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  • Midaztouch
    replied
    UFO

    Thank you! Got it


    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 04-20-2014, 02:01 PM.

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by Zardox View Post
    Hi Midaz
    -I am going to try and answer that in order to test my own understanding of what UFO has just presented. In the above diagram he stated that it was very important that the leading rotor bisector must not be aligned with the stator bisector. I believe if you added a fifth coil to the group you would have exactly that problem.


    Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
    Zardox

    There are a few ways to wind the groups with the 20 pole. I'm try to understand the magnetic fields. The alignment with the stator would be timing. I guess this is a case of red apples vs green apples. There are the same but different.

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz

    PS. I like green apples

    Hello Zardox and Midas,


    I have done this simple Diagram where I wrap five poles per coil in just two of the Groups...let's look at it.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    One thing I want to make clear...is that IT WILL WORK like this...with Five Poles, as this way this machine would be faster than the Four Poles Coils, just because the Throw Out Angles are bigger...or magnetic fields are wider than a four...

    What I do not like is that G2 Last Coil (4) Bisector is too close to stator S1 Center or Bisector of its Curve...and if you notice I had to turn Commutator and Poles a bit to achieve best timing...this angles we must calculate an approach under Higher RPM's.

    Consider also it will add a bit more resistance since longer horizontal wires...than the four.

    Only way to know is to try both ways...same embodiment, then evaluate results.

    However, I see this part as the Structural side of the build...while we rather concentrate on keeping analyzing the effects of acceleration under load and other ones as connections without jumpers...just using the two Inputs and collecting from two outputs...etc,etc.


    Regards


    Ufopolitics

    Leave a comment:


  • shylo
    replied
    Perfect

    Hi All, The lay-out for the 20 pole is bang on.
    The only thing is, I think the timing is off by one tooth.??
    The timing needs to advance ,...after it's up to speed. (variable)

    UFO, You are right ,....You cannot tie the grounds together.
    This was why I was getting acceleration under load. I was pulling more amps , for the added load , thus speeding up the motor,...more amps were traveling?

    They can't be tied together , but can you feed the collapse of one to the other??
    artv

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    Originally posted by Zardox View Post
    Hi Midaz
    -I am going to try and answer that in order to test my own understanding of what UFO has just presented. In the above diagram he stated that it was very important that the leading rotor bisector must not be aligned with the stator bisector. I believe if you added a fifth coil to the group you would have exactly that problem.
    Zardox

    There are a few ways to wind the groups with the 20 pole. I'm try to understand the magnetic fields. The alignment with the stator would be timing. I guess this is a case of red apples vs green apples. They are the same but different.

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz

    PS. I prefer green apples
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 04-18-2014, 12:45 AM. Reason: Spelling

    Leave a comment:


  • Zardox
    replied
    Bisectors

    Hi Midaz
    -I am going to try and answer that in order to test my own understanding of what UFO has just presented. In the above diagram he stated that it was very important that the leading rotor bisector must not be aligned with the stator bisector. I believe if you added a fifth coil to the group you would have exactly that problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    Good question Midaz,

    It is not a Mistake...I have realized the Five Pole for each coil in the Group of my previous 20 Pole Diagram will bring too close, widen too much the Rotor North Bisectors Angles...and I feel more comfortable with Four...


    Thanks


    Ufopolitics
    I know you didn't make a mistake.


    My thoughts are in the difference between amperage and voltage output. Which would give you a stronger amps output, groups of 4 or Groups of 5?

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 04-17-2014, 01:09 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Groups of Five Poles on a 20 Poles...

    Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
    UFO

    What are your thoughts on the groups of 5?


    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Good question Midaz,

    It is not a Mistake...I have realized the Five Pole for each coil in the Group of my previous 20 Pole Diagram will bring too close, widen too much the Rotor North Bisectors Angles...and I feel more comfortable with Four...


    Thanks


    Ufopolitics

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    UFO

    What are your thoughts on the groups of 5?


    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Four Stators, All North Asymmetric Analysis...

    Hello to All,

    Below is a 20 Pole, All North, Four Stator Asymmetric Machine...

    [IMG][/IMG]

    I have just displayed the Two Groups Interacting at Each Motor Brushes...So We have G1-G2 being energized by Motor-1 Brushes , as also G11-G12 at Motor-2 Brushes, apart by 180...All Four Groups are projecting North towards Stators, creating a simultaneous Repulse-Attract action.

    I have detailed G1 by showing Coil (1) on both ends, in order to realize is in charge to create the closest point of Repulsion against Stator N1...While Coil(4) is "the furthest" of the Group, towards South Stator S1...therefore creating the closest Attraction on S1.

    It is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT at this specific point, where TWO GROUPS are making Contact...that we Observe G2 (or any numbered Group which is "Ahead" or in "Progression" according to Rotation R) and MAKE SURE...the furthest Coil CENTER/BISECTOR is NOT ALIGNED with Stator Bisector (S1) while contacting Brush-Comm Element...verifying G2 DISCONNECTS BEFORE REACHING S1 CENTER....Once this is done in just one Group Coil, ALL Others will fall within same sequence.

    Finally I have shown the Two South Fields this Four Groups are generating towards center shaft...defined by two arrows areas pointing center shaft.

    Now let's look at what happens when Generating Coils comes into play...

    [IMG][/IMG]

    In the above Diagram I have Incorporated the TWO GROUPS ON EACH SIDE (G6/G7-G16/G17)that HAVE BEEN DISCONNECTED FROM INPUT, and are entering/leaving respectively, GEN-1 and GEN-2 Brushes.

    FIRST, We must realize that this Groups are "swinging Voltages" while disconnected from Source/Input, towards a REVERSED polarity that WILL FAVOR a Generation of a SOUTH FIELD projecting towards Stators "Naturally", meaning "Not Forced"...

    SECOND, We must "see" (not shown on Diagram though) the Two B FIELDS VECTORS that are there at all time between N2 to S1, and between N1 towards S2...If We then note Rotation R, those Groups are traveling towards those Two B Fields, Inducing a Current that would generate Opposite B Fields (Lenz)...then they will ALL in Generation Stage will become South projecting towards Stators...and North towards Center Shaft...This effect will "Open a Gate" for the Two Repelling South Fields coming out of Groups at Input/Motor Stage...So, a REDIRECTION/DIVERTING of SOUTH Fields will take place here...being Attracted by the Inner Norths...REINFORCING the Generated by Induction OUTER South Poles on the Green Groups...assisting Rotation, instead of opposing it.

    THIRD, We then must realize that by adding ANY Closed circuit Load at this GEN GROUPS will be closing the Coils into a Loop or strengthening their South Fields Forces...then an Acceleration Under Load will occur when we do that...no magic...just a simple "fooling" of opposed B FIELDS, plus the correct timing in Space positioning...

    RESUMING:

    1-When We disconnect a Coil/Inductor (or Collapse) we could say -not to create confusion nor arguments again- that Inductor/Coil "Becomes Less North" when it "swings" its voltage polarity at terminals.

    2-By Coils being all North, same direction, both will become South...when passing through an Exciting Field (Stators)...that Induction flow, "favors" the collapsing swinging of voltage.

    Therefore, at least two favorable occurrences here are assisting rotation, then finally closing up/looping Coils at that moment will strengthen magnetic field, South in this case.

    Finally, let's review our older method to wind...where we had a North and a South Coils in each of the Pairs...The advantages are clear...only "Half of the Pairs" (or those North) will benefit rotation under load.

    Still We have to keep making further testing on this type of Machines...and only building them We will get to find out...


    Regards to All


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 04-17-2014, 12:51 AM.

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  • warrensk
    replied
    Core

    @wantomake,

    Project sounds interesting, this motor/generator is one of the best designs out there. They can be applied to so many things. Make sure to burn the motor really well and remove the commutator before burning!!! The shaft can be hammered off...I put the core on PVC pipe so the shaft could be hit out. It didnt take tooo much effort. When It gets down in the core, I used an old screw driver to hit it the rest of the way out.

    warrensk

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  • wantomake
    replied
    Thanks

    Originally posted by warrensk View Post
    Hey wanttomake!

    I went to home depot or lowes...any hardware store... and I got a 3/8ths inch bolt thing...And by bolt thing I mean a long shaft without a head on it...so it is pretty much a long 3/8ths in shaft...I then put the motor core on that, had a bunch of 3/8in washers in between the motor core and the commutators. I think I used like 15 washers on each side...Then comes the commutators and then I used a 3/8th in nut on each end to press the whole thing together...This worked pretty well for me. Make sure you leave enough room for the wires (space between commutator and motor core) Some laminations from the core may need to be removed...

    Hope this helps, Ive made the 1016s before...I wound that motor 2 times, the 1020s are the same construction but have 20 poles instead of 16

    Warrensk
    Thanks for the reply Warrensk,

    I looked up the specs after the last post. The 1020 seems to have more space to work with on each end. My problem is the machine to press the core off in order to do what you did.

    I'm trying to build this again to use as a smaller scale of the Lockridge device project. This device is best motor/generator I've ever put a fluke meter on. Ufopolitics is big help and support with attributes out of this world.

    Again thanks. And thank you Ufo for all of this.
    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • warrensk
    replied
    Commutator....

    Hey wanttomake!

    I went to home depot or lowes...any hardware store... and I got a 3/8ths inch bolt thing...And by bolt thing I mean a long shaft without a head on it...so it is pretty much a long 3/8ths in shaft...I then put the motor core on that, had a bunch of 3/8in washers in between the motor core and the commutators. I think I used like 15 washers on each side...Then comes the commutators and then I used a 3/8th in nut on each end to press the whole thing together...This worked pretty well for me. Make sure you leave enough room for the wires (space between commutator and motor core) Some laminations from the core may need to be removed...

    Hope this helps, Ive made the 1016s before...I wound that motor 2 times, the 1020s are the same construction but have 20 poles instead of 16

    Warrensk

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  • wantomake
    replied
    My1016

    Originally posted by warrensk View Post
    Hey UFO,

    Ive got another pair of MY1020's coming...I just realized all the new concepts are for a 2 stator system...I will wait patiently to see your results with the 4 stator/4brush system...A ten pole 4 stator system can be done too. Let me know if it can be applied simply to 4 stators...


    Could I wind it just as I wound the 16 pole but with all north coils and only 10 poles?



    Or I could wind groups of coils in between where the pair would have occupied? Would the angle be alright?

    Warrensk
    Hey Warrensk,
    I've got a pair of my1016's and was wondering how you got the commutator on to the larger shaft in the front of the motor?

    Did you mill it down or what? I know the front and back shafts are different sizes.

    Or are the my1020 made different?

    Thanks,
    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    It Will...

    Originally posted by warrensk View Post
    @UFO,

    I was thinking that when I was looking at the diagram...It looks like the coils will always be opposite...at least for even numbered poles with 4 stators...The 2 stator is more like tesla's design...Let me know if you think this design will work with 4 stators...otherwise I will work on getting those magnets switched around.

    Warrensk
    Hello Warrensk,

    Yes, it will work on Four Stators, of course...We just need to make certain tests to see which way would be more successful in performance.

    I will upload it later on

    Regards


    Ufopolitics

    Leave a comment:


  • warrensk
    replied
    4 stator....?

    @UFO,

    I was thinking that when I was looking at the diagram...It looks like the coils will always be opposite...at least for even numbered poles with 4 stators...The 2 stator is more like tesla's design...Let me know if you think this design will work with 4 stators...otherwise I will work on getting those magnets switched around.

    Warrensk

    Leave a comment:

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