My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[machinealive]

Hey Cornboy

Yes Cornboy you gotta get that wire in as deep as you can. I used lots of resin on the shaft, but not insulation paper, but you can. Make sure you are going to have enough room to connect coils to commutator, as you get to outer coils, they start to cover commutator.

Good luck Cornboy

[sampojo]

Re: Ufo QP10 video request

Hello Sampojo!

Excellent run!, I knew you will align system so it will work sweet!

Could you make a Video?...and please make sure you have amp meter set for DC Amps...

If those Parameters are Linear...Imagine done with the Pulsers!....

Great RPM's!!

Please do NOT go higher Voltage yet...let's see how it behaves pulsing it at 12V first...

So it seems it was a mechanical drag...plus filthy commutator gaps?


Great work!!




Let's keep rolling!


Regards


Ufopolitics

Video made.

I also get about 8v out of an idle brush set.
QP10 Demo
Eager to try the Neon out to get a look at RE, maybe it will work with my conventional PWM?
Interested in seeing if a FWBR helps gen output any, gonna try an O-scope hook-up soon. Want to see just how much amps I can get out of the generator brush application. The temps got up to 117 before I shut it down on no-load. Ufo, what do you think is causing that hot spot? It worries me. My little RS motor burnt up at about 130.

Getting parts in for the MD5.1 boards.

Cornman nice to see rotor coming together. Sure hope those PCBs make it on that slow boat they must have used

[Ufopolitics]

Hello my Friend

Hello

I thought the vid downloaded last night. Guess not.
Here is the video,

4hg switch - YouTube

Also, I shouldn't have said the resistors were toast. I don't know yet if they are toast. I couldn't find them after I set them down, to check. But I will find them. I could have loosened them installing sinks, but I tried to re-solder before I removed them, and that didn't help. Once I unhook the hg's, I'll recheck fets, etc, but I don't need to, for now, and I know none are shorted. Not home right now.

edit, Cornboy, she's looking good.

Hey Machine,

Nice run, I understand what you are doing now, pulsing the coils of each solenoid with your 4 Monster Pulsers...nice, but you could notice Mercury have some "delay" due to its density...compared to the fast FET's switching...till the solenoids "catch up", then motor "jump start" pretty high...can be heard/noticed on video every time you start Imperial.

And honestly, my Friend, what I would love to see is the opposite, meaning, Pulses and Motor response, very close ...but Mainly, Pulses ahead of Motor "kicks", as also would like to see Motor "Stepping Up" gradually from a low duty signal through a gradual increase...to be able to observe Response of Motor versus Pulses better.

Whenever you hook direct FET Feed (no Solenoids), you will see the difference am talking about.

And the idea is that Motor is always trying to catch up with Pulses, but, within a reasonable proximity between Signal and Motor Response...Then we could say we are really "Driving/Steering" Motor.

Normally the bearing that goes bad is the rear...since the front is pretty "adequate" (much bigger and heavier built) for this Motor Shaft/Weight.

But you are getting there, and Your Imperial is at "Top Shape"...so all you have to do is synchronize/tune this Four Signals and Machine response.

Warm Regards Friend

Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Hitby13kw

Machine,viewed your latest work, 2850 RPM 36V 4.6A - 3200 48V 4.9A a very interesting run, most intrigued by your use of the monster FET driver to energize the coils of 4 mercury relays instead of directly driving the motor (that’s one way to not burn out the FETs), what are the specs on your relays? After digging around in my old stuff a bit I was able to find 4 with 48VDC coils supposed to be able to switch 50A 600VAC might have to try that. What code are you running in the Arduino?

Hitby13kw

Hello Hitby,

Where\you saw the low amperage, was at the black cables from each Gate, when Machine connects it to Positive (red cable) he gets from 9-11.0 Amps.

Normal Relays will end up "fusing" contacts, unless they are rated 100 Amps or more, I would say best would be 200 amps...and that is from Radiant High Spikes...will actually "solder" or "spot weld" those contacts, that's the reason I tried with Mercury Solenoids...since they never fuse...but, the "draw back"...is that they are "slower than molasses"...reason why, they can not keep up with our required On-Off radical switching.

The ones Machine is using are rated at 100 Amps...and that is the Max Amps they make them.

Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Yes, That is Right!

Hello Everyone, i sorta knew i would be asking you guy's questions like this, i can hear UFO's, voice in the background, saying " i told you so " to start on small motors first.

Hey Cornboy...

I am positively sure you have never been so darn right!

So the very first rotor i have ever wound is the MAG3, and after winding the first coil pair, it dawned on me that i won't be able to fit the next pair right down in the bottom of the groove, because the first pair are in the way.

So from what i see, you need to wind the first lots of coil pairs with a large Fan type loop right down to the shaft, and as flat as possible, to leave room for the next pair, correct?

Exactly right, however in December of last year, I spent do not know how many hours making the "Asymmetric Winding Tutorial Videos"...and, IF, You would have watched them...specifically PART 1, I show how...I tried to use a brand new and shiny 16 gauge...but unfortunately was NOT Able to use it...just because I have exactly the problem you are having now...

But, Cornboy, further more...I can see those wires are TOO LOOSE...not as tight and compacted as they are supposed to be (also taught in My FREE Tutorial Videos..)

So i will need to insulate the shaft and rotor face, just to be sure?

I thought that you had already insulated this rotor...as I remember you were sanding the epoxy runs...?!

And now I see that cheap motor manufactured...wrap around paper...on a Three Million, Six Hundred and Nine thousand "Legal Tender Notes"...??!!

It seems silly to be asking these basic questions, just lack of experience, is all.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]

Not only that Cornboy...I see you will have future trouble...with the way you have set commutator wire hooks...stealing space from where Coils would be stacked...

And, yes, I must tell You AGAIN...IF You would have done -at least- a $5.99 USD Radio Shack little Motor...not to say that an Imperial would have been the perfect "Training" ...then, you would have learned...that coils stack one on top of another...building up space...and WILL DEFINITIVELY CONFLICT...with your lower commutator screws/hooks...

So...Now (GOD, please, GRANT me the Patience, the Serenity ... )

Now, You could try again, packing those coils MUCH TIGHTER...pushing them with wood paint sticks/rounded edges, NOT SHARP!...and WATCH MY VIDEO #1...AS ALSO GO OVER MY DIAGRAM...that you have there, right on top of your bench...so you see how many Coils will need to pass through same slot...THEN MEASURE RESISTANCE with just ONE PAIR...then you will know if or not...to get a finer wire ...just like I did...that had to end up with 18 gauge on my Imperial.

I see something else there...that according to my tutorials with Imperial...is wrong...

I am seeing the South (marked by your red painted outer poles dots)...ABOVE NORTH...and that is NOT what I did...I started South First...therefore it should be the other way around...

So, get a nice Glass of wine...and watch my video(s) Cornboy...(please note the date when I uploaded this Videos) then ask some more questions after you are done.

Asymmetrical Winding Part 1 - YouTube

Asymmetrical Winding Part 2 - YouTube

Asymmetrical Winding Part 3 - YouTube

Your MAG3 is basically wounded as an Imperial, but, with Eight more Pairs (P28-P36)...therefore the "Check Up" or Comparative Coils, are defined in Your diagram, positioned by your Brushes...and they are NOT across at 180º-90º, but at 120º-60º.


Warm Regards Friend


Ufopolitics

[JerryMarcinko]

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[machinealive]

Cornboy,

I would remove those connectors you've placed on the commutators, they take up way too much room. Cut slits in the commutator elements, smaller then wire you use, then tap wire into slots to secure, maybe try on a piece of scrap copper first, to get size right. If you need smaller wire later for coils, you can use bigger wire pieces to lock into comms. Unless you can pull comms out some. Sorry Cornboy, but that's my opinion. It would be a shame to get over half done and find you are burying your commutator.

[Cornboy 555]

OK.

@ Machine, thanks for your suggestions, the reason i have pressed the brass rod, drilled out in the middle, into the comms, is because of a missunderstanding with the Indian Manufacturer, on the length dimension of the brush contact area, slotting would enter the brush area.

The brass rod is drilled a little larger than wire, and because it protrudes from the comms, i can solder the coil wires in, for excellent contact, with a mini flame, without heating the comms at all.

As you know, scratch building is sorta like make it up as you go, sometimes, and i underestimated the room neccessary for the windings. I will move the comms out a further 20mm, to fit wire in, just need to modify end caps.

@ UFO, i watched all your vids when you first made them, way back, now that it comes to the reality of actual winding, they look even better!.

The epoxy i used was always, just to bind the laminations, before inserting the insulating paper, and the only high temp one i could find had a 3 min gel time, i was too slow on draining the rotor after dipping, and the build up was all over the place, and took up valuable wire room in the slots.

I spent countless hours removing this build up, and there was still some bare spots inside the slots, not good for high voltage that may be encountered later on.

The Nomex paper i have used i wouldn't call Cheap, and is quite a heavy .25mm or 10 thou, tough as old boots i would say, after cutting some.

The resistance of the first coil pair, com to com, measured with three different gauges, is 0.7 to 0.8 ohms, this coil is 72 turns of 1.26mm OD, including insulation.

I will wind the south coil first, as you suggest UFO, and this build will be practice for the next one to come, although, i am thinking of larger dia rotor, with seperate, removable poles, than can accept presision wound coils on special bobbins, just slipped on and connected up!

Yeh still dreaming, Warm Regards Cornboy.

[machinealive]

Hey Cornboy

You know I wasn't trying to pick your work, just help. Moving the comms out 20 mm is great, problem solved.

I should have also said, I would leave extra paper sticking out at slots, not just at ends, but along top of slot. When you get to outer coils, they can rub/ catch on slots, when things start getting tight, and if you leave extra you can tuck it in on each side when all done, use thin plastic or wood, makes it neater, then use wooden wedges to cover paper. This is not a must do, but a save time, and neater suggestion. The top corners of the slots, can be hard on your outer coils.

Your motor is gonna rock, Cornboy.

I got a new solder iron today, I'm gonna replace those diodes, hopefully that was the problem.

[iankoglin]

Video made.

I also get about 8v out of an idle brush set.
QP10 Demo
Eager to try the Neon out to get a look at RE, maybe it will work with my conventional PWM?
Interested in seeing if a FWBR helps gen output any, gonna try an O-scope hook-up soon. Want to see just how much amps I can get out of the generator brush application. The temps got up to 117 before I shut it down on no-load. Ufo, what do you think is causing that hot spot? It worries me. My little RS motor burnt up at about 130.

Getting parts in for the MD5.1 boards.

Cornman nice to see rotor coming together. Sure hope those PCBs make it on that slow boat they must have used

G'day Sampojo
Good build and excellent video
One thing I noticed is you said you have 2 batteries to run the machine and a Power supply to back up the batteries So the batteries run your motor and the Power supply charges the batteries at the same time.
If this is so Your batteries will not last long the workings of a battery is a chemical operation and it takes time to complete the process so between charging and discharging of a battery you need to rest them, if you do both discharge and charge at the same time You will destroy your battery.
I have tested this and destroyed a large battery Rather than use batteries and the power supply use a large capacitor between the power supply and the motor and anytime you use a power supply where it is connected to a machine that creates Radiant energy you also need a large cap to protect the power supply from the spikes this I have also experienced.

However I have been led to believe but not tested it yet that when you use pulses to drive a machine as they are short charges and that the battery can be charged between the pulses to the driven machine that is short pulses to charge the battery. Also the pulses to the battery need to be above twice the nominal battery voltage.

Kindest Regards


Kogs trying to be helpful

[Cornboy 555]

All Good.

Hey Machine, i know you weren't picking, it's all good, and thanks.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[Cornboy 555]

Somewhere.

Video made.

I also get about 8v out of an idle brush set.
QP10 Demo
Eager to try the Neon out to get a look at RE, maybe it will work with my conventional PWM?
Interested in seeing if a FWBR helps gen output any, gonna try an O-scope hook-up soon. Want to see just how much amps I can get out of the generator brush application. The temps got up to 117 before I shut it down on no-load. Ufo, what do you think is causing that hot spot? It worries me. My little RS motor burnt up at about 130.

Getting parts in for the MD5.1 boards.

Cornman nice to see rotor coming together. Sure hope those PCBs make it on that slow boat they must have used

Hey Sampojo, nice video, and motor looks great, thanks for that, the latest tracking on boards says, : processed at Jamaica NY on 21st July, so i guess they are in the air somewhere!.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Video made.

I also get about 8v out of an idle brush set.
QP10 Demo
Eager to try the Neon out to get a look at RE, maybe it will work with my conventional PWM?
Interested in seeing if a FWBR helps gen output any, gonna try an O-scope hook-up soon. Want to see just how much amps I can get out of the generator brush application. The temps got up to 117 before I shut it down on no-load. Ufo, what do you think is causing that hot spot? It worries me. My little RS motor burnt up at about 130.

Getting parts in for the MD5.1 boards.

Cornman nice to see rotor coming together. Sure hope those PCBs make it on that slow boat they must have used

Hello Sampojo,

Great Video!...I will load it on Site replications on Quad Penta Machines. Love the build...Motor runs strong, great RPM's...Low consumption even linear...or with a Symmetric Controller.

Now let's review some details here...

First, in order to get fast and accurate RPM's readings (I notice how many times you try to get them)...AI recommend to trow some flat black enamel paint on shaft...masking the Reflective paper...that will send clear signals to your Tach...

The heating up of your motor , I believe is mainly due to very little amount of ventilation holes, based on the type of machine you have built.
Environment air needs to flow back and forth...as that dissipates the concentration of hot air inside a closed stator frame.

If you look at any Brushed Symmetric Motor...would notice ventilation holes basically at brushes/commutator area, and I am talking about Motors designed for long periods of running time....not to "momentary" operation...like a window motor...or a Starter Motor for Automotive.

Now realize that we have Two Commutator/Brushes Areas...

The second reason is Motor running linear or with your Symmetric Oscillator.(which is almost the same thing as linear)..and basically when using Dual Parallel Brush Gates...


Will love to see Normal Output on that Motor Generator Gates...plus "jumping" rear terminals and reading Max Out, by adding batteries Input...

Nice work Joe!...You are getting a great training and Experience on this small Motor...and that will help you a LOT...when you build and "hit" that Imperial with the Quad Pulsers...I know it will be awesome!

Warm Regards friend!


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Cornboy

@ Machine, thanks for your suggestions, the reason i have pressed the brass rod, drilled out in the middle, into the comms, is because of a missunderstanding with the Indian Manufacturer, on the length dimension of the brush contact area, slotting would enter the brush area.

The brass rod is drilled a little larger than wire, and because it protrudes from the comms, i can solder the coil wires in, for excellent contact, with a mini flame, without heating the comms at all.

As you know, scratch building is sorta like make it up as you go, sometimes, and i underestimated the room neccessary for the windings. I will move the comms out a further 20mm, to fit wire in, just need to modify end caps.

@ UFO, i watched all your vids when you first made them, way back, now that it comes to the reality of actual winding, they look even better!.

The epoxy i used was always, just to bind the laminations, before inserting the insulating paper, and the only high temp one i could find had a 3 min gel time, i was too slow on draining the rotor after dipping, and the build up was all over the place, and took up valuable wire room in the slots.

I spent countless hours removing this build up, and there was still some bare spots inside the slots, not good for high voltage that may be encountered later on.

The Nomex paper i have used i wouldn't call Cheap, and is quite a heavy .25mm or 10 thou, tough as old boots i would say, after cutting some.

The resistance of the first coil pair, com to com, measured with three different gauges, is 0.7 to 0.8 ohms, this coil is 72 turns of 1.26mm OD, including insulation.

I will wind the south coil first, as you suggest UFO, and this build will be practice for the next one to come, although, i am thinking of larger dia rotor, with seperate, removable poles, than can accept presision wound coils on special bobbins, just slipped on and connected up!

Yeh still dreaming, Warm Regards Cornboy.

Hello Cornboy,

I believe your Rotor will have better Insulation if You add some High Temp Epoxy, just to your Top and bottom Rotor drums flat area...and extend it to shaft "necks" upper and lower...after you set up the commutators properly apart...and yes 20 mm outwards will give you plenty of room...which is great.

Related to the Brass fittings you have used...I believe , I understand now why you did it...Brushes needed that much room to travel/ride on Commutator elements, so you cut/lathe the connecting bigger ring ...right?

I will tell you my opinion...

First, I do not know...if you know commutator elements have what they call a "Duck Tail" shaped pattern where the Mica is set in between and within...this is the way commutator elements retain stronger within Mica...and I hope, when you drilled the holes to insert your brass fittings...you had this extensions from each element within the Mica...in mind...otherwise , if drill bit, cut the Duck's Tail...in time all elements will start to get loose there...so, again, I hope you did have this in mind...or whoever drilled this holes...and only manufacturer could give you exact dimensions of Duck's Tail extension area towards shaft...

But, that is done, so...let's keep moving along...

My second Opinion on this Brass Bars...is NOT to solder wires...no matter if you use a Propane Torch...On High Voltage/longer operation Machines, like you plan MAG 3 to operate...requires a mechanical pressed connection...not soldering.

So...My third opinion would be to make "L" shape brass brackets, that would use same holes, but will set the connection side towards the outer/lower area of commutator...that will restore the vertical space you are using now...then just drill small holes and tap them...for a bolt to attach the Coil's wires....You could use a washer connector, pressed to wires...or just wrap wires around bolt with a small washer....Let me know if you understand this...or I will make a diagram...

Cornboy, my friend, I did not mean to pick on your build...as I have been trying to help you build it as stronger and long lasting as it could possibly be done...PLUS, trying to save You from MANY Future and possible "Living Nightmares"...and Frustrations...reason why... I told you to build other smaller size machines...the practice and experience in Asymmetrical Machines is very Important, not only to build a Motor from scratch...but, A Motor that would be the top of its class...so far...


Warm regards Friend


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Melt?

Hello UFO, are you saying that the comms could reach a temperature that could melt the solder?

If that's the case i will rethink how to connect wires. The coil wires enter into the brass tubes about 8mm. The tubes are 4mm dia, and have a 2mm hole drilled in them.

I welcome any comments you may have UFO.

Regards Friend. Cornboy