Just magnetic fields

[Loadstone]

From an unpublished article called Man's Greatest Achievement Tesla said:
"There manifests itself in the fully developed being, Man, a desire mysterious, inscrutable and irresistible: to imitate nature, to create, to work himself the wonders he perceives.... Long ago he recognized that all perceptible matter comes from a primary substance, or tenuity beyond conception, filling all space, the Akasha or luminiferous ether, that is acted upon by the life giving Prana or creative force, calling into existence, in never ending cycles all things and phenomena. The primary substance, thrown into infinitesimal whirls of prodigious velocity, becomes gross matter; the force subsiding, the motion ceases and matter disappears, reverting to the primary substance."

It comes to no surprise that another researcher had similar vision and his name is Ed Leedskalnin. Mysterious character, we again may not know the whole picture of his life and his thoughts, but from his writings we can find similarities. The book I refer to is “Magnetic current”.

Although I think almost have already guessed where I'm going with this, I present anyway one famous drawing from this book:

Figure 19.



Because this is related to magnetic lines in a conductor, I will ask for your patience and compare it with already known Figure 12. Leedskalnin's black dot and white dot are the same black and white “horse shoes” bordering the orange ovals. I remind you about the imperfection in Figure 12 where the twist is not present.

For those familiar with Leedskalnin's books I will point out to the same cosmogony he shared with Tesla. And these two were not unique regarding this concepts.

I will stop again for reminding the static character of magnetic lines and reminding you that the ilusion of motion comes from the observer's perspective. Some will see the black “horse shoes” leading the swirl, some will see the white ones.

Just thought I'd let you guy's know that the drawing shown in Barbosi's post are NOT from Ed Leedskalnin's booklet Magnetic Current. Ed's original booklet contains no drawings. The drawing that Barbosi referred to was done by a guy named Maximilliano.
Nice thread btw....

[ritman2]

Please be aware that in the second post I added a new picture (Figure 3a) representing a side view of a bar magnet.

Was 3a against the same crt? I am curious about the different colors that resulted.

Also THANKS for the extremely interesting OP! I am interested in understanding magnetism in a lowest common denominator way that I could explain it to my child in under a minute, not spend the 2 years I have been pursuing this understanding and if anything I am left with less than I started with. You have given me a cool drink in my thirst for knowledge.

[ritman2]

Also, old HoJo would have liked fig 3a.

Howard would have been mad if crt's were available then cause I am sure his magnetic field plotter took a LONG time to construct and this seems to do the job of visualizing the magnetic field.

I am observing semi-confirmation of Howards claim of magnets being dual poled at each end based on the 8 shape of the patterns in figures 2 and 3. I am NOT claming this, I am just stating my observation as food for thought with obvious prejudice.

To me, the crt images contradict the illustrations of Flemmings right hand rule asserting circular field lines. Those are cartoons and these are photographs.

And what about the claim of magnets being dipoles? I can clearly see 4 quadrants based on the 4 light blue "lines" somewhat like a + sign dividing fig. 3a.

I see 4 "lines" protruding from either end of the magnet, and it is interesting to me that the outer ones are the same color (light blue on the left and yellow on the right). Further, on the "top"(relevant to our frame of reference - ha ha) of the magnet only 4 different lines seem to connect while on the "bottom" I see 8. This is probably due to the convex shape of the crt screen and the magnet is probably not dead nuts centered.

Is anyone else as fascinated with these images as I am? I will definitely be busting out the last crt screen in the house and playing with my magnets until I destroy it

Thanks again barbosi. I had heard one could use a crt to observe a magnetic field but that description stated modifications were required.

[Allcanadian]

@ritman2
I think we should be cautious concerning what we think we see. For instance if air was swirling around the corner of my house and I through a handful of flour in the air should I assume Flour always forms into a vortex, flour forms lines of force which spin or that flour magically forms geometric patterns when thrown in the air?. Well no that's silly and yet that is exactly what we are doing when we use something to measure the magnetic field. We have confused interactions in the media used to measure the field with the field itself.

Generally speaking there are no lines of force they are simply an external interaction with the field, flour in the wind.
There is no spin and the field is static in the space external to the source which created the field, again flour in the wind.
The field fundamentally has two directions, expansion and contraction and any other artifacts are simply....flour in the wind.

As well I can go further, there is no such thing as a magnetic field and the measurable force we perceive in the space surrounding the source is in fact just flour in the wind. The field of force we measure is another set of external interactions most have yet to fully understand thus we have labelled it as a "field" but that is not what it is fundamentally. Which leads to the most obvious question... what is a field? and how can a force be imparted through a space we believe is empty?.

AC

[Loadstone]

@ritman2
Which leads to the most obvious question... what is a field? and how can a force be imparted through a space we believe is empty?.

AC

A force can be imparted through empty space if it is an emotional force. Something(s) that are actually "living". No "lines of force" are required between them....nor do they need to emit anything. Just as a man and a woman standing in empty space can have an attraction between them....so can the constituent parts of the Aether.

[ritman2]

A force can be imparted through empty space if it is an emotional force. Something(s) that are actually "living". No "lines of force" are required between them....nor do they need to emit anything. Just as a man and a woman standing in empty space can have an attraction between them....so can the constituent parts of the Aether.

I cant see the "force" in a magnet, but I CAN see when I face 2 magnets north to north that SOMETHING is present because I cant make them touch the way I can with 2 of most other objects. That is the force I am trying to understand and the scientific explanations dont do that for me.

When I had a magnet in my hand and one on the counter and went to pick up the one on the counter and it jumped through the air, smacked into my fingers and tried to keep going to mate with the one in my hand, I said to my friend, "how can nobody else see that potential?".

So my quest is to understand what is going on there and use it to do what everyone else on this forum is trying to do: use it to get free electricity(or energy). I fully believe in the Howard Johnson motor and despite thousands of failed attempts, I am the kind of person who can not let that go. I WILL figure it out. On that subject, my perspective is, the man got a patent after 6 years of red tape, and I cannot understand nor accept why it hasnt been done. Anyone who thinks I am crazy or wasting my time is of no value to me and is incapable of any useful contribution other than their pessimism helps motivate me because I truely believe.

That was not meant to imply that you said anything of that nature, I just said whats on my mind. I will start a thread and hopefully people will post in the same spirit that I am following this thread, I agree with the OP. Peace out cub scout!

[barbosi]

I cant see the "force" in a magnet, but I CAN see when I face 2 magnets north to north that SOMETHING is present because I cant make them touch the way I can with 2 of most other objects. That is the force I am trying to understand and the scientific explanations dont do that for me.

The way I visualize the interaction between field lines of magnet's poles I described in post http://www.energeticforum.com/248696-post10.html. If it helps I will try it again with the aid of Figure 25b from post http://www.energeticforum.com/250407-post80.html.

If you draw the spiral/twisted lines for one pole, say CW (red) on a piece of paper and for the other pole CCW (blue) on other paper, put both pictures face to face (as joining opposite poles). Looking into the light through both pieces of paper you'll notice that those field lines are not intersecting, but rather they can be interlaced allowing to pass through.

In a second set of drawings try “like poles” situation. In this case it'll look like in the Figure 25b. Those lines are intersecting so if you take them as force lines, it will help to understand why similar poles are hard to press together.

Instead of colored lines on paper, same thing but rather hard to build is using some solid steel wire simulating the field lines. For “like poles” situation it will behave as a spring repulsion.

PS: Since you are determined to mess with a CRT, it may help to chose different situations as magnet shapes (speaker ring, horse shoe), or even to try an cylindrical electromagnet. Hope to hear back about your discoveries and conclusions. Soon the mind's eyes will work as good as the paper or the CRT.

[barbosi]

Watching the “Four Quadrant Representation of Electricity by Eric Dollard” video I found the attached picture.

If one would superimpose that picture with Figure 25a, it will get what I think about the real poles of a bar magnet and their relation to the “imaginary” (which BTW are organized in poles too).

Regards.

[ritman2]

Barbosi,
I tried the CRT in the place I found it... With no signal the screen is black and produces zero reaction to a small neo, over the no signal message it produced a totally different pattern.. it looked sort of a wheel(spokes actually) pattern but with dots at the end of the spokes and in between.. It definitely looked nothing like the pattern in figures 2 and 3.

I was originally going to say a pinwheel pattern but it was actually much more like a kalaidescope but sort of symetrical with circular patterns of the 3 colors and elongated near the magnet so that the circle(ish) shapes were closer to wide ovals. The no signal pattern is 3 bars, green red blue top to bottom.

A ceramic rectangle magnet that can be found at radio (sticker) shock (the ones that look like a dominoe) produced similar patterns but right at the edges of the magnet on the longer side it was similar to 3a in that one side clearly had twice as many dots as the other.

Both types of magnet were polarized through the thickness. Also the ceramic distorted the screen when removed(remember the days when we couldnt put speakers too close to the crt?) where the neo didnt.

Regarding iron filings, nanotubes with rod magnets would be an excellent way to visualize magnetic fields and verify if the field actually compresses and decompresses. Well that could be proven on a larger scale simply with a glass tube and the thinnest rod magnet you could match to it, but thinking that through, I'm pretty sure thats not happening

[ritman2]

forgot.. do you have access to the guys that did the crt photos? If possible can you find out what pattern they used? I am going to guess white. I will find a long vga cable and make some images in photoshop to mess with.

The way I visualized the invisible "field" of my first magnets was to close my eyes and move 2 magnets with like poles facing each other around for a few minutes. I also simply played with them for at least a week just randomly but for quite a few hours in that time to get used to what they would do.

I watched the Gary Hendershot interview of Eric about the “Four Quadrant Representation of Electricity by Eric Dollard” on youtube, where he turned me on to epicyclic dymamics. (unrelated)I now believe that the 4 areas seen in figure 3a were simply a 2 dimensional view and if that magnet were to be rolled in place the image would not change. I am still very curious about the double number of "lines" observed between the top and bottom of that image.

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I actually came back to report some very interesting observations regarding my bedini setup, but started by responding to your response...

I have a 5 spoke plastic mag wheel from a mongoose bmx bike with 3 stacked ceramic magnets mentioned above at 8 positions, roughly equally spaced (due to my non-precision). One is between the rim because that was easier to secure, then 2 on top perpendicular to the rim to cut down the duration of their pass of my 2 coils. The frame is a wood square made of 3/4 x 3 inch wood with two 3/4 x 2 inch crossmembers to mount the axel.

I wanted to get back to an all magnet design attempt so I removed the 2 coils, then just for the heck of it, I placed a piece of wood that I had glued 6 ceramic magnets in the pattern from an article about the HoJo motor(I think it was the infamous magazine spread, too lazy to look it up right now). The magnets were roughly the same size so I used that as a template. Its the 6 magnet linear motor setup where they get closer from one end to the other.

I messed up when super gluing the magnets to the board (just a tiny bit, maybe off by 1-2 milimeters on some) so I am not confident in it's precision, and it did NOT work as Howard intended when I placed a train track with a flatcar that had an arch shaped concoction of neo's on it. That failure I believe is due to the fact that the rails were magnetic and the flatcar while it appears to be plastic, clearly has metal inside because the magnets stuck to it.

I dont like to buy crap, and I did tell the guy at the hobby shop that it should be non-magnetic. Guess that doesnt come up much! Funny note, you shoulda seen the look on his face when I asked for a servo for a r/c monster truck steering setup and when he asked what truck it was for I said it wasnt for that. That was for an idea I had which is pretty much like a Bedini(before I learned about that) but I wanted to use a servo not an electromagnet.

Anyway, the Johnson linear motor stator setup with the 6 ceramic magnets were placed on top of the bottom board of my frame with the wider spaced magnets on the right side, and the wheel was spun clockwise. Sure enough it slows down, but when it is a couple revolutions before stopping, I clearly observed the wheel magnet(stator) getting "kicked" out such that the wheel picked up speed and I got excited.

This prompted me to attempt an unbalanced wheel situation thinking I would brute force my way into the armature's field, but alas, Mother Nature enforced Newton's Third Law even on gravity So no ground breaking findings, but I thought the forum users MIGHT find it interesting.

Some other thoughts I have had were to take advantage of the fact that magnets will align themselves to magnetic North, but I know that too will be cancelled out by the third amendment. Howard Johnson researched magnetic shading, but I do not have high hopes as I tried some configurations with that in mind.

So presently I am pondering magnetic shielding. Anyone who has harvested hard drive magnets knows that they do exist, and work, so while I go find out what prevents that from being the Holy Grail of FE(not that a bunch of others havent already), I invite any comments and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism if anyone is so inclined.

Last notes, I tried to pick up on the not so obvious things Howard has stated, and one thing that interests me is that regarding a circular motor design, he said MOVEABLE armature. Now that might seem obvious as a way to start the motor, but I can say for sure that in pretty much all of my experiments with mounting magnets to the steel balls on a Newton's Cradle, the slightest motion of a hand held magnet would have have a dramatic impact on the rebound of a magnet swinging on a string.

One thing that keeps me motivated despite the constant failures I encounter on it's behalf IS Newton's Third Law... Electricity produces magnetism, therefore magnetism HAS TO produce electricity. Happy hunting everyone

[Loadstone]

@Ritman....when you put two like poles together you are pointing streams of individual Nth pole magnets at each other. They are only attracted to the opposite kind....they are individual entities and they "know" which kind is which. Each entity has a front and a back which you can determine by a few simple tests. They are two kinds, but although they are attracted to the opposite kind they never stick together but always pass each other by. If they stuck together the whole universe would be a single lump of mass.
These entities use the light as a body...they go along with the light...and we call it the magnetic part of the light as shown in many graphs. They are much smaller than the light. They only move forwards and have to physically turn around to travel in the opposite direction...as they do in AC current. They can only move against the opposite kind. In a bar magnet they are in a perpetual orbit until you physically break that orbit....then the magnet is not a magnet any more. They are the excess substance in permanent magnets.....

[Siggi1974]

Quick statement on my tests

Just a quick reply to share my findings...

Experimenting since two years now with a Bedini setup I tried now a setup that I posted earlier and I feel this setup (90 degrees turned coils) is superior than using coils facing the rotor Magnets. I used two bifilar coils at 90 degree orientation. I did not use a washer plate yet to improve attraction, just a ferrit cores. The two bifilar coils are in series, so 1st winding of coil 1 to first winding of coil 2 to second winding of coil 1 and back to second winding of coil 2. The circuit is switched by an adjustable trigger coil and a TIP 122 NPN transistor. There is one diode used to get the spikes back from the - side of the switched coils and given into a completely dead battery with a 2,5 Volt potential left. My observations are...
The sytem likes potential. I am using a 30 Volt supply with 5A. When I do not add the dead battery or a load the sytem is using about 0.4 A, will burn the Transistor down and reduce speed. With a load at the back the A reduce to over half, the System is increasing speed and transistor stays cold (not even warm). When I draw the cores and leave them as air coils the sytem increases Amps and slows down. The cores add induction and attraction to the system and reduce my amp draw...I feel if I could get still closer with the coils the amp draw will decrease further. My System runs now at a good speed with almost 1,6 Watts (20 Volts and 0,08 A) and everything is staying cold The Potential in the dead battery increases from 2,5 to almost 13 Volts as soon as you add it to the back and you can run a load on it.
Will test further.

Regards
Siggi

[ritman2]

@loadstone - I re-read my post and I can see why u think I am a mook, but I have replicated HJ's linear motor twice(worked the first time with neo stators), built a Bedini motor that runs and charges batteries(not self running but close) and studied magnetism intensely so I was stunned you think I dont know that pole to pole repels.

I am definitely a noob compared to this forum's users but I know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2. After a second re-read, yeah I said some stupid isht so THANKS for not tearing me apart!

[thx1138]

...over the no signal message it produced a totally different pattern..

The no signal message is displayed by electrons from the electron gun hitting the phosphors on the screen. The electrons are guided by electromagnets inside the yoke to hit particular individual phosphors to produce red, green, or blue depending on the color the phosphor emits. What is being seen on the monitor is the deflection of the electron beams onto phosphors they were not intended to hit. That does not mean the magnetic field is twisted but that the elctron beams are deflected from their intended course.

Even the no signal message is displayed via the electron gun hitting phosphors. It's just saying that the monitor circuit isn't detecting an incoming signal.

As Allcanadian said, you are seeing the effects of the force interacting with the matter around it. The nature of that interaction is also dependent upon the nature of the matter with which it is interacting.

Remove all power from the CRT monitor and hold your magnet up to the screen and what will you see? In fact, try it on an LCD monitor or television that has no electron beams that is powered up and displaying this page.

[thx1138]

Double Helical Magnetic Interaction

Good animations of the double helix flow. Scroll down as there are several.
LEEDSKALNIN.COM: MAGNETIC CURRENT RESEARCH