One magnet no bearing Bedini motor

[el-tigre]

*By N-N do you mean the magnets are polarized axialy from end to end,
rather then side to side as in the diametrical fashion?

Actually, the neos i am using are .25" square and 1" long. they are magnetized through the short side not axially. In my top, I have 2 stuck together in attraction and 2 on the other side of the top also stuck together in attraction, but those 2 are held in repulsion to the first 2 like this side view schematic :


(N-SN-S shaft S-NS-N)

the top also operates with the magnets configured like this:

(N-SN-S shaft N-SN-S)

Hope that helps, if not let me know & I will try to up load a pic.

[Mark]

Hi PJ

Is that your web sight you listed? If so are you using the same principle, one coil with multiple spinning rotors?

Mark

[sigzidfit]

Mark,

No sir. That is not my web site. It's just a site I saw once and was brought to memory by the discussion here.

I re-found it by googleing "leedskalnin magnetic top".

Peace
PJ

[Jbignes5]

Well yes

Yes that is what we are talking about doing with the magnets outside of the bedini motor in a chain. since the pickup coils wont affect the magnets that much it would look about the same as that setup except for the fact that a lot of pickup coil would be strewn around each magnet. Kinda of like a cell. Each magnet would have it's own set of coils generating electricity as the magnets spin and resonate with each other. Unfortunately if more then 1 magnet stops the rest would stop as well unless enough of them were chained together to make it fault tolerant to an extent. Ie (grid mode) more then one path for the magnetic flux chain for each magnet. it is proof that it is possible to extend the field to include more then one magnet and further proof that it could be tapped for more then 1 magnet coil grouping. I would think that the coils would have some influence over the efficiency but to what extent one would have to experiment with distance + 3d coil orientation.
Ie from the side 2d or from an angle 3d like a bucky ball configuration.


..................\................../..............\ /=flux
3d................/...............\................/ \=coils
2d............-I-..\.....M...../..-I-..............I=coils.....-,\ /=flux.....M=magnet

I would think the 3d would be the best configuration since only one side of the coil would affect the magnets, if they affect then at that range. But only experimentation would tell what kind of effect they have on the whole setup since a coil is driving the magents already.
Arg my ansi drawing didn't work.... It shows up on the edit screen but not in the message..... Fixed please ignore the periods in the ansi drawing.

[jonnydavro]

Hi Today i have done a test and have managed to link magnets together as a magnetic cog.The first magnet is span by the coil and the second by the first's magnetic field.The 2nd magnet is miles away from the coil and i can do it with the coil orientated in any position as long as the first magnet is spinning.You can see the interaction between the magnets as there field merge as the powered magnet visibly vibrates but this is not shown in the vid.I have taken some pics and made a vid so you can see.Regards jonny

YouTube - One magnet no bearing Bedini motor.Magnetic cog test

[el-tigre]

cogged rotors

Nice work Jonny,

This is really interesting stuff

Are the magnets spinning in the same direction or opposite rotation?

does the coil consume more power to drive both magnets in this configuration?

does the second magnet need to be elevated above the primary to spin or will it cog up when both are in the same plane?

thx

[Xenomorph]

@jonnydavro :

Very nice. Could you make an RPM reading of the first magnet before bringing in the 2nd and an amp-draw reading? Id really like to find out about the hard numbers. Theoretically i would think that the 1st magnets RPM would go down having to do work on the 2nd one or the amp draw would go slightly up. But if not, then my mind is boggled again hehe. You could really chain many magnets up.
Regards,
Xenomorph

P.S: I am just thinking maybe the 2nd magnet wasnt moved away from the coil far enough and still picked up actually the coils pulsed magnetic flux changes. You would find out when you chain like 4 of them and have the 4th one i a 1+ meter range from the coil.

[jonnydavro]

@El-tigre.Hi.The rotors will spin in either direction but i am not sure which is best yet.Regarding amp draw.I have the 1k pot set at 1k and the 10 k pot set at zero and i don't touch them so my base resistance for the test was 1100ohms.Amp draw was between 28mA and 40mA at 5.5v.I could adjust the amp draw by moving the coil closer or further away from the first magnet.I don't think the second magnet has increased amp draw.Regarding the elevated position.I tried it on the same plane and did not have much luck as i could not adjust the magnets position without them flying together and now i have 2 chipped magnets so i thought i would elevate the second one as it allows for better adjustment and there is less chance off them coming together and it worked.
@Xenomorph.I will try to take some rpm readings for you tomorrow but what i can tell you is the second magnet does slow the first magnet down as it is taking the energy it needs to spin from it.That said,i have done a quick test with my pickup coil and it will light the led from some distance on both coils so there is plenty off energy which can be recovered.This Led will light to full brightness.I have enclosed a couple of pics.The magnetic field from the coil may have some influence on the magnet as it must extend for some distance but i can say for certain it is the first magnet that is spinning the second as if it starts to wobble and is about to fall i can slide the first magnet towards it and it will straighten up and accelerate, also i started the first rotor at 90 degrees to the coil so the coil was triggering and then tried to start the second rotor in its normal position and it would not start.I did this test to remove the possibility that it was being powered by the coil.Regarding Daisy chaining more off the second magnet,i do not know if that would be possible as the disturbance when trying to start it would probably make the second magnet de cog from the first.It may be better to repeat magnets 1 and 2 at the 90 and180 degree position and if there was a triggering issue,maybe use a slave coil with the master kept seperate with just one magnet supplying the trigger pulse.
I have been thinking recently about your idea of using a 555 timer as a trigger and i think you should not give up on that idea as it would be ideal for controlling multi rotor coils or slaves,also did you order any magnets so you can try this?Hope this helps.jonny

[synchro]

Output Proportions.

Nice work! I began to think this over and realized there are two approaches, the magnetic cog approach leads to a diminishing output return, however multiplying. Placing more powerfull magnets closer to the output coil rather then further away, generates power in the power coil. A trifilar winding or four or even five seperate windings might yield greater output with more powerfull faster spinning magnets closer to the pulse coil rather then further away. Alfacentauro 1111 gets 2.5 KHZ from his rotating magnet sphere inside the air core of his Bedini coil. His secondary output is 400 volts. He dosen't state what the amperage is, but I suspect he's may be approaching overunity. The spinning magnet is energizing the pulse coil, and the power generated by the magnet is expanding as a magnetic field bubble. I don't know if the apparatus can grow more efficient then by just placing two powerfull rapidly spinning magnets at each side of the coil, and adding a third output winding inside the pulse coil, instead of building distance and coging tail dragers; However, both approaches appear to lead to advantages. One would help augment the other. The two forces working in conjunction with each other might optimize the effect. Keep up the good work. You continue to keep me stunned!

[synchro]

Vortex Harmonics.

Another thought about the near supersonic spin rate in the Alfacentauro 1111 video is that the magnet sphere appears to go through harmonic transition as it accelerates. The magnet starts to spin at one R.P.M. per pulse, then it sounds like the magnet sphere doubles its rate of spin and continues to rise in R.P.M then warps a third and maybe a fourth time as it goes from one R.P.M. per pulse to two, then three and so on. I may be mistaken about this, but if it is accelerating in this fashion, perhaps the -Vortex Storm Effect- is sucking it through these permutations. The more highly elevated coil charge reduces resistence inside the coil lower then the air drag around the magnet. This may explain why the field speed may increase past the speed of the magnet, and suck it foward, like the foward wave Dolphins can be seen surfing in front of the bow of ocean liners. The magnet may surf the creast of this kind of wave and overlap it's own spin rate. It sounds like the magnet sphere begins to switch gears, and why a close to unity result appears in amperage data supplied by Alfacentauro 1111.

[Vortex]

Another thought about the near supersonic spin rate in alphacentauro“s video is that the magnet sphere appears to go through harmonic transition as it accelerates. The magnet starts to spin at one R.P.M. per pulse, then it sounds like the magnet sphere doubles its rate of spin and continues to rise in R.P.M then warps a third and maybe a fourth time as it goes from one R.P.M. per pulse to two, then three and so on. I may be mistaken about this, but if it is accelerating in this fashion, perhaps the -Vortex Storm Effect- is sucking it through these permutations. This may explain why it sounds like it is switching gears, and why overunity results may be in evidence.

What is this "alphacentauro“s video"?
Please post a link to this video you are speaking.
I find no video related to the spelling alphacentauro.

[jonnydavro]

@ Vortex. This is the Video synchro is refering to,it is quite amazing.I would like to try something like this but as syncro says,with an added third coil winding.

YouTube - Fast Motor 150.000RPM no rotor neodimio magnet

and his proof vid of the 150000rpm

YouTube - how do you know it's spinning at 150,000RPM?

[Xenomorph]

Too bad Alphacentauro does not make amp-draw measurements.
400 Volts sounds much, but the power lies in the current besides that.
In any (of the many) pickup attempts i have made with this setup, the current is way too low. So OU considerations remain entirely speculative without numbers.

@jonnydavro: I have ordered 2 of those magnets (Budget is small atm) and now i am looking for 8mm steel balls to replicate your findings and experiment with it.

You are right then, daisy chaining might be a bad idea, but 4 sided double magnet configuration sounds like the way to go.

The 555 triggering is complicated, i dont have an oscilloscope, so i can only guess what the impulse that the magnet creates actually looks like to imitate it with the timer. All i have tried so far did not work.

[jonnydavro]

@Xenomorph.I think my ball bearings are 9mm.I have just looked on ebay and you can get 30 9mm steel ball bearings for £2.99.They are used as catapult ammo,these should work fine.

[synchro]

Sorry, I got the spelling wrong, it's Alfacentauro 1111. Have a look at his latest video.-Magnetic Motor-. He has a slave coil. He starts the magnet sphere rotor up in the air core, then when the coil energizes, he spits it into a cup where it continues to accelerate to an unimaginable speed. I posted several comments on his youtube site requesting his amperage output. I'm assuming it rose from 12v and 90 ma to 400v and amperage at this time is an unknown. He has an oscilloscope, I suspect he measured the amperage and failed to pass that information on to us to avoid causing a wave of scepticisem amongst the viewers. How easy would it be to drop that magnet ball in the middle of one of those Jewel thief toroids with the seconday wired to a bridge rectifier, and measure the D.C. output. Mabe Jonnydavro can fit one of his tubes inside his Jewel thief or Lidmoter his new magnet tube or magnet sphere. The important advance here is that Alfacentauro is running his magnet ball outside the Bedini coil on broadcast pulse, after energizing the coil by spinning it up from the inside. Eroutt demonstrated the levitating action of the coil, so the ball is probably close to weightless and rotating along the diametric pole axis. Perfect alignment for a toroid output coil.

@Alfacentauro 1111 emailed me his output data, the message reads as follows: Only charge Oscilloscope input 12v 90ma but charge output a lamp 15w, input 30v (300) ma output lamp 220v 35 ma 2500HZ.

@Alfacentauro 1111 reports on his latest -Wireless Motor Magnet Motor.- that: "Max amp in this video is 90mA 12v."

@I interpret the above as an 84% efficency rate. 9 watts in and 7.7 recovered from the secondary. Very efficent C.O.P! English appears to be Alf's second language