Running on Potentials

[Turion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S37GGRIv_Fg&t=3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhHmD83PLCg&t=6s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnNxFkB98J4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeUYCddhV9k

[Matthew Jones]

1st clip. What your not measuring is the amp value into the buck and the amp value out of the buck on your positive output. If they are the same your buck is not working. This is most likely but I could be wrong.
2nd clip. Your dissipating the recovered power coming out of the 10 watt bulb. Recovered power has been disassociated and is no longer able to be recovered. Disassociated power will trick the meter but it is no longer common to the system ground.
3rd clip. No Comment
4th clip. Whats the Amp draw on the lightbulb at 8.5 volt. If that actually the voltage.

Conclusion: Without an amp measurement you will never know what's going on. It will always look like magic if you do not completely measure everything. That includes the load, And what's the voltage across the load. You show 8.5v in your drawing but where are you measuring? Across the load. More that likely the power converter in the LED can only change the voltage down to 3 volt+-, and that's probably Isolated via sepic converter. So what's burning in the led is not what's coming out the end (Ground side of the bulb). But that's what is causing the disassociation. That and the fact that your buck could be collapsing and sending a negative charge back to your recovery batteries (bank of 3). The only output that can be gathered from a buck converter is the leftovers of the control circuit and that is milliamps at best. If the buck where operating correctly you would be drawing power out of your small bank not putting it back the way its wired anyway. IE see Simple buck converter operation.

I think when your done you should compare running the bulb straight off the buck which should be hooked to the bank of serial and see how long you run. And film it for everyone to see. Small load big battery. Very simple.

Matt

[Turion]

Running on Potentials

80 hours constant run time at this point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeUYCddhV9k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=327A0cNFL_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Z4QshEXxc

EDIT:

I put meters on the input to the buck as well as the output from the buck. There are periods of time when the light bulb (load) is bright, and the voltage across the bulb jumps up to around 12 volts. Durning this period of time the amp reading to the boost module reads about 150 mA and the output to the load reads 500mA. Then the light will dim and the amp output to the load will drop down to the same amp reading as the amp input to the buck module, and voltage across the load will drop down to around 8 volts. It fluctuates back and forth between these two states, with long periods at both. I have it shut off right now and am going to try to replace the load with a bulb that has no electronics attached to it like the LED bulbs have. It will remove a variable, and perhaps this will help the system to remain constant. If that doesn't solve the problem, obviously I will have to find a different buck module.

It had run for 91.5 hours at the time I shut it off. Voltages across the top batteries had gone up .2 and the bottom batteries came down 1 volt.

EDIT: I got numbers wrong. Didn't have my book with me and I wanted to post this. So the numbers in BOLD are the correct numbers. You will see them in the video when I post it tomorrow. (I HOPE)

[Turion]

Bob French has built a similar setup running a motor we have worked with that we have not shared, so I blanked out the motor in his picture, but his batteries are not just holding when using the capacitor, but slowly going up while running the motor.

Bob's circuit.jpg

Super Pole Motor Undisclosed.png

My setup has been sitting since 3:00 yesterday when I realized (Thanks to Matt) that my buck might not be working. It IS WORKING, but only about half the time, so I have yet to figure out why, and have not fired it back up. I haven't charged the batteries, so I will continue right where I left off when I have time to sit down and figure it out.

EDIT: I removed the info about the system my son built. He says now he is not sure it is working like he thought it was, so until we know for sure I removed it from this page.

[Matthew Jones]

Don't thank me I think your full of sh*t. You don't measure a thing. You don't ever try to do anything right. For All I would bet your running that bulb off another source thats why you cannot include amp meters to find either your gains or loss. Just fantasy and delusion.

[bistander]

Don't thank me I think your full of sh*t. You don't measure a thing. You don't ever try to do anything right. For All I would bet your running that bulb off another source thats why you cannot include amp meters to find either your gains or loss. Just fantasy and delusion.

That's interesting.

Also noted:

...
Durning this period of time the amp reading to the boost module reads about 150 mA and the output to the load reads 500mA.
...

Boost converter output current is always less than its input current.

bi

[Matthew Jones]

Boost converter output current is always less than its input current.
bi

Its supposed to be a buck converter, that's his claim anyway

And note there is no footage of it.

[Turion]

97.5 Hours of run time.


Link showing the amps on the output of the buck (to the load) are greater than the input.

https://youtu.be/enJeV8KQZgA

Link showing the amp output from the buck compared to amp input when it "shuts down" or doesn't seem to be working. It cycles for some reason, and those cycles can be up to 20 minutes at a time. The off times are as long or longer than the ON times, and the light dims a bit when it is off and the system doesn't hold up when it isn't "working." Then it comes back on and the battery voltages of the three batteries on the left side start to go up. The two on the right go down VERY SLOWLY, but the cumulative Voltage total (Total across all five top batteries) ends up higher than the start total. If I stop and measure right after an ON cycle, it shows a gain. Even if I let it rest, like I did on Monday. If I measure right after an OFF cycle it CAN show a loss or NO GAIN at all. I often just stop the setup long enough to take readings across each of the top batteries and all the batteries in series. I need to keep the buck running.

https://youtu.be/ltv6V5CxVc8

I have to find a buck that will continually run, so I am shutting down for right now. If I find a buck that works, I will fire it back up. Letting the batteries sit until then so I can take up where I left off.

Bob's setup continues to run constantly and the batteries have gone up rather than down. He isn't using a buck, which may be why he is not having the problems I am having. His motor is only running on about 200 mA at 12 volts, so it will be a long time before he is ready to make any statements, but it is up and running and working right now.

[Matthew Jones]

That's exactly what I said the amp draw in to buck (Maybe not prefect) is the same as the output. So now look at this in reality not through the fantasy. Besides the fact that everything has changed from the beginning. You have .5 amp going to the buck at 36v and you have .5 amp coming out at 12.3 volt . DO THE MATH. 6.15 watts on the bulb. Now you have a loss at the buck. .5 amp at 12.3 volts with an input of 36v at .5 amps. 18 watts lost. BUCK COLLAPSE!!! Just like I said. Still no amp measurement on your light at 10 watts supposedly. Funny how that pans out. Maybe another source???? Who knows?? It looks bright... Gotta tall truth sooner of later.

Point being if you wanted to fix this doubt you would have done it right the first time. You above all... a hot tub owner you could just run down to harbor freight via auto or internet and bought some multimeters to use as amp meters. Holy sh*t you would have got them there the next day from Amazon. But you try this?? LOL

Try harder please. You wonder why you get nothing but criticism. And if you don't know you sure will soon.

And by the way why didn't you do all the measurements on camera that you just showed, and where is the time stamp. There is an app for that.

Your going to learn to cover your ass sooner or later, Its going to be a hell of a ride in between.

[Turion]

When the buck is actually working, as it was in the FIRST video in my last post, the amp output from the buck TO THE LOAD is greater than the amp input to the buck. That is shown in the FIRST video in my last post. Sorry if you can't see that. Everything I have stated is a fact supported by measurements. The output across the buck input is 36 volts at .45 amps (16.2 watts) and the output of the buck is .55 amps at 27 volts. (14.85 watts) The voltage ACROSS THE LOAD is 12.3v, NOT THE BUCK OUTPUT. The load is running between the buck output SET at 27 volts and one of the positives on the top battery, which is at about 13 volts. I thought you understood running on potential differences?
16.2 watts input - 14.85 watts output is a loss of 1.35 watts due to the inefficiency of the buck which cannot output 100% of the input.

But SOME of what went through the primary of the buck is recovered, and SOME of what went through the load is recovered. Apparently it is enough to keep the batteries charged and run the 10 watt load. I don't need to cover my ass. I bring this here to share it. If people choose not to believe, that's their loss, not mine.

I have ordered a couple different buck modules to try to see if I can find one that will not cycle off. I also ordered the parts to build a simple one and will see if that works.

[Matthew Jones]

I don't need to cover my ass. I bring this here to share it. If people choose not to believe, that's their loss, not mine.

It always devolves to that.

[bistander]

Deleted....

[bistander]

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