My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

About rewinding this Thread...

Hello to All,

Guys, You know me by now...and I would not "sacrifice" all I have displayed here, Criticize my own work rendered here for about two years...unless I will be giving you ALL something MUCH better in Quality, Quantity and Performance...Something "beyond"...

And what really bothers me...is that I (and We all) had it all this time right in front of me (and in front of You too Guys)...but I (or we all) could not see it!!

Remember this little Motor?...My First exposed here because of being made out of Three Poles?

[IMG][/IMG]

You could go back on this Thread and look how many times I mentioned about the "greatness" of this type of little Machine.

Then I jumped to this one...The Five Poles Radio Shack:

[IMG][/IMG]

What MAIN, BIG TIME difference You guys see right in front of our noses...besides the obvious Pole Number of 3 and 5?

Basically am referring to Rotor windings difference...

Simple...the Three Poles does NOT have North-South Pairs rotating within same SPACE RING...They are ALL North Poles...or could be ALL South if we reverse the Input.

When they are all North...Their related South poles are ALL Projecting towards shaft...and viceversa...

The point is...NEVER an opposite Pole will take the SPACE of the other...so ALL NORTHS will ALWAYS be rotating while projecting their fields OUTWARDS...while ALL Souths would be projecting field INWARDS towards shaft...

The Five Pole...or any of the following Higher Poles Models repeat the same attributes the Three Poles had.

Why the difference? ...Does it makes that much of a change?

YES!!

By rotating same polarity at Interacting ends (Eg All Norths)...it takes very little to "enhance" (refill) again the Solid North at times to be fired...no South or reverse flux generated within Steel Cores, and that acts like a transformer here, where all flux travels through and collides every time each opposite pole takes the SPATIAL Positioning of the previous opposite one...

[IMG][/IMG]

Something "similar" to this 3D Diagram...but with the South at center of Cylinder, as also comprehending shaft.

Whenever We use a South next to a North (Symmetry does it at all times...and so we also did except in the Three poles) we get the example below:

[IMG][/IMG]

And My way to know for sure was pretty simple:

Two RS Motors, Five Poles...One, like the Typical P5 shown on above diagram...using EXACTLY SAME awg and number of turns...I wound a Five Poles with ALL NORTH Poles at rotor...that's it.

[IMG][/IMG]

No more Red Lines...or Yellow or Orange...all BLUE or Pale Blues meaning at Motor Stage...vivid dark Blues are being fired...while lighter blues are off the brushes...Then All Greens shades are at Generator Ends...

And of course...using a PSU...Same Input as V & A...plus measuring all parameters like output, RPM's, Torque...plus listening to the smoothest drive ever...sweeet

This type of Homopolar or Unipolar Rotors...can only be achieved by taking the Asymmetries we had before...to an even more radical asymmetry... my friends...

I know it may sound weird to many...but it is the GOD Honest truth Guys.

Well...am pretty sure many of you...with your experience by now at winding...could do this little machine in very short time...trust me is worth it... but please, do not take apart the original P5...so could be compared.


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Awesome!

G'day UFO
I still have 2 Imperial P56 UFO packages all fitted together ready to wind and one is waiting for the new instructions how to wind it.

Hello Kogs,

My friend I LOVE Your attitude!!!
If there was someone I felt bad about finding this...was You, just because I know how everyone here is tight with money for this things...which are experiments...and you went beyond and spend on balancing plus sealing it/epoxying it...

That is the attitude that would definitively take Us all ...out of the way we are right now...nothing else!

[With regard to Nessie
I am waiting still for my switches 50 amps from Backwoods Solar @ Sandpoint Idaho here

Backwoods Solar - 50 Amp DC Toggle Switch Backwoods Solar

also the 2 2200uf , 100v caps from 2 X Elna LPH 2200uF 100V 105C Long Life Electrolytic Capacitor | eBay
also waiting for the indicator lights
I am at the moment fitting the brakes and then the lights

Kindest regards my friend

Kogs always waiting for something

Those are great news friend, Nessie would come out awesome!


Kind Regards



Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

G'day UFO
I still have 2 Imperial P56 UFO packages all fitted together ready to wind and one is waiting for the new instructions how to wind it.

With regard to Nessie
I am waiting still for my switches 50 amps from Backwoods Solar @ Sandpoint Idaho here

Backwoods Solar - 50 Amp DC Toggle Switch Backwoods Solar

also the 2 2200uf , 100v caps from 2 X Elna LPH 2200uF 100V 105C Long Life Electrolytic Capacitor | eBay
also waiting for the indicator lights
I am at the moment fitting the brakes and then the lights

Kindest regards my friend

Kogs always waiting for something

[Midaztouch]

@ UFO & Team

What if I tell you that this new type of winding bring Imperial Amp Draw to less than half or even more than we have right now?...while the Output would be bigger...without loosing , but optimizing all attributes related to Torque and Speed?

What if I say...that now, it will Optimize every single attribute plus adding a much smoother running?

Skeptics would say, "Stop blowing smoke up our *ss with pipe dream hopes and finished the first motor!" ... That is a quote.

People that look at the "Big Picture" would say, "There's always room for improvement." ... That's a quote also.

And I say, "Timing is everything".

Would you become "non flexible" and ask me to still get the old system to Imperial Motors?

It is up to you all guys here... that have this type of Machines and are working on them.

There is a responsibility to the team but there is a greater responsibility for the product. That line has to be walked while maintaining a positive reputation. We only live once and let's have some fun while changing and challenging the status quo.

But, remember...can not screw up again with Imperial...or we will loose them.

The people at Imperial are good people. They are willing to support us but they need solid results to justify spending company time and resources for further testing. But in the same breath, I respect UFO's creative genius. A creative designer will not put something out unless they love it. Or they must work with what they have because of time restraints.

Team, I should send an email to Imperial by Friday. What are your thoughts?

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[esesenergy]

Everything happens for a REASON.

[Ufopolitics]

Hey UFO

I'm flexible.

Hello Midaz,

Well, is good to know you are flexible...

There are many different approaches. Personally, I've gotten a positive vibe from the Imperial people. Even though there was some confusion during the first testing, they are still willing to assist. Let's just send them another motor and get it tested properly using lead acid batteries.

Midaz, like we have discussed in several mails before...it is great we have "doors open" at Imperial Motors, and I agree we can not miss our next hit...since the first attempt was "burnt" already...

I know you are flexible, plus you are also a smart guy... (get ready... )

Midaz, when I first started writing on this Forum...I already had built and experimented with several Asymmetric Motors Structures (not Imperial though, but I had build the BOSCH 20 Poles)..and... of all this Machines the one that really impressed me the most...was the simple Three Pole configuration...when I did the Radio Shack Five Pole...I was happy, however, I noticed the performance and "strange effects" that I had experienced on the 3 pole...were not there on the 5 pole little motor.

However, we kept going and building more complicated machines like Imperial.

I must recognize I was very stubborn then...and I did not listen to great experimenters here on the field of small motors like Dad Hav, now I admit He was right when he tested this Five Pole Radio Shack Motor...

However, this is an Experimental and very new Technology...and none of Us have been able to test this Heavy Machines under rigorous and radical Industrial Typical Testing Environments like Imperial Motors has.

Now going back to the 3 Pole Motor...I did not see any differences at that time related to the Radio Shack Five Pole...now I do, and the reason was to be working on the N-Machines small models, as reading a lot of literature about this machines that goes back to Faraday days...I got to "see" more about Magnetic Fields and their real properties/attributes none of Us was taught before on this fields...then I went back to our Machines...

I will be brief here by jumping to my final conclusions...I re did that Five Pole Radio Shack motor...this time applying those concepts...and making it identical in those attributes to the Three Poles...and guess what?

I wound it with same exact spec's as our typical one (wire gauge, turns etc) but a different winding...that's all...and the difference in the results were too extreme apart my friend...too much difference in "supremacy" over the older model...too much to say..."let's forget about it by now, and keep going the way we did it originally..."

At the same token I feel bad for finding this new approach...I feel bad for so many people that had gone fully in spending their money epoxying and balancing this machines, like I also did with Imperial...but, again, it was not something I knew for a long time...I just found out a few days ago.

The good news is that Structure keeps being the same as before...it is just the way to wind them...and I would be uploading a video where I compare both Asymmetric Small Machines.

I am going to get a UFO Kit to try this on a Four Brush System.

This whole thing has been an invaluable experience for me. I never thought I would be doing this. But it's interesting and fun. I don't care which way we go to get to a VTOL. We just have to get there!

I know your mind is light years ahead but... Can we please finish the Imperial motor before you start the N-Machines or at least slow down, a lot? Your moving too fast for me!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

It would be an even better experience, my friend...and I am not starting "N-Machines" here......I would be just showing my new findings on this other type of winding this rotors.

What if I tell you that this new type of winding bring Imperial Amp Draw to less than half or even more than we have right now?...while the Output would be bigger...without loosing , but optimizing all attributes related to Torque and Speed?

What if I say...that now, it will Optimize every single attribute plus adding a much smoother running?

..even testing it with a Power Supply Unit..

Would you become "non flexible" and ask me to still get the old system to Imperial Motors?

It is up to you all guys here... that have this type of Machines and are working on them.

But, remember...can not screw up again with Imperial...or we will loose them.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Midaztouch]

Hey my Friend Midaz!!

I have some discrepancy with Engineering Dept. at Imperial...They told you (after seen Diagrams, Videos, etc...) that it was the "Right Way" they have originally connected the Motor...

Sorry, but I disagree there, I have seen Dana's Motor on start up on many videos...and that Motor NEVER, skip a turn...meaning, never even "hesitated" to start running and very strong even at 12V...however, on their explanation/description on their first mail/first attempt to run it... they said they hook up everything without load on, and motor would not run/start...then increased voltage and still...it did not...till they decided to unhook it do to raising amps considerably...

Sorry friend...but the only way one of this motors would do something like that...would be under a VERY wrong connection.

But then again...We have to understand They are limited to responses due to "possible liabilities" for damaging a motor that does not belong to the corporation...even though they could have you agree or signed their "Disclaimer Forms"...still...I do not think they will be fully honest...and say..."Look Man, I believe we screwed up this motor from our first attempt..."

Anyways, related on Me traveling to Imperial Corp. anytime soon is not going to be possible my friend...

Besides...I have been working on N-Machines and ...applying those same concepts to Electrodynamics Magnetism ...I came back to Our Asymmetric Machines...applying those newly learned laws...and yes, so far they do work...meaning, there is a way to "upgrade/improve" our Machines beyond what we have so far in every aspect...at this moment am working on smaller poles designs...and only two stators.

Just trying to adapt it to Four Pole Systems...not simple.

I will be disclosing this findings pretty soon, just want to make sure before I do, testing several options.


Kind Regards Friend


Ufopolitics

Hey UFO

I'm flexible. There are many different approaches. Personally, I've gotten a positive vibe from the Imperial people. Even though there was some confusion during the first testing, they are still willing to assist. Let's just send them another motor and get it tested properly using lead acid batteries.

This whole thing has been an invaluable experience for me. I never thought I would be doing this. But it's interesting and fun. I don't care which way we go to get to a VTOL. We just have to get there!

I know your mind is light years ahead but... Can we please finish the Imperial motor before you start the N-Machines or at least slow down, a lot? Your moving too fast for me!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[lerameur]

hello,

I received a little with ago the John Stone monster circuit.
I am running a motor at 50% duty cycle with this circuit.
48v and I can see on the digital multimeter 11 amps.
The problem I am getting is that the DiodeS P6KE250 very hot and smoking after a minute...
The spec sheet says power dissipation of 5 watt . Any ideas why it is getting so hot ?
Merci,
Joel

[Ufopolitics]

What would be coming next?

Hello to All,

Just would like you Guys...to read a Post I wrote in another Thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post252571

It would help You understand the Models I will be displaying here pretty soon...


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

I don't know...

@UFO

Just got off of the phone with Imperial. They are shipping Dana's motor home next week. Joe said that the motor windings were smoking but the commutators are fine. From all of my hype, he was disappointed with the proformance from the motor. He hopes that our next motor test will be a good Dyno Test or it will be the last test from them.

UFO, your up to Bat!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Hey my Friend Midaz!!

I have some discrepancy with Engineering Dept. at Imperial...They told you (after seen Diagrams, Videos, etc...) that it was the "Right Way" they have originally connected the Motor...

Sorry, but I disagree there, I have seen Dana's Motor on start up on many videos...and that Motor NEVER, skip a turn...meaning, never even "hesitated" to start running and very strong even at 12V...however, on their explanation/description on their first mail/first attempt to run it... they said they hook up everything without load on, and motor would not run/start...then increased voltage and still...it did not...till they decided to unhook it do to raising amps considerably...

Sorry friend...but the only way one of this motors would do something like that...would be under a VERY wrong connection.

But then again...We have to understand They are limited to responses due to "possible liabilities" for damaging a motor that does not belong to the corporation...even though they could have you agree or signed their "Disclaimer Forms"...still...I do not think they will be fully honest...and say..."Look Man, I believe we screwed up this motor from our first attempt..."

Anyways, related on Me traveling to Imperial Corp. anytime soon is not going to be possible my friend...

Besides...I have been working on N-Machines and ...applying those same concepts to Electrodynamics Magnetism ...I came back to Our Asymmetric Machines...applying those newly learned laws...and yes, so far they do work...meaning, there is a way to "upgrade/improve" our Machines beyond what we have so far in every aspect...at this moment am working on smaller poles designs...and only two stators.

Just trying to adapt it to Four Pole Systems...not simple.

I will be disclosing this findings pretty soon, just want to make sure before I do, testing several options.


Kind Regards Friend


Ufopolitics

[Midaztouch]

@UFO

Just got off of the phone with Imperial. They are shipping Dana's motor home next week. Joe said that the motor windings were smoking but the commutators are fine. From all of my hype, he was disappointed with the proformance from the motor. He hopes that our next motor test will be a good Dyno Test or it will be the last test from them.

UFO, your up to Bat!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[Ufopolitics]

G'day UFO
Thanks for the time and effort in drawing this for me

D5 between Batt and Negative Cap Bank is there to prevent Battery to dump charges back to Caps...only "one way" from Cap to Batt.

Is D5 the same diodes as D1 thru D4

Kindest Regards My friend

Kogs still chomping at the bit

Hello Kogs,

Sorry I forgot about the D5 Diode question...D5 is meant to block Battery Bank from charging Cap Bank...however, it is also connected to the side coming from motor generator output, so I would say, yes, make D5 the same as D1-D4.


Regards Friend


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

G'day UFO
Thanks for the time and effort in drawing this for me
Is this the controller you have in your 0 Fuel bike

Hello my Dear Friend Kogs,

In my Xtreme Bike I bought a Brushless Kelly Controller, 8000 Watts, Bike has a 72 Volt LiPo at 60 Amps, and a Brushless Motor of 4500-5000 Watts, so nope, the controller is different (Three Cables out to Motor) than the one you need for Nessie...the one you have is the Brush Type Controller.

However, the wiring related to Contactor/solenoid and pre-charge resistor, diode at solenoid and kill switch is all from that circuit I have now on Xtreme Bike.

I have not been able to find any 48v 50 amp SPDT either toggle or rotary or rocker switches I spent a whole 3 days trying to find some
Please do you know where I can buy them?

Well friend, we are in different worlds......I got those switches at Radio Shack...but they are Single Throw, I used them for the tests on Imperial to Meccalte, and they hold up even though are rated for 12-24 V...and I took them to 48 V Tests.

SPST 12VDC/50A On/Off Toggle Switch : Toggle Switches | RadioShack.com

Search on EBAY...I found some SPDT rated at 50 Amps:

50 Amp Toggle Switch | eBay

I believe you would be able to find them...even though I tell you some I have tried from NAPA Auto Parts were rated same and did not hold on, either get stock or came loose at springs...so, it is like a Russian Roulette friend...

Do not worry about Voltage ratings...go by Amps, if 60 Amps go for it, even at 12V.

In case you can not find them... the other way would be by using Heavy Duty Relays rated at proper V&A...then connections using low rated switches to actuate relays coils...however, this is a more complicated wiring approach my friend.


My other questions are in Magenta Below

The Kill switch I have already as the Master ON OFF switch that when I put the handle in then switch it ON there is power to the controller when I switch it OFF there is NO power to the controller when I take the handle out of the switch out nothing works I put in the handle then switch on and start the machine and IF necessary I need to kill the motor I just flick it to the OFF position

Well, if you have already that mechanical switch/handle...and NOT a light duty Ignition Key Switch...then is ok

So do I need the Solenoid to a Key Switch?

A Solenoid advantage is that it does a Heavy Duty Contact, rated at High Amps, High Voltage by using a very low consuming, low amps contact through a small coil and the light duty ignition key...and by the way, I updated your circuit by exchanging Solenoid and Kill Switch places...below:

[IMG][/IMG]

Now the S7 could be eliminated if you want...since by cutting off Kill SW it disconnects Cap Bank.

On the other hand, the Pre-Charge Resistor (R1) at Solenoid, is highly recommended to avoid big dump of current at every start up from Caps/Batteries to Electronics (Controller).

I was going to have 6-12v 7.2 AH/20HR giving36v or 24v which ever is needed to keep the motor below 200watts
or possibly buy 3 of these
SSB LFP14H-BS UltraLite Lithium
I can buy them @$140:00 each

My Friend...start by using first a lower battery bank to do testing with...I would start at 24 Volts first testing ON BENCH...then on Nessie.
I would rather use a longer capacity batteries...like 20-30 Amp/Hour.

I would NOT get the 12V LiPo's by now...too expensive, plus their charging "rituals" are much more complicated in order to return power back to them...like a simple Lead Acid does it.

LiPo's can NOT get a Dump and expect to get charged "iso-facto" like a SLA Battery...You would need a specific Charger...Plus an Active BMS...and still, the ratio of charge is a much slower and complicated process.

Kindest Regards My friend

Kogs still chomping at the bit

Stay within the simple stuff first...and test run Nessie like this...you would be surprised..

Kind Regards friend


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Nessie's Progress

G'day All
Finished making the Mudguards just have to Epoxy them and paint them

The Building Of My Tricycle Slideshow by Kogs1 | Photobucket



Kogs getting there

[iankoglin]

Kogs Reply to UFO

G'day UFO
Thanks for the time and effort in drawing this for me
Is this the controller you have in your 0 Fuel bike

I have not been able to find any 48v 50 amp SPDT either toggle or rotary or rocker switches I spent a whole 3 days trying to find some
Please do you know where I can buy them?
My other questions are in Magenta Below

Hello Kogs!

Great...let's proceed...

Here is the Diagram Friend...

[IMG][/IMG]



Diodes D1, D2, D3 and D4 are preventing reverse spikes to dump on Caps from Motor, and I would use UF505/NTE576 or higher rated.

D5 between Batt and Negative Cap Bank is there to prevent Battery to dump charges back to Caps...only "one way" from Cap to Batt.
Is D5 the same diodes as D1 thru D4

A Mechanical Kill Switch will prevent from Battery drain when Nessie is completely turned off...besides the safety issues...plus also turning off S7 to disconnect caps from batteries. On Diagram switch (S7) disconnect Caps from batteries at time to store Nessie...or later on we could replace switch by a "smart" circuit that would turn off when batteries are fully charged...

The Kill switch I have already as the Master ON OFF switch that when I put the handle in then switch it ON there is power to the controller when I switch it OFF there is NO power to the controller when I take the handle out of the switch out nothing works I put in the handle then switch on and start the machine and IF necessary I need to kill the motor I just flick it to the OFF position
So do I need the Solenoid to a Key Switch?
The Cap Bank is like you have said, parallel to Batteries (understand this is NOT the Controller Cap Bank, but the Battery supply using Regen from our Asymmetric Machines Gates)...it should be rated according to your Battery Source size, always greater than, I would use -at least- a 100V Cap size bank, and I would go above the 1000 uF...say to 2200 uF or greater...could consult Sir John Stone on this to correct me if am wrong.

I was going to have 6-12v 7.2 AH/20HR giving36v or 24v which ever is needed to keep the motor below 200watts
or possibly buy 3 of these
SSB LFP14H-BS UltraLite Lithium
I can buy them @$140:00 each

The Contactor or Solenoid COIL MUST BE RATED, exactly, to the Battery Bank size, the Diode D6 must be 200V/3A and the PRE-CHARGE Resistor must be 1K Ohm and 10 Watts Minimum. This is done to avoid huge dump on Controller Cap Bank/sensitive tronics...

So...the Gears would be:

First Gear ALL Switches 1,2,3 and 4 ON...turning them on in a fast sequence while depressing accelerator slowly to make a smooth take off...and not Ramping it up too abrupt. This Gear is JUST intended to brake Inertia...and SHOULD NOT BE ON FOR A LONG TIME!

Second Gear, turn off SW4 leaving ON SW 1,2,3 (I have the same Pair sequence as Imperial here, but in your case the 16 Poles 1000W would be different, but results are the same...Four Gates)...So this would be your "passing gear".

Third Gear would be SW 1 and SW 2 ON...While SW3 and SW4 would be dumping to Cap Bank...Your Normal Cruising Gear after you have used Second to gain enough Speed Impulse.

Fourth Gear ( ONLY SW1 ON) could be used on down hills or flat straight line roads, after desired driving speed has been reached.

REMEMBER to ALWAYS DEPRESS Throttle when shifting Gears, then accelerate ONCE ENGAGED/ON...just like the "Play" between Clutch and Accelerator on a Manual/Stick Shift Vehicle...otherwise you could add damage to your commutator elements.




Kogs, remember to conduct a BENCH TEST first on this connections...or -at least- lifting Nessie's Driving Wheels OFF the GROUND (properly jacked up in stands) ...then take Nessie on a "stressful Run"...and check all temperature everywhere possible, mainly FET, and Motor Coils/Brushes.


Regards Friend, and any questions/doubts let me know.


Ufopolitics

Kindest Regards My friend

Kogs still chomping at the bit