The American Ruling Class

[Bizzy]

Does that mean you would convert your retirement savings to bullets? I guess it all depends on how much (or how little) savings you have socked away. For those of us already retired, and with sizable retirement assets, it wouldn't be a very practical solution. After all, what would you do with say $100,000 worth of bullets? And where could you even amass that much ammo without that purchase or purchases being "red flagged?"

Certainly you should do whatever it takes to assure that you and your family are going to be secure against predatory attacks by those who failed to provide for their own needs, and if some of those assurances include bullets then you want to realistically have enough on hand, and maybe some extra that you could use for barter if you don't need them, but converting your entire retirement savings to bullets seems like, pardon the expression, "overkill," would you not agree?

Rick

Hi Rickoff,
I actually try to balance between the two. I figure since my wife and I both hunt, we will still use our ammo even if nothing happens. If things do start to happen we are ready. Either way we would be ready. We try to keep a certain level of ammo at our house. The amount may seem extreme to some, but may also seem not enough to others.
We are not close to retiring so we keep balanced 401k and a balanced portofolio from stocks to hard gold. The only thing i meant by my statement that "lead is more valuable than paper gold or silver" is that lead/bullets are more practical when you are trying to survive.
Bizzy

[rickoff]

Someone should start an organization to track the eligibility of every state representative and post that in an online chart. Although natural born isn't required for many positions - Governor, mayors, etc... in case they ever do try to run for president, it can ensure anyone that runs is eligible. Should be pretty simple and there are people who are passionate enough to put something like this together.

Good idea, Aaron, and it probably is being done already, even though we may not be aware of who is doing it. After all, attorney Leo Donofrio originally brought suit to seek a court order to stop the Nov. 4, 2008 Presidential election. When that was denied, he amended his complaint to stop the Electoral College from certifying Obama as the winning candidate. Leo recognized, and stated early on, that not only was Obama ineligible to be included on the ballot, but that John McCain and Roger Calero were ineligible as well. Calero, you may remember, was the Socialist Workers Party Presidential candidate on the ballot in several states, both in 2004 and 2008, but was born in Nicaragua, and to parents of that country. What's more, he wasn't even a US citizen at the time of his inclusion on the ballot, let alone a "natural born citizen!" Calero was a legal alien resident at the time, but should never have been issued a permanent resident "Green Card" in 1990, because he was convicted of a felony drug sale in 1988. Just shows how easy it is to get into the US, gain legal status, and get your name placed on a Presidential ballot in violation of the Constitution. What if Calero had been as adept as Obama at fooling the masses, gathering up a huge grassroots following, and had won the 2008 election?

I'm really glad to see that some states are now getting serious about eligibility and enacting standards of acceptable documentation. Knowing what lies ahead for him in the 2012 campaign, and getting onto the ballots, it is amazing that Obama has already announced he will run for reelection. I suppose, though, that at some point he will produce a long form birth document that looks authentic enough to pass muster. After all, there are some really good forgers out there, and perhaps Hawaii still has some of the 1961 blank certificates, and official seal on hand, that were used at that time. The typed information, using an old typewriter, would be no problem, and the forger would only need to write in the necessary signatures to match authentic signatures of those persons. How could the document (actually a certified copy of the forgery) be proven false if the forgery is placed in the Hawaii vital statistics files and said to be the original record? I really think that is exactly the scenario Obama is counting on pulling off. The fact remains, though, that while the existence of a long form certificate of a Hawaiian birth could purport to validate a claim to US citizenship, it still would not qualify Obama as a "natural born citizen," and that is the point which most people in this debate on eligibility are failing to acknowledge.

Rick

[rickoff]

The only thing I meant by my statement that "lead is more valuable than paper gold or silver" is that lead/bullets are more practical when you are trying to survive. Bizzy

That's what I figured you really meant, and just wanted to clarify it. Yes, when you can't just go to the grocery store any more, those who have the equipment and ability to hunt for food to put on the table will be in a far better position than those who do not. Is the hunting good in your area? What state are you in, Bizzy? I'm in Maine, a state that is still 90% forest land, and the fishing and hunting here is excellent, but I wonder how long that would remain true if suddenly everyone had to do that just to survive. What are your thoughts on that? To my thinking, it is a rather short term solution that might get people through a few tough months, but it will be adequate canned and dry food stocks, and a good seed bank and gardening skills, that assure survival in the longer run.

Rick

[DrStiffler]

Does that mean you would convert your retirement savings to bullets? I guess it all depends on how much (or how little) savings you have socked away. For those of us already retired, and with sizable retirement assets, it wouldn't be a very practical solution. After all, what would you do with say $100,000 worth of bullets? And where could you even amass that much ammo without that purchase or purchases being "red flagged?"

Certainly you should do whatever it takes to assure that you and your family are going to be secure against predatory attacks by those who failed to provide for their own needs, and if some of those assurances include bullets then you want to realistically have enough on hand, and maybe some extra that you could use for barter if you don't need them, but converting your entire retirement savings to bullets seems like, pardon the expression, "overkill," would you not agree?

Rick

@Rick

And where could you even amass that much ammo without that purchase or purchases being "red flagged?"

This is an interesting statement. How would you be red flagged? I was told that if you buy in bulk from say CheaperThanDirt in 500 to 1000 round quantities that one could expect a visit from BATF, although I know of a number of people that are stock piling and have far exceeded that so called door knock limit. Strange indeed, some report this in a serious way and the ones I know in Texas have had no problem. Granted they could be building a database of who has what, yet are they obtaining this info from sellers without a court order?

Anyway I also heard that (rumor as can't verify) that Wal-Mart might start asking for ID when they sell ammo. If that is true it becomes another reason to boycott them and their DHS links via their big sis broadcast monitors.

I can speak from the LE side (xLE to clarify) also and see no reason other than the feds for seeking ID from someone. See the BATF arbitrarily determines what they call an arsenal, no such law, just their policy!.

It is not uncommon in my state for vast numbers of the 3-5% of keep our constitution individuals to have in excess of 100K rounds and many of them are in LE and indeed one happens to be from one of those three letter groups.

Strange world and getting stranger every hour.

[Bizzy]

That's what I figured you really meant, and just wanted to clarify it. Yes, when you can't just go to the grocery store any more, those who have the equipment and ability to hunt for food to put on the table will be in a far better position than those who do not. Is the hunting good in your area? What state are you in, Bizzy? I'm in Maine, a state that is still 90% forest land, and the fishing and hunting here is excellent, but I wonder how long that would remain true if suddenly everyone had to do that just to survive. What are your thoughts on that? To my thinking, it is a rather short term solution that might get people through a few tough months, but it will be adequate canned and dry food stocks, and a good seed bank and gardening skills, that assure survival in the longer run.

Rick

Hi Rick
We are in Pennsylvania that land of potholes and taxes. On the state lands the hunting is terrable thanks to our antler resistriction, but on private land it is excellent. We both got our limit of deer last year. We also get plenty of rabbit and squirrel and could eat opposium if I had to although I think my wife and kids would complain. We also garden(including harvesting our own seeds), can, smoke meat, fish and make home made wine. I know my family and I would survive and I know my close freinds would be cause they are alot like me.

If everyone had to to hunt to survive?...They wouldn't ...most people would starve to death because most dont know how to provide for themselves. Which means once the stores run out and the goverment trucks are late people would either starve or loot.

Bizzy

[Bizzy]

@Rick


This is an interesting statement. How would you be red flagged? I was told that if you buy in bulk from say CheaperThanDirt in 500 to 1000 round quantities that one could expect a visit from BATF, although I know of a number of people that are stock piling and have far exceeded that so called door knock limit. Strange indeed, some report this in a serious way and the ones I know in Texas have had no problem. Granted they could be building a database of who has what, yet are they obtaining this info from sellers without a court order?

Anyway I also heard that (rumor as can't verify) that Wal-Mart might start asking for ID when they sell ammo. If that is true it becomes another reason to boycott them and their DHS links via their big sis broadcast monitors.

I can speak from the LE side (xLE to clarify) also and see no reason other than the feds for seeking ID from someone. See the BATF arbitrarily determines what they call an arsenal, no such law, just their policy!.

It is not uncommon in my state for vast numbers of the 3-5% of keep our constitution individuals to have in excess of 100K rounds and many of them are in LE and indeed one happens to be from one of those three letter groups.

Strange world and getting stranger every hour.

Hi Dr Stiffler,
I know the ATF watches me and I am certain they have a file on me. LIKE THEY DO EVERY GUN OWNER.
We buy ammo regularly, around here that is common. We even have ammo figured into our monthly budget.
My wife and kids and i take turns buying ammo to keep any notice down to a minimum. We always pay cash and never show ID unless we are asked. If you can get a young guy on a late shift at a store they rarely ask for id.
The key is not to draw attention to yourself and not to keep all of your ammo together and avoid looking like a stock pile
Bizzy

[DrStiffler]

Hi Rick
We are in Pennsylvania that land of potholes and taxes. On the state lands the hunting is terrable thanks to our antler resistriction, but on private land it is excellent. We both got our limit of deer last year. We also get plenty of rabbit and squirrel and could eat opposium if I had to although I think my wife and kids would complain. We also garden(including harvesting our own seeds), can, smoke meat, fish and make home made wine. I know my family and I would survive and I know my close freinds would be cause they are alot like me.

If everyone had to to hunt to survive?...They wouldn't ...most people would starve to death because most dont know how to provide for themselves. Which means once the stores run out and the goverment trucks are late people would either starve or loot.

Bizzy

@Bizzy
Hey I hear you as I lived in the State of Washington for almost 40 years and around that area and into Idaho, not to leave out Montana the hunting was very good. But aren't you all missing the point with the hunting bit? Only those that are in states that have open lad suitable for hunting and indeed have game could consider such an option. What about the city folks (SOL) I guess? Hey when you have restricted travel imposed they will not be able to leave town and you will have to sneak to the woods. I must disagree and consider this as an option to be just a remote option. Think about it, your out in the woods blasting away and they are looking for you to take your weapon. No! Stocked food, hunting will be a small if at all viable option.

[Bizzy]

@Bizzy
Hey I hear you as I lived in the State of Washington for almost 40 years and around that area and into Idaho, not to leave out Montana the hunting was very good. But aren't you all missing the point with the hunting bit? Only those that are in states that have open lad suitable for hunting and indeed have game could consider such an option. What about the city folks (SOL) I guess? Hey when you have restricted travel imposed they will not be able to leave town and you will have to sneak to the woods. I must disagree and consider this as an option to be just a remote option. Think about it, your out in the woods blasting away and they are looking for you to take your weapon. No! Stocked food, hunting will be a small if at all viable option.

Hi Dr Stiffler
Yes if they are in the city they are SOL. Pure and simple. That is why we live in the country. My wife and I enjoy it. We want to retire here and we can survive here. I used to live in various cities around the world and can speak three languages fluently but that life is not for me.
With the food we have now... smoked meats canned wine etc... we can actually survive for over six months. We use the food regualrly and just replenish our stock so we know it is always fresh and never wasted. There is no sence stock piling something you'll never use.

As far as them looking for me while I am hunting... Only shoot once or you can use a bow.
Besides when everything goes south there will be so much disruption and chaos they will be too busy to worry about some dumb hillbillie like me.
Bizzy

[aljhoa]

Nite Ops:

YouTube - Long Range Thermal Imaging
YouTube - Army - Insurgents Elminiated After Planting IED
YouTube - "Gunship strafing run" FULL part 2
YouTube - Anti-Nightvision camouflage

Al

[dutchdivco]

Rickoff

I agree with your overall assesment, i.e. too late for a new election, etc.On faking a birth certificate, the ? is why didn't he do this by now, or even before running? O.k., he 'thought he had it covered', and DID get away with getting elected. But, this has continued to hound him.Yes, was able to discredit the 'birthers' as a bunch of nuts, to the sheeple.But, as I say, its continued to hound him, and now Trumps getting it into mainstream media, and thats just a taste of what he's going to get during re-election.

I'm wondering if its not as easy as you say, when your under a microscope of public scrutiny.Maybe he can't produce a viable, able to pass muster copy?

On the stockpileing, 1 thing to consider.During times of scarcity, little luxuries assume value in excess of their intrinsic value. Thats what I was talking about earlier, with tobacco.Other items you can easily stockpile now, chocolate bars.Also whiskey.We've all heard what US soldiers were able to 'barter for' during WW2, with stockings and chocolate bars.Seriously, little luxuries have extra value, because they remind you of the time before scarcity.These are the things to stockpile, for bartering with later.I buy a case of chocolate bars every so often.Also whiskey, even tho I and wife don't drink, and as I said, tobacco in airtight cans. Things that are the 'spice of life'.Whiskey I don't stockpile a lot, cause people will be able to make their own.Making your own chocolate bars is more difficult. And, I believe its illegal to possess tobacco seeds, so growing your own would initially be difficult.
Anyway, just something to consider, as barter items.

On people in the cities, they'll eat cats.There are bunches of them. Koreans did, during their famine.Maybe stray dogs, as well. And then each other.Jim

[Bizzy]

Arizona

Good morning
It looks like Arizona took the first step and will now require all presidential candidates to show proof of birth and citizenship before they can be on the ballot.
I bet Obama already has a team of lawyers looking for loop holes.
Bizzy

[aljhoa]

Good morning
It looks like Arizona took the first step and will now require all presidential candidates to show proof of birth and citizenship before they can be on the ballot.
Bizzy

Yes, was able to discredit the 'birthers' as a bunch of nuts, to the sheeple.

Neither birthplace nor citizenship makes US corp.’s candidate the "natural born".

Al

[Aaron]

tobacco seeds

And, I believe its illegal to possess tobacco seeds, so growing your own would initially be difficult.

You can buy tobacco seeds all over the place online.

[dutchdivco]

Thanks, Aaron

I'll check that out. I was just repeating something I had heard, years ago, and never verified.There are some things on the I-net like that.Can't get Lugols solution, (iodine) in more than 1/4 oz., from a pharmacy. Can get 4 oz. bottles on the I-net. Can buy Rx. meds without a Rx., online, so long as they aren't 'get highs'.
So, I will look at getting some tobacco seeds, to add to my collection.Thanks. Jim

[DrStiffler]

Good morning
It looks like Arizona took the first step and will now require all presidential candidates to show proof of birth and citizenship before they can be on the ballot.
I bet Obama already has a team of lawyers looking for loop holes.
Bizzy

@Bizzy and All

Bizzy I may be all wrong and if so just ignore what I say because I am not trying to contradict or say you or anyone are wrong.

In a few posts back you say you have a six month supply of food and I assume water. What I question is from your posts about how you feel and are preparing that you with hunting and all should have far more than six months. Now here is what I mean by that statement.

Talking with people that are concerned I have been lead to understand that most of them are thinking of preparing in kind to their present life. What that means is they may now have a 4,5 or six course meal and a soda or two along with it. I about fall over when I hear this silliness. When the SHTF you will be in a good position if you have supplies to just (maintain) life and a moderate amount of energy reserve to enable responses that may be called for.

When I explain that a total daily intake may be a couple of crackers for breakfast, a few canned sausages or sardines or tuna for a lunch (if you can indeed have a lunch) followed by a small portion of say beans or rice or oat meal for the final meal of the day, I get this crazy old man talking stare from them. This is where we are, we are so complacent that the thought of ruffing it is that, just a thought. How in the world they answer can someone change a life style and live like that? When I respond that you do or die, the conversation ends as they know for sure I have lost all reality.