My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[machinealive]

Hey kogs

The motors I wound last, had 25 turns of 20.5 ga. I think each coil was like
1 - 1.2 ohms.

Midas it will be interesting to see imperials testing results.

Machine

[iankoglin]

Hello Kogs,

What I said was that IF the Bifilar would end up in similar or equal turns as the single wire...then go single
BUT, if the Bifilar was much larger number of turns than Single, then go Bifilar.

Hope your choice came after realizing the above...

Ok, you mean 3 Pairs, not Poles, so you did P1, P2 and P3...and 15 turns is excellent!



Something wrong there friend...DMM=2 Ohms, Total Resistance=6 Ohms, so 6 minus 2=4 Ohms and not 2 Ohms at Pair...BUT, still, there is something wrong...you must have near 1.0 Ohms per Pair of Coils or around 0.9 to 0.7 Ohms and not 4 Ohms.

Check with another DMM...besides, honestly I never heard of DMM Internal resistance though... ...when I set my DMM's to measure resistance they give me the already physical reading from whatever component am measuring, without doing any extra adding or subtracting...but make sure you have low resistance capabilities on DMM...like 200 ohms or lower the more precise reading.

I recommend to get a One Ohm Resistor...and measure it with DMM...See what you get...and go from there



My Imperial read around 0.8 to 0.9 per PAIR (not Pole... )

Machine Alive Imperial went from 0.7 to 0.6 Ohms but He used like 19 awg

You are doing just GREAT!...I am sure these are DMM issues, errors...Your Imperial is gonna kick some A**!!...


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

G'day UFO and thanks for your Post here a bit of light for me.

I have always understood that an armature has Poles and we wind one Pole P1 and it is made up of 2 Half poles one South half and one North half and when we wind we were always Number of turns per North or South half of this pole SO HERE IS where the light comes in
The p1 is really Pair 1 and P2 is Pair 2.

I remember some time ago on another forum that it was mentioned that when measuring coils we need to take into account the internal resistant measurement of the DMM.
I can see from your post and it makes sense to me and the above advice must be wrong.

I just now took a 1 ohm metal film resistor and read the value with my 3 DMM,s
The first a Vichy DMM the resistor measured 1.3 the internal resistance =0.2
The other 2 Dick Smith DMM's resistor was 1.4 the internal resistance -0.4

I also measured the 3 coils/Pairs I wound on the Imperial P56
The Vichy DMM read 0.7 Ohms
the first Dick Smith was 0.7 and the second one was 0.6

UFO my friend I will continue winding this armature with the AWG18
and will wind another with Bifilar .6mm diam.

Kindest regards

Kogs still trying hard

[Ufopolitics]

G'day UFO and thanks for your Post here a bit of light for me.

I have always understood that an armature has Poles and we wind one Pole P1 and it is made up of 2 Half poles one South half and one North half and when we wind we were always Number of turns per North or South half of this pole SO HERE IS where the light comes in
The p1 is really Pair 1 and P2 is Pair 2.

An Armature has Poles, in the case of Imperial, it has 28 poles total.
Yes, P1 stands for Pair One, containing Two Coils in series, one North one South, where each Coil grabs, wraps around Seven Poles.

I remember some time ago on another forum that it was mentioned that when measuring coils we need to take into account the internal resistant measurement of the DMM.
I can see from your post and it makes sense to me and the above advice must be wrong.

Well am not saying it is right or wrong to measure DMM's resistance...what I for sure can tell you, is that I have not been measuring it before, so, when I have said my Pairs have 0.9, that means what I have read straight from DMM.

I just now took a 1 ohm metal film resistor and read the value with my 3 DMM,s
The first a Vichy DMM the resistor measured 1.3 the internal resistance =0.2
The other 2 Dick Smith DMM's resistor was 1.4 the internal resistance -0.4

I also measured the 3 coils/Pairs I wound on the Imperial P56
The Vichy DMM read 0.7 Ohms
the first Dick Smith was 0.7 and the second one was 0.6

UFO my friend I will continue winding this armature with the AWG18
and will wind another with Bifilar .6mm diam.

Kindest regards

Kogs still trying hard

That's great, 0.7 ohms is just fine...always consider that resistors are also not that precise on Milli ohms...so one could be 1.2 and other, same batch, be 1.3...

Like I wrote before...Do not worry friend, that Imperial is gonna kick the sh**T out of Machine's one...


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

Hello

Hey kogs, good luck with that, .

I finally finished getting my ring mounted on that small build I was working on.

Now I can take my plates to get turned. Hopefully Tuesday. I'll give my bud a call tomorrow, about your dual rotor design, may have to do some wheeling and dealing myself.


Hey, UFO, do you still have any of your custom golf carts, I have two friends who own golf course. That's 2 golf courses. They wanted to see some pics of your work? If you still sell them.

later

[ajaya999]

Back in Action with forum spirits

Dear UFOPOLITICS and Team,

Namaste. I am sorry for my previous post which does not add any value to this valuable thread. Please ignore it.

I am back to work. Earlier I wound the motor(1 hp with 15 poles) wrongly and tried. By the time I received the drawings by UFO, I started winding it in multiple of 5 design and didn't visit our forum for about a month. Later I studied the drawings that UFO has given. I understood my mistake. Despite that I continued with that wrongly wound one. It didn't deliver the required results, naturally as it's not the design of UFO.

Now I unwound everything and started rewinding. I finished 13 poles so far and winding wire finished .
Will get it tomorrow and complete the balance.

Kogs,

In my motor's case, the manufacturer's winding was with 23 SWG and number of turns was 300. So in my earlier trial I went with the same. I used 23 SWG and maintained the number of turns per pole at 20 (thinking that 15 poles X 20 turns per pole i.e.,300 turns - matching the manufacturer's number of turns) . But the pair was not having the required ohms. When I was checking the earlier winding with 23 SWG, it was showing .8 to 1 ohm per coil. I ignored the meter's internal resistance. Later I checked into my meter by shorting the leads. It was showing .4 ohms. Means that 23 SWG was in fact only .4 to .6 ohms - not meeting our requirements.

So far I understood that when we are winding UFO machine, it is the resistance that matters. Means the amount of wire (weight of copper) present. And of course proper care should be taken on selecting the gauge of wire keeping in view its current carrying capacity.

Now this time, I moved to 25 SWG. I took slightly above 18 meters of 25 SWG per pair. This gives a res of about 1.5 to 1.6 ohms. The number of turns coming is about 21-23 per pole (this is only indicative. as the rotor gets filled with the wire, the number of turns comes down). When I was checking the res, it's 2 ohms in meter. And from it once the meter's internal res (.4 ohms) is removed, it would be 1.6 ohms per pair. Hope this resistance is OK.

Friends, will complete the winding tomorrow and start posting the results by tomorrow evening, delayed most by Tuesday.

Regards and Namaste

Kumar

[Ufopolitics]

Hello

Hey kogs, good luck with that, .

I finally finished getting my ring mounted on that small build I was working on.

Now I can take my plates to get turned. Hopefully Tuesday. I'll give my bud a call tomorrow, about your dual rotor design, may have to do some wheeling and dealing myself.


Hey, UFO, do you still have any of your custom golf carts, I have two friends who own golf course. That's 2 golf courses. They wanted to see some pics of your work? If you still sell them.

later

Hey Machine,

Please post videos of that little build when done!

On the Dual Rotor Imperial, we do not need such sophisticated bridge design like I originally posted...

[IMG][/IMG]

After designing the Three Pole Dual...I realized just another set of laminates without the poles would do...in order to simplify design plus reduce co$t$.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

This way much easier to cut on waterjet...we could use long fine bolts/nuts at common areas to Inner-Outer rotor to secure the whole assembly.


My 911 Electric Golf Car Design? 0-60 MPH in two hours?... ...Yeah, not seconds, until I install the Imperial Asymmetric...






It is based on a Club Car Aluminum Chassis...Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber Body...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[erfinder]

Hey Machine,

My 911 Electric Golf Car Design? 0-60 MPH in two hours?... ...Yeah, not seconds, until I install the Imperial Asymmetric...






It is based on a Club Car Aluminum Chassis...Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber Body...


Regards


Ufopolitics

WOoooooow. That thing is too cool, is it yours? When are you going to install your motor in it?


Regards

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks...

WOoooooow. That thing is too cool, is it yours? When are you going to install your motor in it?


Regards

Thanks Erfinder,

You have a great Thread open there as well, very interesting, and very nice machines and effects.
I congratulate you for opening it and exposing your findings in the open...I will stop by in time, when I feel I could contribute to be of some useful help.

I built this small Body a few years ago...and I have made the Molds, actually this is like the third I have built...no big mass production..

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Prior I have built an exotic real car from scratch...mid engine, very slant nose...455 Engine Block...very fast...I also want to make it electric.

Unfortunately GE is the one who makes the motor for this model and it is not convertible to asymmetric because of too narrow poles that would only take the single heavy gauge wire...so, adapting it requires pretty expensive adapting machine work to its trans-axle.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

Nice UFO

My 8 year old son asked if you have any monster trucks, .

Are you still manufacturing or selling any of those. Nova Scotia has an over abundance of golf courses. I could probably wheel and deal, maybe one to each course as a " clubhouse car" . Were you selling lots or just custom jobs for people.

Machine

[Ufopolitics]

Nice UFO

My 8 year old son asked if you have any monster trucks, .

Are you still manufacturing or selling any of those. Nova Scotia has an over abundance of golf courses. I could probably wheel and deal, maybe one to each course as a " clubhouse car" . Were you selling lots or just custom jobs for people.

Machine

LOL Machine,

Tell your son...I only have made and installed an asymmetric motor on my Four year old Grandaughter's Barbie Pink Corvette...so, she wonders why she can so easily kick As* of all other kids big Monster Trucks, Escalades and Jeeps...leaving them in the middle of the road needing a jump start...

I have only built the 911 per custom order...and only made three...including this one that is seating in my garage.

[IMG][/IMG]

The first one was the Red one on right...classic headlamps and bigger whale tail.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[ajaya999]

reverse winding

Ohhh. I just noticed I did the winding in just opposite.

UFO drawing says ccw on rhs and cw on lhs

I just did it in reverse - all 13 pairs...

wtd... shall i continue - again only to understand it doesn't work

perhaps the swelling in my fingers go eternal

Hey sir, wtd. continue or unwind and redo?

kumar
looking at his swollen fingers...
(kogs style imitator )

[Ufopolitics]

Ohhh. I just noticed I did the winding in just opposite.

UFO drawing says ccw on rhs and cw on lhs

I just did it in reverse - all 13 pairs...

wtd... shall i continue - again only to understand it doesn't work

perhaps the swelling in my fingers go eternal

Hey sir, wtd. continue or unwind and redo?

kumar
looking at his swollen fingers...

(kogs style imitator )

Kumar,

Just finish the two pairs left...then if you wanted rotation in specific original way as diagram...then reverse Input.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[ajaya999]

reversing input

hi sir,

namaste.

thanks for the immediate reply. will do it so sir. post the results by tomorrow evening.

once again thanks for the immediate response.

regards and namaste.

kumar

[machinealive]

UFO
I just had my whole post typed and I got kicked.

Ufo, if you ever wanted to sell some of you carts let me know, or even consider selling copies of your molds, to body guys so they can sell to local golf courses, seems like a good idea.

Anyway, here was a little vid I made of my progress.

Induction motor progress - YouTube

So, UFO, we have to decide for sure on a plan, before I get a quote. take you're time, and think of everything. Will the magnets be heavier, or the coils, which do we spin, I am still envisioning the middle section to be easier to spin, I would like to see how brush plates fit, or did you guys get the tronics done for brushless? what if we glued magnets to outside of imperial housing(double up), then make outer rotor to fit. We could replace the mags with rare earth. Just saying, there's so many options.

We have a lump of marble to create something with. If any one else is going to want to get in on this, the most expensive part of waterjet is setup, they get cheaper as you buy more. Just a heads up.

later

machine

[sampojo]

Price of a new baldor full retail

Machinealive

Here are my thoughts:

1.) It's a Prototype motor that takes about 34hours of touching to hand build it!

2.) It can run a 6kw generator @ 48v ~ 60v(up to wire gage) no problem

3.) EV applications; electric motorcycles, small ev cars, go karts...etc (perfect for 250cc class motorcycles = most sold and currently on the road world wide)

4.) It has the capability to run on 2 channels for ECO mode; charge back the battery pack and extend range\highway driving. (It looks like it's better than regenerative braking!) *WOW FACTOR*

5.) I've haven't found a motor in the same weight that comes close to the efficiency. From UFOs homemade torque test, this motor would be considered by National Electrical Manufacturers Association(NEMA) in the Super Premium Efficiency class(IE4) = $$$$$!
*NOTE* Hopefully we will have official lab test results soon.

6.) Asymmetric Imperial motors are super rare! Less than 10 handmade motors on the planet. Your motor is number two and it's been in all the YouTube test videos!

Conclusion: The bidding has started at $2000 for the #2 Asymmetric UFO Imperial prototype motor By: Machinealive......

*HINT* I feel as though a regular UFO motor should start @ $3600, if it was in production phase. If it's efficiency rating is in the IE4 class by NEMA from lab testing, It would be a lot more$$$$$

Here's a chance to buy a Cutting Edge Technology that you can't buy off of the shelf. Good luck with your bidding ladies and gentlemen


Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Little low methinks. Price point for a production model Baldor 2-stator symmetric 3/4 hp was $1000. whats a 4-stator Imperial? Then add a few mutliples for handmade prototype and some more for it power to weight ratio, let alone that it has got to be in the upper hp range for a 56 frame motor... I think I have seen them conventionally as high as 10 hp. Could be I got something wrong there...