3 Battery Generating System

[Matthew Jones]

A 3kw generator is going to take about 4-5 hp to turn. Not to be the pessimist but you gotta slow your roll a bit.

Just make something small work then start scaling up.

You see it alot in the FE community everyone just tries to jump up to something big. Just work your way up and save your money until you know what to do.

Thats how I do things, and so far it has worked pretty good all though the financial cost of all the iterations add up the results are always better.

Matt

[Neight]

A 3kw generator is going to take about 4-5 hp to turn. Not to be the pessimist but you gotta slow your roll a bit.

Just make something small work then start scaling up.

You see it alot in the FE community everyone just tries to jump up to something big. Just work your way up and save your money until you know what to do.

Thats how I do things, and so far it has worked pretty good all though the financial cost of all the iterations add up the results are always better.

Matt

Yes, it takes a 5hp motor to drive it.
I wasn't planning on taking it apart today or anything, but it is starting to look like a possible goal for this system.
everything I have built so far has been very small scale, and only now am I seriously looking at running larger batteries and motors. I will very likely always be behind the build curve of this project, because I have a very small budget, and need to be certain of what I NEED to buy for a good replication.
I realize there will have to be some significant scaling up to drive a 5hp motor and keep a steady load on it, but I like the idea this may be possible with this system and enough batteries. Looks like 3BGS might not fit anymore

[Zardox]

I cannot access Matt's website to see the schematic. Can someone someone re-post a copy?

[citfta]

Dead battery?

Hi Patrick,

I also got some sparks when I hooked it up at first. I realized my batt wasn't as dead as I thought it was. As Matt has said the two end batteries HAVE to be dead. When I drained the batt all the way then I could hook it up ok just like Matt said. After a half hour run I lost some on my primary batts. I am waiting to see how far they recover but they seem to be bouncing right back. I think there may be two reasons I lost power from my two good batts. First off I think the two end batts have to be really dead and not able to charge. One of mine will take a small charge. The other reason I may have lost power on my primary batts is because I didn't have my loads totally balanced yet. I am still getting a feel for this new set up using an inverter and a generator connected to the scooter motor. I have a 90 volt DC motor as my generator and was powering a small 6 watt 110 volt bulb with it. I was powering a 15 watt bulb with my inverter connected to the middle bad batt. Still learning.

Carroll

[blackchisel97]

Thank you for the video Matt, much appreciated.

Vtech

[Matthew Jones]

Thats why you need 3 dead batteries so that does not happen.

The schematic is pretty simple to follow and yes there is a DEAD short but most of you are not following why?

The ripple from the motor induces a charge on the outer most plates. Those plates will send power in the primary system but never at the same time because of the ripple. So WALA!!! your recirculate some power back into your system.

If it sparks or heats up the wires the batteries are still hold a good enough charge and can probably be recovered.

Matt

[Matthew Jones]

I cannot access Matt's website to see the schematic. Can someone someone re-post a copy?

Why do you need to access my website at all, I posted the image on the forums. Copy it from here.

Matt

[Zardox]

I could not open the original post but I think it is what minoly reposted. Got it now looking for batteries. Great stuff, hope to replicate.

[Turion]

Matt,
Spent the entire frustrating day trying to replicate what you have. I had four batteries that each only showed less than a volt at rest, and tried using them as my "wings" on my bad battery. I could never get the inverter to even come on, although it comes right on when connected directly to one of my primary batteries, and works fine. So of course the voltage in the wings climbed because the inverter wasn't running at all. At rest the voltage would drop again. Here's the thing though. If you numbered the three BAD batteries on your diagram 1, 2, and three, starting with the top one, every time I put a battery in the 3rd position and turned the motor on, that battery would flip polarity. I now have THREE batteries that have flipped polarity as a result of today's test runs. And I still haven't gotten it to work. I don't know if they will HOLD that polarity flip, but it happened, and will happen again. I think I will go film it just for the heck of it. I think my bad batteries just aren't bad enough. Both outside batteries climbed to 12 and 11 volts respectively from resting at 1 or 2 volts.

Dave

[fathershand]

Melting Wire Insulation

Thats why you need 3 dead batteries so that does not happen.

The schematic is pretty simple to follow and yes there is a DEAD short but most of you are not following why?

The ripple from the motor induces a charge on the outer most plates. Those plates will send power in the primary system but never at the same time because of the ripple. So WALA!!! your recirculate some power back into your system.

If it sparks or heats up the wires the batteries are still hold a good enough charge and can probably be recovered.

Matt

Matt, when I hooked everything up per your schematic, I noticed a small spark when I hooked up the wire from the negative of bad battery 2 to the last negative of the good batteries. After it had been running for a while, the jumper cable insulation from the positive of the first bad battery to the negative of the middle good battery, it started to melt. Also, battery acid was boiling out of bad battery number one. That never happened before! I disconnected and studied the circuit again. I tried again, but this time, I didn't hook that wire up. I think my mistake was that the negative wire from the inverter goes to the negative of the last good battery. This wire does not connect to the bad battery AND the good battery. This time everything was cool. There was no overheating.

Since my inverter is pretty picky and wouldn't run as your schematic shows, I used a fan in its place. The fan would speed up and slow down all during the run. My primary batteries would remain at a certain level until I added more motor load. It would then fall to meet the added load, but would rise when the load was decreased.

It was a good run. Thanks for posting the schematic and all your hard work!
Tony

[Matthew Jones]

Matt,
Spent the entire frustrating day trying to replicate what you have. I had four batteries that each only showed less than a volt at rest, and tried using them as my "wings" on my bad battery. I could never get the inverter to even come on, although it comes right on when connected directly to one of my primary batteries, and works fine. So of course the voltage in the wings climbed because the inverter wasn't running at all. At rest the voltage would drop again. Here's the thing though. If you numbered the three BAD batteries on your diagram 1, 2, and three, starting with the top one, every time I put a battery in the 3rd position and turned the motor on, that battery would flip polarity. I now have THREE batteries that have flipped polarity as a result of today's test runs. And I still haven't gotten it to work. I don't know if they will HOLD that polarity flip, but it happened, and will happen again. I think I will go film it just for the heck of it. I think my bad batteries just aren't bad enough. Both outside batteries climbed to 12 and 11 volts respectively from resting at 1 or 2 volts.

Dave

Take the resistor off. Make sure you have 10.5 - 15 volt on batt 3 before trying to turn it on.
I used the resistor to hold down the voltage under 15 volt. But if you don't need it don't use it.

Matt

[Turion]

Matt,
Thanks. I'll give that a try this morning. Or SOMETIME this weekend.

Thinking about you pulsing that resistor across battery three and your comment that the inverter was basically doing the same thing, I kept thinking of someone here on the thread who was getting good results (I think) using a DC motor as the load on battery three, which would be doing the same thing wouldn't it? I can't help but wonder if we have a Razor scooter motor running a generator splitting the positives and a Razor scooter motor running a generator off battery three, would our loads then be balanced? And if we could tie the output of the generators into a single "demand" then as that demand increased, it would increase on both equally, or perhaps we will discover some ratio of the demand on the motor splitting the positives vs the motor tied to battery three that keeps the system in balance, and use the microprocessor to control that ratio somehow.

I guess my real question here is, would a motor in place of the inverter accomplish the same purpose, and would the mechanical output be of more benefit than what we are able to run off the inverter? I know I'm getting ahead of myself as I still don't have my setup running, and I know you might have already thought of this, but I wanted to make sure we don't overlook that possibility. It's something Luther and I discussed way back months ago when he first suggested putting a resistor across battery three and we were talking about how to balance the loads. And here we are, needing something across battery three to open and close a circuit. Whether a motor does it too quickly would be my major concern. I have a spare Razor scooter motor setting around, so once I get my system up and running, I will substitute it for the inverter and see if I get the same kind of results, assuming I get positive results in my replication in the first place!

By the way, if you watched the video I emailed you a link to, and it is correct, I could post it as a tutorial of how to connect up your circuit for those having a problem. Unless of course it is WRONG, and then obviously I am the one who is having a problem!!

Dave

[Matthew Jones]

I guess anything is possible Dave. But a DC motor on the 3rd battery won't pulse. The scooter motors don't pulse they just ripple the current.
But maybe some switching might be in order. I am going to try to get away from the motor altogether. But I have not got it all worked out yet.

I got a bigger setup going:

DavidsSetup6.AVI - YouTube

But it turned into a bust in the end, I think all the heat got me. Before I got the camera, I had gotten the inverter running and the primaries started to climb in voltage. But went up only a bit and started dropping off again.

I personally think it was heat, but I don't know. I was neat for sure.

Matt

[Turion]

Did you have a chance to look at the video? Did I have it wired correctly?

Your video is awesome. Kinda proves the point that you can increase loads on the inverter and on the motor as long as they are balanced. But balancing them is going to be the
b_ _ch. Can't wait to see what happens with bigger motors.

I always felt like this system had some potential if we could ever get it figured out. With the load you were running, you shouldn't be able to run it but for a few minutes before the batteries are DEAD! LOL. That's pretty exciting man!

Of note: At the bottom of the page there is a box that says "Current active members viewing this thread" and it lists the number of active members and their names, and how many guests are viewing. I always check that out to see who is looking at the thread and whether or not they have posted here or are just lurking. The really interesting thing is that once in a while it will say there are (example) 10 active members viewing, but only show 9 names. It always makes me wonder who that mysterious individual is who is a member, yet their name doesn't show up on the list, although they are viewing the thread???

OH, as for getting rid of the motor!!! LOL. That is what Luther has been saying for a while now! I know he is working on something, but he won't share until he has it all worked out and running. He wants to test it and make sure it works first. I swear the two of you think so much alike it's scary sometimes!

Dave

[Matthew Jones]

Ya your system was alright. I think you either had too much voltage on the dead battery or too little to start the inverter. 10. - 15 volt is the norm.

You won't see my name down in that box. I have that turned off. thats why you have 9 outa 10

Matt