Magnet motor revelation

[Siggi1974]

Small Vid

Hi All,

here a small vid of my test with the attraction ramp

Best regards
Siggi

Madmack Test Attraction Ramp - YouTube

[MadMack]

First let me congratulate everyone. You have accomplished in weeks what it took me several months to do.

Unfortunately I have little time. There is a surgery for me in a couple of days and I will be out of touch afterwards, hopefully only for a week or two.

Randy,
That's about a perfect description although the tines could get closer to the stator until the very end, if desired. I think you have the acceleration part of that ramp tested to satisfaction so I would like to talk a little about that transition area between two stator nodes as I can see that most are thinking there is one ramp per stator magnet and nothing but air for many degrees between every two nodes. You and I are talking about a rotor mag transiting from an entirely attractive node to a repulsive node with attractive ramp.

Up until now everyone has been using a ramp material that has the same density (not mass) throughout it's length. It is possible to alter the density in the ramp or tines in order to reduce the induced magnetism from the stator magnet, should you desire to do that. How? By inserting thin slices of plastic, cardboard, enamel or other suitable material across the tine. This idea goes all the way back to Davis's Manual of Magnetism page 66 figure 45. Not only does it reduce the average density of a length of iron, it also increases the reluctance of that length. In addition the effect is variable simply by adjusting the ratio and thickness of nonmagnetic material to iron.
Does that sound useful?
You can test this effect with some tape, a stack of machine screw washers, paper or cardboard, and a somewhat weak magnet. Tape up a stack of washers, put the magnet at one end and use a small nail or paper clip to feel the pull along the length of the stack. Then try varying the stack density from one end to the other by inserting various thickness of material between washers. Move the magnet to different locations on the stacks too. Take a second weak magnet & test it's attraction and repulsion to stacks of various configurations. Try every variation you can imagine. Use a magnetic compass too, if you have one, while you're playing with that second magnet. Try different size washers together. I guarantee you will find this experiment interesting.


Cornboy,
The diameter of the rotor can't be determined in the beginning because the ramps and magnets and transition design that you use set the rotor diameter. I am not being vague, there is no way around this. After you have the acceleration ramps and the transition from one ramp to the next worked out then you know the exact spacing between your two stator magnets. Then the diameter can be worked out based on the number of stator ramps/magnets desired and the necessary clearance between rotor magnets and stator ramps/magnets. 12” is an arbitrary size that gives ample room for experimenting, measuring and testing with the 1/2” magnets. I had one rotor that ended up being 10.74” diameter and I can almost guarantee yours will be different.

Casting the ramps with pure iron dust sounds good but I can not verify it. I think we would all be interested in knowing for sure. I can only commit to what I know to work and that is transformer iron laminate.


Ufo,
Your videos are a great help to those who do not have your resources. Thank you for that as well as for your perseverance.
You have shown that the rotor magnets and ramps react very differently at opposite poles and increasing the rotor magnet angle has positive results with the repulsion side, but at the same time seems to have a more negative affect at the attraction side. So, is there a compromise that will allow the rotor magnet to work well at either pole?

Something to consider. Remember way back I said that you would want to try different magnet angles? Here are some combinations that no one has tested publicly.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with straight stator magnets.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with angled stator magnets.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with one angled stator magnet at a time.

With the rotor magnets in this straight configuration:
Angling the stator pole face away from the approaching rotor mag could add push after the rotor mag has passed center on the repulsion side.
Angling the stator pole face toward the approaching magnet could aid pull as the rotor mag approaches the attraction side.

Angling two adjacent stator magnets this way will alter the field between the two of them, and may alter the transition characteristics of the rotor as well.

BroMikey,
It's good that you are testing the pull and repel force as well as keeping an open mind on the magnet angles vs. rotation. I repeat now that I am no expert on magnetism, far from it. I solved this motor problem the same way I have solved every other engineering task in the last 40 years. By identifying the process, breaking that process down into separate distinct functions or tasks to be accomplished in sequence and solving those tasks one step at a time.
These are the tasks:
1. Provide a motive force or energy. This is the fields of the stator and rotor magnets.
2. Acceleration of the rotor. This is the acceleration portion of the ramps of course.
3. Decoupling the rotor magnet field from one stator field/ramp and coupling to the next stator field/ramp (in attraction) with minimal loss of momentum. This is the transition portion of the ramp(s) and the most critical step.

In order for the motor to run the following must happen, and this is written in stone.
The rotor must accelerate to or past the stator magnet position, then complete the transition to the next ramp with equal or greater rotational velocity than it entered the preceding ramp. That's it. Period. The end. Of course we want a greater velocity because equal velocity does not provide energy for work, only self rotation.

Cristian,
Keep us posted please.

It's taken hours to write this, I have to stop here. Sorry for the 'data dump', I wanted to get as much as possible written. To anyone I failed to respond to, please accept my apologies.

When I return it would be nice to see some good progress. I know you will succeed.

Best Regards to all,
Mack

[BroMikey]

Don't have gauss meter or know the math for the flux. So will do as many trys as it takes.

I think one of the calculators at K&J can be used somehow. Like the

calculator function that shows you how much metal is needed to keep

90 percent of the flux on one side of the barrier.


All I know is that I made a bunch of ramps and two of them need to be

discussed. Both of them are made using the same transformer electrical

steel and both have tines the same approximate length X width X thickness.


These two ramps were made from small amounts of electrical steel so I

wanted to use my only steel the best I could. That was what was in my

mind. Also the other thing was to make one adjustable.

The adjustment part was to make the long tines scissor in the middle so

they could be made to either follow the curve of the rotor arc plus also be

adjusted away from the arc, to see what might happen.


What I learned was that following the curve of the rotor arc uniformly

then also make the space between the tine and the arc decline

gradually.


So now lets go back to my best two ramps. The other of my best two

is cut from transformer core material also. Another important detail for

making an easy assembly of my "Y" ramps is that I use black electrical

tape to add the laminates together.

I have a call coming in so I will be back later with diagrams to finish this

entry. I'll show you some proportions.

[tachyoncatcher]

Look at this motor, nothing is impossible.

Thank you Mack for all you have given and shared. God bless your journey through, to the other side of that surgery you trouble over. May it be in his will to allow you to continue your work after the surgery with a vigor that even you Mack, didn't realize existed within you. My thoughts and prayers, along with thousands of others, are with you.

God Bless Buddy,

Randy

[BroMikey]

Thank you Mack for all you have given and shared. God bless your journey through, to the other side of that surgery you trouble over. May it be in his will to allow you to continue your work after the surgery with a vigor that even you Mack, didn't realize existed within you. My thoughts and prayers, along with thousands of others, are with you.

God Bless Buddy,

Randy

I didn't know that. I use to work in the surgery rooms and watched the

open heart process. May God be with you Mack. You are in good hands

with THE KING. You can't lose, anyway it turns out. You will be back at it

batting a 1000 before you know it. Relaxation is your victory.


"Fear not little flock"

[Cornboy 555]

All the best Mack, will be thinking of you, speedy recovery Mate.

Thanks for all you have shared.

Warm regards Cornboy.

[tachyoncatcher]

For your consideration

...
Something to consider. Remember way back I said that you would want to try different magnet angles? Here are some combinations that no one has tested publicly.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with straight stator magnets.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with angled stator magnets.
Both rotor magnets straight to the center line with one angled stator magnet at a time.

With the rotor magnets in this straight configuration:
Angling the stator pole face away from the approaching rotor mag could add push after the rotor mag has passed center on the repulsion side.
Angling the stator pole face toward the approaching magnet could aid pull as the rotor mag approaches the attraction side.

Angling two adjacent stator magnets this way will alter the field between the two of them, and may alter the transition characteristics of the rotor as well. ...

I have been working with 1/2" cube neos that Mack recommended and a setup with 3/4x2x3/8 in ceramics. My test bed is built in such a way that everything is easily adjusted. I have done most of my concept testing with the ceramics as I wanted to understand action/reaction of each configuration and the weaker magnets are easier to control.

Those of you with thinner magnets will have different results from the angles than those with cube/rectangle magnets. When angled the opposing pole on the magnets has a GREAT influence on the two magnets while they approach each other. We can leverage these forces to our advantage. In other words, the face of the magnets is not our only tool to gain bias. Mack eludes to this with the above quote.

An easy test. I'm going to guess most everyone here has used ceramics and has them laying around somewhere. Take two and hold them in your hands as if they where the stator and rotor in motion. Feel the forces at different angles, at different distances. Use the weaker magnets for this test. Compare thicker to thinner if you have them. You will see what I'm talking about.

It is easy to forget the forces all around the magnet as we focused on the faces and their comparative angle. We can use ALL the forces to our advantage if considered.

Then there is shunting. Shunting directs the magnetic flux and creates a new force ....

Mack has gave us much to think about. Much to do.

Take Care,

Randy

[wantomake]

Get well soon

Mack,
I hope and pray a speedy recovery for you. Thanks for all you give and the patience with us.

wantomake

[BroMikey]

@All of the guys

You are all a bunch of gentlemen, Thank you!!

Remember eariler I told you I will be back? With a diagram?

This shows my tests. 3 ramps, bigger and bigger.

The thin one is dynamite, the increased mass ruins everything.

The top ramp works wonders using the flux properly.

The shape is not perfect because I can not draw it any better.

[gene gene]

Mack, Thanks!!

I pray for the creator to be at your side through this.

Best regards, Gene

[BroMikey]

First let me congratulate everyone. You have accomplished in weeks what it took me several months to do.

Unfortunately I have little time. There is a surgery for me in a couple of days and I will be out of touch afterwards, hopefully only for a week or two.

BroMikey,
It's good that you are testing the pull and repel force as well as keeping an open mind on the magnet angles vs. rotation. I repeat now that I am no expert on magnetism, far from it. I solved this motor problem the same way I have solved every other engineering task in the last 40 years. By identifying the process, breaking that process down into separate distinct functions or tasks to be accomplished in sequence and solving those tasks one step at a time.
These are the tasks:
1. Provide a motive force or energy. This is the fields of the stator and rotor magnets.
2. Acceleration of the rotor. This is the acceleration portion of the ramps of course.
3. Decoupling the rotor magnet field from one stator field/ramp and coupling to the next stator field/ramp (in attraction) with minimal loss of momentum. This is the transition portion of the ramp(s) and the most critical step.

In order for the motor to run the following must happen, and this is written in stone.
The rotor must accelerate to or past the stator magnet position, then complete the transition to the next ramp with equal or greater rotational velocity than it entered the preceding ramp. That's it. Period. The end. Of course we want a greater velocity because equal velocity does not provide energy for work, only self rotation.


Best Regards to all,
Mack

I have been mad at myself for years that I couldn't figure out
a way to redirect the powerful forces coming off these Neo magnets.

You Sir have answered my prayer. I now can apply myself to learning
these motors, thanks to a starting point provided by YOU!!!

Yer my main MadScientist

Take your time and get over the hump. You are in good hands. "HIS"

You can't miss.

I have had little time to experiment but can't keep away from the this
motor. I did some tests where the tips of the tines on the attraction
side were the only thing near the stator(1/8") and this does good
but do that on the repulsion side and watched the incoming rotor
magnet go the other way.

Then I learned that the repulsion could use more mass as compared to the attraction? Maybe, we will see. Just letting you know where I am. The
density information blows a new whistle upstairs.To Kool.

Gonna cut me some milk bottle slats for makin stacks.

PS: A friend of mine had surgery on his hip and went back to work
ASAP? The week following fell off his tractor and injured himself
but not that bad. But because he was still healing from the previous
wounds, he died from the combined strain. He wouldn't rest and I told
him the week before he shouldn't be out here. He was 63.

Take care of yourself MACK.

[BroMikey]

Hey Mack

I hope all is well. Gonna drop a line 4 ya to THE KING

I just bought 20 1" long by 1/2" rectangular NEO's that are 30lbs

pull force called N42's. The poles are on the ends thank you very much.

Next I bought 12 cubes 1/2" neo's pull force 32lbs called N50's.

I have some 3/4" Acrylic and am gonna afford some brass bolts plus

a nice bearing. I don't know on the bearing yet but I have seen

some nice one's in my time.


I wanted to let you know I am in for the long haul. When I move up to

1" neo's I will have documented your motor worldwide a piece at a time.

My last few tests have shown me that if I am to accelerate the rotor

magnet on the repulsion side I will need more mass. I am tempted to

use a modified ramp that let's me take flux off the back end of the

stator. But then again we need to remember to keep the balance or

cancellation event at the same time.


All magnet mounting will be done so each one is adjustable. Now that I

know forks need to go above and below the stator magnets, I am also

making mounts to hold the stator magnets from the middle.


It may not be needed but then I won't learn nothin if,in I don't try

[BroMikey]

I sent in the private space of each one of the link by my last video, but is not interested, so i will make the public, having to comment on another forum. Who will be affected? I'm not
That is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNOhuYaU1WI

Put it back so I can copy to study. Yes I like that video.

Mack says the video is good one.

[BroMikey]

Hello Guys,

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_w8qgtCCjw&feature=youtu.be[/VIDEO]

TESTING RAMPS III

Here is a video on the whole new set up am working on now...And...Idk if you guys had noticed, but I have changed the way I had the 30º angle configuration previously by the one shown by Mack on Page 15, Post 442

And not like I had it in previews build on videos as well in all my previous CAD's



Regards to All


Ufopolitics

Hey Ufo

I have been going over this material and my last statement on your

rampIII video and it seems I did not see things very clearly at the time.

Despite my inaccurate view at the time I'll have to say that your

video is right on. For some reason I thought the magnets were backwards

but it turns out that your magnets are on the proper angle and in the right

direction. Then your ramp shapes and differences are a good example

for me to try.

Thanks for the good video's.

[BroMikey]

Hey guys

I have been hangin out havin the time of my life learning new things.

Enclosed are 3 Figures in the diagram. The first one is the very powerful

attraction side power stroke. But what of the repulsion side? Shouldn't

that be a power stroke also? UFO, let me say this to you. If we turn your

motor upside down and put the repulsion side on the top here is what

will happen. The rotor magnet ramping will not engage unless you force

the magnet past that certain break through area and then it will zoom

along. Nothing like the attraction side as far as I can see.

@ everyone.

The UFO video is a good start and shows me the repulsion side needs work

so I did some thinking and testing, hands on.

In Fig.B I have tried many configurations with repulsion ramp tines going

past the stator. I have increased the ramp mass, all of that. It doesn't

work right. It doesn't work as good as the attraction side and I want it to.

I want the repulsion ramp to pull as hard and strong as the attraction

side ramp and I wasn't ever getting that.

What I mean is I wasn;t getting the long distance attraction pull on

the repulsion side that makes for a longer more powerful run.

I want a power stroke on the repulsion side equally as strong.

Well, I got it this way. I don't know if it is right or wrong and I especially

won't know how that idea will effect the transition between cells.

I have not tried my new ramp with both ramps on yet.

I just wanted you all to see what I found.