless you invite me to. Is there any way to check spelling here?
Cheers
John

Hi John,

Post what you think applies to what I've posted so far. Just give me the benefit of the doubt please. I am making no claims, and the questions I have raised are very important to me, important enough for me to crawl out from under my rock and share them with all who care to read through my rant.

What others may think of the idea is immaterial, but it must be stated here and now so that its clear, I view my system, from the perspective of the CEMF. I cannot make that message any clearer than that.



Regards

[tachyoncatcher]

Is there any way to check spelling here?
Cheers
John

Hi John,
Use Firefox for your browser. It will check your spelling as you type and underline your misspellings with a squiggle underline. Right click the underlined words and it will offer suggestions.
Steve: Great exercise. Very interesting thread. Good job at sharing with a purpose.
Best Regards,
Randy

[DadHav]

Hi John,

Post what you think applies to what I've posted so far. Just give me the benefit of the doubt please. I am making no claims, and the questions I have raised are very important to me, important enough for me to crawl out from under my rock and share them with all who care to read through my rant.

What others may think of the idea is immaterial, but it must be stated here and now so that its clear, I view my system, from the perspective of the CEMF. I cannot make that message any clearer than that.

At the instant of switch closure a current attempts to flow, however, the self induction opposes this action by building up a voltage which at the initial instance exactly equals the supply voltage. Everyone knows this, its textbook. It works, the math works, unfortunately however, we have a problem here, one which is always overlooked. How was this potential induced if no lines cut the inductor?..... Somethings out of place...

I am not making any claims, some of the things I have said you could verify yourself, but that's not the point, I don't want nor need anyone to copy and paste anything that I share here. For some reason when you start sharing your thoughts and feelings, people seem to want to try it out for themselves. That's not why I'm here. I am not interested in a debate which usually always comes out of a replication effort. I have nothing to prove.

I would really like to move on with this subject and talk about a few weird things maybe show a video or two but as it stands, I'm not really sure its even worth the extra effort, I guess time will tell.

Feeding a second system using the recovered energy from another circuit is one of those things I tried with varying degrees of success when I first started playing with the SSG circuit. I learned what I could from the circuit then moved on and now do the exact same thing with IGBT based circuits. Like you I note an increase in consumption when the second circuit is engaged, and in the beginning when I first encountered this while looking for that which isn't there, I thought this a bad thing. It wasn't until I got a little more comfortable with the machines that I realized that what was happening was impedance matching, by properly adjusting the load, one is enabled to manipulate the current limiting mechanism of the main circuit. I want the current to go up when I apply the load, for its my signal that the CEMF is decreasing.

Fast forward a few years and you find me here sharing the new and improved method I have found for manipulating the same current limiting mechanism. You have seen the video of the MoGen. It doesn't take much imagination to see that the generator could be completely eliminated, replaced with a motor which receives its driving currents from the recovery of the first motor. The result would be exactly the same, with a few differences, to name a few:

• the lamps (replace lamps with batteries and charge the hell out of them with cap dumps. CatVomit ) on the output of the transformer is still considered as load, powered by a combination of generator action, transformer action, and is pulsed being part of the second motor drive circuit.
• owing to the generator now functioning as a motor, torque is a primary force instead of a secondary force.
• the collapsing field from the second motor is harvested and can be used to drive an additional stage or resistive load.
• This being a kind of cascade, each additional stage results in an increase in output potential.

I don't think we need to disconnect the supply battery to charge it. I don't recommend hitting the primary with spikes in voltage, I highly recommend hitting it with spikes in current, these spikes have to come from somewhere, and that somewhere in my opinion is the rotor field. That's something else I want to talk about, but am finding it difficult to start in that direction as yet.


Regards

OK Steve, I watched your video once again and I think I get it. It just keeps getting harder for me to wrap my head around things anymore. When you add the bulb as a load the motor speeds up and draws more current. If it drew more current without speeding up you wouldn't have anything to start a thread about right? The important thing is that something happens in your motor or components that takes the inductive limits off the motor and thus allows the motor to draw more current and speed up without you increasing the voltage on the power supply. So would that mean your motor converts to one that has more horsepower for the applied voltage? I know that's not what you're talking about but it could be significant somewhere down the line. So everyone probably agrees that you have illustrated something special and you have an interesting test result. I think what you're asking here is if anyone has or knows how or why this can happen or if they know how to accomplish such a cancellation themselves right? I'm not sure it's possible to predict how to do this, it might only be possible to explain it after you have accomplished it and can do the bench tests on a working model. That's just my opinion because I don't have the background to research and give an on paper explanation. I hope someone will be able to contribute more than I am. I will add something though. You're device is really cool in one respect because it seems to be a mechanical boost converter as well as what it might be doing electrically. After thinking about it for a while this reminds me of a motor setup I have. My load is the motor itself when I switch the feedback on. The current goes up and the motor speeds up just like yours. On mine the power supply voltage meter also goes up 20 volts over what the power supply should be capable of. I'm wondering if I'm not experiencing something similar. I've been told by a few that the power supply voltage sensors are turning the supply up but I got my hands on a circuit drawing and that looks impossible. It may not pertain but then again maybe it does.
Window Motor Doubles Voltage On PS Readout. - YouTube
I think some of these things can't be duplicated because of how critical impedance is. The effect on the video only works with this power supply but I have run motors on the capacitor in the supply with the supply unplugged so I'm sure the components in the supply have something to do with the boost. I should try using the supply as a load while running the input from a second power supply. OK enough.
Cheers
John

[DadHav]

Hi John,
Use Firefox for your browser. It will check your spelling as you type and underline your misspellings with a squiggle underline. Right click the underlined words and it will offer suggestions.
Steve: Great exercise. Very interesting thread. Good job at sharing with a purpose.
Best Regards,
Randy

Thanks Randy, I just figured out I can sign on with Google and use ispell.
J

[erfinder]

OK Steve, I watched your video once again and I think I get it. It just keeps getting harder for me to wrap my head around things anymore. When you add the bulb as a load the motor speeds up and draws more current.

Hello John,

Correct.

If it drew more current without speeding up you wouldn't have anything to start a thread about right?

Correct.

The important thing is that something happens in your motor or components that takes the inductive limits off the motor and thus allows the motor to draw more current and speed up without you increasing the voltage on the power supply.

Correct.

So would that mean your motor converts to one that has more horsepower for the applied voltage?

If we are to believe what we have been taught regarding torque following current, then yes, the "mechanical" out increases.

I know that's not what you're talking about but it could be significant somewhere down the line.

It's not, however, it's a fair, and justified question.

So everyone probably agrees that you have illustrated something special and you have an interesting test result.

I appreciate that very much.

I think what you're asking here is if anyone has or knows how or why this can happen or if they know how to accomplish such a cancellation themselves right?

Not necessarily, I am not asking if anyone knows how or why this can happen, what I'm saying and asking:

The fight between applied EMF and induced EMF is the issue, is the fight demonstrating "the" solution to the problem of current limiting?

I'm not sure it's possible to predict how to do this, it might only be possible to explain it after you have accomplished it and can do the bench tests on a working model.

I believe it is possible, I believe it begins with asking the right question. After the proper question is formulated we are shocked to discover that the solution is simple, intelligent researchers in the past recognized the simplicity, one in particular shared his findings over 100 years ago.

That's just my opinion because I don't have the background to research and give an on paper explanation. I hope someone will be able to contribute more than I am.

I understand, I'm not asking for help, not asking for anyone to explain anything for me. I have my own dogma, and for the moment, mine is all I need.

I will add something though. You're device is really cool in one respect because it seems to be a mechanical boost converter as well as what it might be doing electrically. After thinking about it for a while this reminds me of a motor setup I have.

I think it's pretty cool too.

My load is the motor itself when I switch the feedback on. The current goes up and the motor speeds up just like yours. On mine the power supply voltage meter also goes up 20 volts over what the power supply should be capable of. I'm wondering if I'm not experiencing something similar. I've been told by a few that the power supply voltage sensors are turning the supply up but I got my hands on a circuit drawing and that looks impossible. It may not pertain but then again maybe it does.
Window Motor Doubles Voltage On PS Readout. - YouTube

I believe the motors speed up for different reasons. The increase in potential that you note in the power supply was one of the first things I ran into, but unlike in your demonstration, what came back from my system was so high in both potential and current that it destroyed my power supply. That happened twice before I got wise and added diodes and a large capacitor between my circuit and the power supply. Unlike your machine, this phenomena only took place when I "stopped" my circuit from switching. You will be hard pressed to make comparisons between my setup and yours, my coils are configured in a specific manner and connected together in a specific way. This enables me to get the back charging effect. This back charging effect is a combination of generator action that you see in your machine and something else that I am not qualified to elaborate on in detail. I can get this effect with any supply that I drive the motor with, and can completely disconnect the supply, eliminating the idea that this effect is associated with the power supply.

I think some of these things can't be duplicated because of how critical impedance is. The effect on the video only works with this power supply but I have run motors on the capacitor in the supply with the supply unplugged so I'm sure the components in the supply have something to do with the boost. I should try using the supply as a load while running the input from a second power supply. OK enough.
Cheers
John

Impedance is a funny word. It's a word which equates to resistance, this resistance is measured in ohms, however, at the same time it can be related to an induced potential. On that note we are back to my question.


Regards

[µHenry]

Hello Erfinder,
great thread. Congratulations! I find your ideas very refreshing and inpirational. Most of what goes on here I can't compute. Learning...You guys are old hands at this. I'll keep out of the way, but still wanted to show my respects, because reading through these threads here (yes, I discovered this by means of tuks.nl PJKelly>>UFO etc) I was moved by your wise open/honest views. You shine so bright these days I gotta wear shades. Keep up the good work!
Regards. µH

[erfinder]

Hello Erfinder,
great thread. Congratulations! I find your ideas very refreshing and inpirational. Most of what goes on here I can't compute. Learning...You guys are old hands at this. I'll keep out of the way, but still wanted to show my respects, because reading through these threads here (yes, I discovered this by means of tuks.nl PJKelly>>UFO etc) I was moved by your wise open/honest views. You shine so bright these days I gotta wear shades. Keep up the good work!
Regards. µH

Hello µH,

I'm humbled by the idea of you finding this information "inspirational". Just keep in mind that this is simply one persons view, nothing more nothing less. Feel free to post what you feel fits, not an easy task owing to my not putting very much detail in my descriptions, but it's worth the effort. Like you I too am learning, I am not an old hand at this. I ask what I consider tough questions of myself, and not my peers nor mainstream science. My view is mine, and I don't expect nor desire that anyone accept it, I desire for folks participating to come to their own conclusions, hoping that in the end, we come to see the same thing, in our minds, and on our bench where the idea is made manifest. I am honored that you are here, and look forward to experiencing you through your connection with the material that you bring to the discussion.

The light you see in me is your own being reflected back at you, I am a mirror. Remove your shades and bask in the light of yourself.


Regards