Use for the Tesla Switch

[Farmhand]

Concept Drawing

Here is a purely concept drawing of what I have in mind. Does anyone think it could work ?



I'm not saying I have it all worked out, but it is interesting to think about and I will be building the circuitry to experiment with it.

Not sure where to connect the solar panel though.

Cheers

[Matthew Jones]

Here is a purely concept drawing of what I have in mind. Does anyone think it could work ?

Give us walk through of whats going on with your idea. The drawing is a bit confusing. At least for me...

One thing, you have to look at with anything that employs Tesla Switch tech is the fact that you do not have to be reliant on another power source. I don't know for sure about Bit's and Johns TS but it probably doesn't need the solar panel at all. Thats just the means to get the job done quicker. Solar is only so good so you have to have a backup. You can have a bank of traditional batteries that eventually discharge or you can have a Tesla switch which will continue to deliver power for very long period of time. The configuration of it does not matter, it will either work or not work.
If I were you I would not worry about what they are doing so much. Just find it for yourself. Its there trust me, I have one running a load and charging itself out in my garage as I type. And its been there for some time now.

Lookin forward to hearing your idea.
Matt

[Farmhand]

Ok Matt, No probs, i'm glad you asked, I think I might be experiencing "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" effect. I guess I only have myself to blame. You seem to be the only one thats interested thats ok though. This is inspired by your Tesla Switch, and E.V.Gray frame's from a video. I just drew the picture. And considered some things. Now I ask if it can work.

OK so basically it could be thought of as four inverters. The top two circuits take from the 24 volts and give to the 12 volts on either opposite side for (Switch Effect), the bottom two circuits take from 12 volts and give to common ground but charge the 24 volts on the opposite side's from the recoveries to replenish their original source, this way diagonally opposite ones can be run together or all four at once, maybe. Each half left and right are fired in four phases P1, P2 ,P3 ,P4. So that the primaries are 25% duty (maximum) each, the upper and lower are both 4 phase but locked in opposing phases maybe.

The top recovery power could be used to charge external batteries or backups, when the inverters or transformer secondaries are used, the recoveries deliver any "reactive power" I think it is called back to the batteries of the next higher 12 volt potential "or above" than the source it used.

Thereby a load can be run from the secondaries in numerous ways while conserving some of the energy used to do it both above and below the source potential in the case of the upper circuits. However the power used from 12 volts to ground is still lost to me. I guess I can live without that.

Of course I have not thought about the best firing order for the 8 primary windings yet. It does get confusing. They could be fired around the ring or back and forth or even be on separate core's, that's not really important, the main thing is to get the potential from one place to another and back again while powering a load. Also some other configurations look promising aswell.

I'm almost starting to understand how to build the circuit to do what I want.
Maybe I should colour code the drawing or something, I must have drawn it wrong at least 10 time's while confusing myself.

It should be able to run itself and power a load, with AC 240v or 110v x four outlets. Or run low voltage HF lighting directly from the AC of the secondary/s (depending on the Step-up) or whatever load is desired at whatever voltage you would want to convert the output of the secondaries or the top recoveries to.

If I can offer an explanation about some part in paticular I will try.

Cheers

Of course this require's abrupt vertical switching of the coils for full effect from the recoveries. I am playing with about 2 us variable length pulse trains, by that I mean the individual pulses remain constant PW but they are in a group and the number of pulses per group can be varied as well as the PW of each pulse and the frequency of the groups of pulses.

[Farmhand]

Micro Would Be Best

I really need to teach myself how to use the micro I have so I can pulse the thing every different way from sunday just for fun. But that can wait.
I will try to design a phase locked adjustable circuit in separate module's using IC's. These should all be able to be plugged together for partial function of one or more quadrants.

The other thing is that the transformers if constructed as "Tesla Converters" should also improve the device with the switching performed accordingly.

Here's a colour coded drawing, the circuits are coloured to match the batteries they use the + power from and the coils as well. I think if I was using Tesla converters with one coil per quadrant I would fire them Blue -Red - Yellow -Green, but with two coils per quadrant it would be different, there would be one coil at top and bottom firing simultaniously but on the same side but from different current paths. Eg. "P1 Blue" could fire at the same time as "P4 Green". Or something like that.

http://wv3rsa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1psJyBxp4fBqSn_05Lei5lvwYlqbwisdFxocT4gGSwkCYYfbbOE4SMSf-GwzEanoTvWPznRelcRQRRnjn0Z3RCFcHrmhaXR9Jb/Switchback%20Oscillator%20Up-Downcolour%20coded.jpg?psid=1

Cheers

P.S. Maybe 4 ,3 , 2 or even 1 transformer core could be used 2 being optimum for producing AC power from two outlets I think, but with 1 coil per quadrant, Like two Tesla Converters, I guess then they could be called
"Complimentary Switchback Converters". I will order 2 T650-52 Iron Powder core's as soon as I can. Then I'll need to work out how to wind them. That's big job, it could take a while.

2nd Edit : Here is another embodyment, this depicts two tesla converters, Secondaries not shown, but Tesla used four secondaries which seems like it would be easier to wind that way too. This way would only require 2 phases.
The order would need experimentation.

http://wv3rsa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pDTl6Df5fGsw91TLNxq2WVCpKT49nJ2z0DMKP1fEyWwg7FHg0HRjlENUGHd4Ned1p09E6gZvB-q_EL6vRv1iCFSVFrYtM73AI/Switchback%20Converter%20colour%20codedsm.jpg?psid=1

[Matthew Jones]

I see what your trying to do. I'll have to think about before I have opinion.

It seems alot like the scalar charger except with multiples and transformers instead of capacitors.

Seems like a big project for first attempt. But thats just me.

Matt

[Farmhand]

Here's one I think I will start with, I already have almost everything I need, I will just have to modify the control circuit i have back to three phase, and get batteries.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pZjsWxlYBpFLqKZwv5pYymBWpZdVjLLuFtWbifc3yiEPy5eBjQZgv0GK5soVB21JAnxvE_SWM-RUAjthqh4Hs6A/Three%20Phase%20Switchback%20Converter-CC.jpg?psid=1

Yeah it does seem like a big project, but if it is to be done, the sooner it's started the sooner it's done. I've tried most of the different aspects of it separately. And there is something there alright. The 2 Phase one would be the best way I think. So even if this 3 phase one does not perform how I expect I won't be put off. The core's will be already ordered anyway.

Seems like the Scaler charger you think. Hmm I just looked at a Brandt Switch and I thought it looked like that, but I will have another look now. Other people's schematics look confusing to me. I'll check it out.

Cheers

[John_K]

Yes that panel is rated at 5.19 Amps at 38.5 volts. Which means it is capable of providing 8.3 amps or so at 24 volts. Would that be correct ?

No.

Yes it periodically checks the panel output and selects the best charging rate, that has nothing to do with a Tesla Switch that is a function of the promamming in the micro, I imagine.

Correct, but it squeezes every joule out of the panel for the TS part to work more efficiently

So have you tested multiple devices from one panel at the same time ?

Not sure what you mean here.

Are you able to charge all four batteries at once from a 24 volt solar panel with one device while running a 48 volt load from the same batteries ?

No, battery life will be shortenend if you try and charge and load any battery at the same time

And is is safe to run any 48 volt compatable load while pulse charge the batteries like that ?

As above

Or are you charging one battery at a time ?

Yes, as our testing showed the batteries respond better than paralleling up all 4 batteries.

Sounds like sale's talk. It is difficult to get insight into how the technology works if nobody will tell us. Does that statement mean you won't answer any more of my questions.

I'm not trying to sell you anything, just trying to answer your questions.


John K.

[Matthew Jones]

Calculations for Output

So I was going to try to tackle this in the background and not talk about it openly but what the heck we'll all hopefully need it soon.

I wanna try to figure out the output power from my version as opposed to the actual used. With constant load its easy. But...
Since I am cap dumping at the moment it gets a little harder to do.
Cap dumps aren't linear. When the system turns it on they start discharging at high rate and roll down from there.
One way to go about is to calculate the Joules in the cap at a certain voltage. But I am not sure how to actually calculate that if the cap is dumping multiple times per second. As one joule is based on one second.

The battery capacity and how much has been discharged from it is easier to accomplish but I would like to go ahead and confirm that as well.

I realize this is probably basic electrical math but I would much appreciate any ideas on how to tackle it. We have never discussed trying to standardize a routine for measurement. (IE a monopole COP measurement)

I just thought it would make interesting discussion. If you have an idea please chime in.

Matt

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

So I was going to try to tackle this in the background and not talk about it openly but what the heck we'll all hopefully need it soon.

I wanna try to figure out the output power from my version as opposed to the actual used. With constant load its easy. But...
Since I am cap dumping at the moment it gets a little harder to do.
Cap dumps aren't linear. When the system turns it on they start discharging at high rate and roll down from there.
One way to go about is to calculate the Joules in the cap at a certain voltage. But I am not sure how to actually calculate that if the cap is dumping multiple times per second. As one joule is based on one second.

The battery capacity and how much has been discharged from it is easier to accomplish but I would like to go ahead and confirm that as well.

I realize this is probably basic electrical math but I would much appreciate any ideas on how to tackle it. We have never discussed trying to standardize a routine for measurement. (IE a monopole COP measurement)

I just thought it would make interesting discussion. If you have an idea please chime in.

Matt

Watts up! No really maybe the easiest way Matt is to convert all known values to watts. This way you can see how much work is required to charge the cap and then how much work is being done from the discharge of that cap, IMO.


Jeff

[Matthew Jones]

The only problem that I can see is for instance...

Your cap dumps for 5 ms. The comparative voltage allows the caps to dump at 15 +- volt (or 2.5 volt above battery) and you get 10 amp at the beginning of the dump, but by the end you have nothing (Or maybe not). So its a curve.

How do you figure the curve? Average it?

Thats the biggest thing.

Thats how I am figuring it but is that right? I don't know what the rules would say. I just know when I am done with whatever calculation I probably got a COP of somewhere above a 1000.
I just wanna know how would the engineer go about looking at it, if they would...

The thing I am noticing in mine as the batteries get imbalanced (in voltage readings) a loss starts to occur. SO I am consuming a bit. I got a way around it but It requires more batteries. So for now I wanna know what I am pulling total for a load and compare it to what gets consumed in the TS batteries.

Cheers
Matt

[Kempis]

The only problem that I can see is for instance...

Your cap dumps for 5 ms. The comparative voltage allows the caps to dump at 15 +- volt (or 2.5 volt above battery) and you get 10 amp at the beginning of the dump, but by the end you have nothing (Or maybe not). So its a curve.

How do you figure the curve? Average it?

Thats the biggest thing.

Thats how I am figuring it but is that right? I don't know what the rules would say. I just know when I am done with whatever calculation I probably got a COP of somewhere above a 1000.
I just wanna know how would the engineer go about looking at it, if they would...

The thing I am noticing in mine as the batteries get imbalanced (in voltage readings) a loss starts to occur. SO I am consuming a bit. I got a way around it but It requires more batteries. So for now I wanna know what I am pulling total for a load and compare it to what gets consumed in the TS batteries.

Cheers
Matt

your is a difficult task because you have to take the "v" values and the "i" values of every istant, moltiply them and make the average in time. In this manner you have the real power delivered to load.
The simple way to do this is to employ a good TRUE RMS wattmeter or better a power analyzer.

Regards

[nvisser]

Hi Matt
This is my thoughts on how it works on the cap dump side.
1 Watt = 1 Joule per sec
Joules in a cap:
E = 1/2 * C* V^2
Where
E = Energy in capacitor in joules
V = Voltage in capacitor in volts
C = Capacitor capacitance in farads
So if you dump a certain value cap charged to a certain voltage 3 times a second you can calculated the watts transferred to the battery in that second.
BUT you have to remember that the cap only discharge to the battery voltage of say 12V. So we only transfer 12V and I think we have to use 12 instead of 24 in the calculation
16 000uf cap charged up to 24V , dumped 3 x a second into a 12v battery
= 16000x 10^-6 x 12 x 12 x 0.5 x 3
= 3.456W
That is 1.52 Joules pumped into the battery 3 times a second.

The input side could be a bit more difficult to calculate as some of the series voltage goes into the load and some goes to the one parallel battery and actually gets recovered.

[Matthew Jones]

But isn't Joules based on time?
1 joule = 1 watt second.

So if your cap dump 10 times a second at 1 joule per dump and the dump only lasts 1 ms then then you have to make 1000 dumps before you really have 1 joule.

Or am I just wrong all together? I just thought it was time based....

Matt

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

But isn't Joules based on time?
1 joule = 1 watt second.

So if your cap dump 10 times a second at 1 joule per dump and the dump only lasts 1 ms then then you have to make 1000 dumps before you really have 1 joule.

Or am I just wrong all together? I just thought it was time based....

Matt

It is time based, that is why just add all the watts up over a certain period, both gained and lost then you can calculate.


Jeff

[Matthew Jones]

SO watts aren't time based?