My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Cornboy 555]

Thanks Freind

Hello Cornboy and thanks!, it is all my pleasure.

1-I have been able to see a WarP9 Armature...as so, you will in the video below...go to 10:00

Oct 21, 2012 - EVTV Green WarP 9 Motor Disassembly - YouTube

Now that armature is wounded with the single heavy gauge wire, which is the typical "new Symmetric method" brush motor styles for EV's, including Utility and small EV like Golf Carts...On video you could see the excessive heat that rotor has been exposed to...it is a heavy and serious short 100 percent of its running time...

It is NOT good for an Asymmetrical Conversion due to lack of room to wind finer wire and several turns per Groups. This cores opening between poles do not go all the way close to shaft and sometimes they just have a drum like inner space...

Also take a look at your space to add the second Commutator...no room either, shaft is not long enough...therefore outer housing also needs to be elongated...

So, honestly...trying to adapt this motor to Asymmetric...you would be better off making everything from scratch (at least all from shaft, CAD/Cut armature steel laminates pressing them on shaft then insulating them...for rotor/armature, as also the outer frame housing...and just getting the commutators and brushes housings with their boards...

Still, That is a lot of work my friend...that is why I recommend some specific motors to do this modifications...since I have gone already through all this trouble/time and $pending lot's of it...

2-It depends on the demand/request that you want from the EV. application..also room to mount it... weight to drag...want it street legal?...country roads?...racing...etc,etc
Propulsion of an EV...I have considered to build an specific machine...about the size of the Gas Engine Block (including the heads), then adding same required accessories like the power steering pump, vacuum pump (for brakes and AC operations of control gates) Air Conditioning Compressor...etc...(We will not need a water pump...no water, and no Alternator...we have a huge one... ...Add those to front end through front plate bracket mount and belt pulleys drive, and connect rear of motor shaft to Tranny Bell Housing at back...so it will be mounted and connected just like the Old Gas Engine.
Now related to Asymmetric Design...I posted recently The Magnificence of Three...and that design will "Rock and Roll" your EV...based on 36 poles or more...multiples of 3,6,9...like 72 poles or more within those combinations.
And again a cheaper deal would be the Imperial Motor I am working on...but that would move only small vehicles...like small 4 passengers utility cars...

If you look at the WarP9 spec's... it uses over 200 to 300 Volt System...and around the same amount in Amps...that requires a whole bunch of stack batteries...adding lot of weight to Vehicle...drag galore. We do not need that much power weight room from "Source" to propel our Asymmetric powered vehicles...


3- Yes, definitively...to have the required heavy power/torque we need the old steel...when working with Hot Side, my friend.

Statement Response: In order to be able to control the speed of your EV Motor precisely ...definitively you will need a bit of Electronic Circuitry work...but come on...all the Diagrams and parts are there!!...all you need is to put them together like a LEGO for a three years old...

But do not worry...we got great Electronic Engineers around here like Sir John Stone...so dont worry be


Regards


Ufopolitics

Thanks UFO, will digest what you said and get back to you, sorry but it will be with lot's more questions.

[Cornboy 555]

What can i say THANKS.

Thanks UFO, will digest what you said and get back to you, sorry but it will be with lot's more questions.

You are a patient Human UFO.

Something i'm trying to get my head around, say for simplicity we take your 3 pole design with P Magnets i can see how at turn off the north rotor becomes south and repells from south magnet thus helping rotation, but what happens if stator is wound copper around say moulded iron powder and resin cores and pulsed in paralell with rotor?.
I can make moulds to cast just about any shape including rotor arms from iron powder which leads me to another question if you would be so kind, i read in your posts that 1 ohm coils are minimum requirment, is the low ohmage for sharp pulse response or can coils be higher ohms, say around 10 ohm?
I am thinking mainly of heating with my last question as resin can only go so far.

CAD - laser cut laminations are an expensive business especially for prototype.

Finally UFO you mentioned that a three pole three stator design might be good, if so is there any chance of a diagram for that? Mainly showing rotor stator brush positioning and magnetic orientation.

I undestand i'm asking a lot, Thanks in advance UFO.

[machinealive]

scratch motors

Hello UFO and everyone,

Hope things are going well ufo.

I havn't been posting because of work, however i was finally able to get a small vid made of what I've been up to.

Cornboy 555, check out my 6" and 3" long, 4" dia 3 poles. The stator on the 6"long is bifilar 500 ft, so 1000 feet of 17 ga, each rotor coil is a single coil, 450 ft of 17 ga.

Jumbo is working good, using 555's to drive 1or 2 fets, each, like 16 fets total. Does not get hot at all.

I think i fried a channel on my scope, damn i hope not. UFO, I'm ordering a couple of the snap on pulse adaptors for marine engines, and a high current meter.

Ufo, if you have time to watch this vid, I hope you can help me with the timing issue, drain brush on motor side is sparking like crazy. could my gaps on the commutators be too wide, maybe I'll get some thicker brushes.
anyway, thats it for now.
3poles - YouTube

[tachyon]

Hi people what's the update did you get COP >1 ?

[prochiro]

Machinealive
Yes, it does look like you have been busy. Tremendous video showing your wood stators, keep it up. The sound and vibration sounds familiar to me as I had the rotor just hitting the stator once in a while. It does sound just like that but I am sure that you will track it down and eliminate as vibration like that can cause over 50% loss of RPM and all of the torque. That small 120V generator by size should net around 15 amps and if you take it apart, get all of the common shaft you can, even to the extent of cutting the cam in half for turning as you need. That will someday be one small but handy gen-head for emergence backup running off your low voltage. I like what your doing and where your at and with a hand-full of rotors, we can see where your going.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Cornboy

You are a patient Human UFO.

Something i'm trying to get my head around, say for simplicity we take your 3 pole design with P Magnets i can see how at turn off the north rotor becomes south and repells from south magnet thus helping rotation, but what happens if stator is wound copper around say moulded iron powder and resin cores and pulsed in paralell with rotor?.
I can make moulds to cast just about any shape including rotor arms from iron powder which leads me to another question if you would be so kind, i read in your posts that 1 ohm coils are minimum requirment, is the low ohmage for sharp pulse response or can coils be higher ohms, say around 10 ohm?
I am thinking mainly of heating with my last question as resin can only go so far.

CAD - laser cut laminations are an expensive business especially for prototype.

Finally UFO you mentioned that a three pole three stator design might be good, if so is there any chance of a diagram for that? Mainly showing rotor stator brush positioning and magnetic orientation.

I undestand i'm asking a lot, Thanks in advance UFO.

Hello Cornboy,

Yes I know my friend, patience is a great attribute for inventing and experimenting...

Something i'm trying to get my head around, say for simplicity we take your 3 pole design with P Magnets i can see how at turn off the north rotor becomes south and repells from south magnet thus helping rotation, but what happens if stator is wound copper around say moulded iron powder and resin cores and pulsed in paralell with rotor?.

Yes, it will work wonderful with wound field stators...you will be making a Universal Asymmetric, meaning it will work with AC or DC...
Now with DC would be better pulsing it by an Oscillator-Controller. However, it will also run on direct (linear, Non Pulsed) DC
Take a look at Machine Alive previous videos...He is doing just that with a wooden stator (not talking about the asymmetric stator, but two series connected substituting the permanent magnets)
With your molded iron powder stators would be great.

I can make moulds to cast just about any shape including rotor arms from iron powder which leads me to another question if you would be so kind, i read in your posts that 1 ohm coils are minimum requirment, is the low ohmage for sharp pulse response or can coils be higher ohms, say around 10 ohm?

Yes it would work also with over 1 ohm...ten (10)Ohms would be fine...the only thing you would have to make sure...is that the magnetic field projected by both, stators and rotors are balanced (close to equal as possible) in force.

CAD - laser cut laminations are an expensive business especially for prototype.

What I do is make my own CAD prints then send it to the Water Jet (not laser) Machine Shop...much cheaper this way. As I also supply them with the metal sheets that I buy at a big and cheap raw steel supplier (Everglades Steel)...here in Florida (Miami)...each sheet is around $80.00 and they are like 4x8 feet each.

Finally UFO you mentioned that a three pole three stator design might be good, if so is there any chance of a diagram for that? Mainly showing rotor stator brush positioning and magnetic orientation.

A 3,3,3 design (3P/3S/3B) I have not made it yet in CAD or in a Real Model...meaning it will have to be tested first, but stators would be spread around every 120 degrees from their center (bisector), and rotor would be exactly same way...as the ones we have been working with here, same winding...You will have two Outputs...one Input...Now this Motor (the three pole) works with either all three Norths...or all Three Souths constant at rotor, meaning the stators would have to be either all Norths or all Souths...then it will work only based on repulsion mode...so it most be calculated all this interactions per each degree of rotation...but it is possible.

The disposition would be similar to the Magnificence of three...but reduced to three stators. And the 36 poles rotor divide it at 12 poles each coil (3X12=36)
But for sure...if there is a Motor I want to build from scratch and I mean making it the size of a 427 Ford Cobra Big Block from 1967...will be the 6,6,6 below:

[IMG][/IMG]


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello My Friend!!

Hello UFO and everyone,

Hope things are going well ufo.

I havn't been posting because of work, however i was finally able to get a small vid made of what I've been up to.

Cornboy 555, check out my 6" and 3" long, 4" dia 3 poles. The stator on the 6"long is bifilar 500 ft, so 1000 feet of 17 ga, each rotor coil is a single coil, 450 ft of 17 ga.

Jumbo is working good, using 555's to drive 1or 2 fets, each, like 16 fets total. Does not get hot at all.

I think i fried a channel on my scope, damn i hope not. UFO, I'm ordering a couple of the snap on pulse adaptors for marine engines, and a high current meter.

Ufo, if you have time to watch this vid, I hope you can help me with the timing issue, drain brush on motor side is sparking like crazy. could my gaps on the commutators be too wide, maybe I'll get some thicker brushes.
anyway, thats it for now.
3poles - YouTube

Hello Machine!!


Great to see you back!!


But of course I found time to watch your video!!...awesome!...Great Wood Asymmetric Stators for our Free Energy Museum of Fine Arts!!...

I see your 555's work excellent as drivers for your FET's!!...excellent idea from Sir John Stone!!

Great that you've order the SnapOn DC adaptors...Now you would not be "blind" reading your real Pulsed DC Outputs...

I hope you did not fry your Scope channel my friend!!...try re-calibrating that channel as per factory instructions...as also try connecting the other Probe from the working channel...it may be just the probe that fried their electronic components inside their tip.

Ufo, if you have time to watch this vid, I hope you can help me with the timing issue, drain brush on motor side is sparking like crazy. could my gaps on the commutators be too wide, maybe I'll get some thicker brushes.

Your problem could be that the SPACE between Commutator Elements is TOO NARROW...that produces very short "Times Off" so Radiant Arcs between segments, then run all over the commutator surface, not getting outside from it(see if you notice that)...note if you have heavy copper deterioration at the commutator elements edge, it normally becomes black and looks like sandblasted...then that is your problem...You have to spread their distance a bit more apart, by filing between teeth (elements) ...I have shown that issue I had, when making the Star of David design with the 12 pole TorqMaster...


But it is great to see you are back again My Friend...Warm Regards

@ ALL: By the way, a very nice friend send me an e-mail here...letting me know that calling another Man "Dear" in the English Language...is derogatory and offensive...I did NOT Know!!!...My Bad
So I really apologize to all I have written "My Dear Friend"....since I NEVER MEANT to Insult nor offend anyone...but on the contrary...I wanted to show my RESPECT AND CARE, as also My Gratitude for your awesome work and true friendship.

In Spanish and Italian...We say it all times...Mi Querido Amigo (Spanish)...Mio Caro Amico (Italian)...without meaning any insult at all.


Again, My Apologies to You All.


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

To Aaron Murakami

Hello Aaron,

Could we , please reinstate Member Thugugly back here?

It has been quite sometime He has been on "Punishment/Banned" out of here...He understood and admitted He was wrong in his comments to other Member here...

Could you please reinstate Him?...I miss that nice guy and great experimenter!!


Appreciate your help.


Thanks and regards


Ufopolitics

[truesearch]

I support that "Thugugly" be given another chance.

truesearch

[Michelinho]

"Reinstate Thugugly"

I support that "Thugugly" be given another chance.

truesearch

He has my vote too.

[prochiro]

Mine also.
Dana

[prochiro]

UFO
You got it half right, let me explain about our English language. When one uses Dear with the word Friend,(Dear Friend), that is good here and we use this form to start all out letters. When one uses just the word Dear, it is considered feminine and endearing as to ones wife. I think that most here know what you meant and took no offense. Just thought you should know, Dear Friend.
Dana

[iankoglin]

Dear UFO and others

Hello Machine!!

@ ALL: By the way, a very nice friend send me an e-mail here...letting me know that calling another Man "Dear" in the English Language...is derogatory and offensive...I did NOT Know!!!...My Bad
So I really apologize to all I have written "My Dear Friend"....since I NEVER MEANT to Insult nor offend anyone...but on the contrary...I wanted to show my RESPECT AND CARE, as also My Gratitude for your awesome work and true friendship.

In Spanish and Italian...We say it all times...Mi Querido Amigo (Spanish)...Mio Caro Amico (Italian)...without meaning any insult at all.


Again, My Apologies to You All.


Ufopolitics

G'Day My VERY DEAR FRIEND UFO and all my other Very dear friends on this list

@ Ufo Your friend must be young or else not really understanding the English language properly. ( we are not writing Love letters here)

It is obvious to me and others that your NICE friend is not really a NICE friend but a misguided DEAR Friend as I am sure you meant he is your Dear Friend. But you do not want to offend him by calling him or her Dear
My Native language is Australian English as taught in school as England English

A nice friend is not as close as a dear friend


when I went to school I learned in English Grammar when writing a letter It is always required and proper to begin to address the person to whom you are writing to, correctly that is If you know his or her name personally then you address him or her as "Dear UFO" or "Dear Mary" etc.
If the Gender of the person is known but you are not familiar or on friendly terms with the person That is to say he or she has never said to call them by thier first name then you would address him or her as
If they are marries or unknown if they are married.
"Dear Mr Surname" if a male and "Dear Mrs Surname" if a Female

I f they are known not to be married then
"Dear Master Surname" or Dear Miss Surname"

If the gender of the person you are writing to is unknown then
You would address them "Dear Sir or Madam"

Here the word "DEAR" is importand and a proper English address
-----------------------------------------------
by GoogleOnline Word Finder
dear 1 (dîr)
adj. dear·er, dear·est
1.

2. Highly esteemed or regarded. Used in direct address, especially in salutations
----------------------------------------------------


Of course if you are very familiar with the person and consider them as your Dear friend then you say "Dear John" or "Hi Charlie" or as I and others in Aus say "G'Day Mate" if talking face to face leaving the implied "Dear" bit out because they already know that THEY ARE DEAR TO YOU .
but by letter "G'Day my Dear Friends Name" is the correct way

I myself am a bit remiss this way as I usually consider people I write to as My dear friends and say to all my friends Just call me Kogs if they want to be my friend they call me Kogs if not I still consider them as my friend
So again I am remiss I have left out the implied "Dear" please forgive me

People today are not basically friendly they do not even know thier next door neighbour's name and so do not consider address people even dear friends as Dear

@ AAron
I hope this clears things up I consider all here on this forum as Dear friends even my dear friend Thugugly

Please my Dear friend AAron let him back on this thread

So my dear friend UFO please consider all here as dear friends and if you are remiss with the word Dear we all know here that it is implied

I hope I have made things clear

Kogs still in Action and letting through some enlightment

[Cornboy 555]

Yeh i know me again.

Hello to All!

I love how we are getting there so fast in replications...

"The Season of the Witch 2012"...

@Woopy: I will post later on some graphics on how to adjust your little nice motor to start "right away"...it has to be set at proper "Timming" just like we do with the Stinking and Greasy Dirty Gas Engines...by adjusting Distributor Shaft...well, that was for old engines though...now they adjust electronically...


Oh!, I have a great present here for you all to have lots of fun with...Well "presents for some...and kind of "Head Aches" for some Classic Symmetrical Physics "Experts"...

[IMG][/IMG]

Now this Three Poles is "applicable" to all multiples of three (3), as Six(6), and Nine(9)...Right John Stone?...

I started practicing in a Traxxas R/C Model, Now, there are two Models within same "family"...and they are rated within the "Symmetrical World" as per T (Turns)..like 12T...or 9T...the less the number of "T's", the fastest this motors will run...but also the faster they will burn to crispy, while putting the Batteries and controllers at limits of "Life and Explosion"...but We have Larry's Bunker...so is Ok...

The Model of biggest shaft, so we could work fine...is the TITAN 12T550, Now we just need one of those...then get a cheaper one (same body) that we could use to take off parts from...A TRAXXAS STINGER 20T, because this one is shorter of shaft but same Commutators and Body Mounts.

The draw Back in this models is that some "Body Tweak" will have to be done that requires some craftsmanship, and that is the positioning of "Firing Angles" (Brushes Positioning). This Motors DO NOT have them like I have posted on this diagram...but, at 90 degrees plane dividing Stators in half...Not Good...so there is some filing and cutting to allow right brush placing...no big deal though.

@John Stone: Thanks for your words!...And here you have a little package to get those Motors You have showed Us...into the Asymmetrical World...They will be very Happy Motors, I assure You that!

Now if you take a closer look at this Model above...It should not run...right?...well, notice they are Two Poles "supposed" to be North (N2-N3) While N-1 is being fired...Therefore N3 should be attracted towards center of South (Red) Stator...opposing rotation...and N2 is been repelled by North Stator, ALSO "supposed" to "Counter Effect Rotation...??!!

So... it should not turn Right Lamar?...However, it DOES!...and AWESOME!!


Now, why do you think that Happens Lamar?...If "supposedly" this Coils-Inductors "never" change their polarity??!!...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

Hello UFO, have followed this thread since first post,(even printed to paper every page as is finished, have a pile of A4 on my desk about 10" thick), don't worry have planted hundreds more trees in my life so far than have used.
Just gone back a ways to discussion on 3p 2s 2b design and can't find info i need to know before starting work on prototype, please bear with me my Freind.

My limited understanding of this design is that when N1 is energised at just past mid of north pm it repells and is drawn to south pm, then at mid south pm is disconected and reverses polarity from collapsing field then repells N1 again as well as conecting to out brush to use excellent goodies.

Hopfully this far i am right?
So my first question UFO is-- this action takes place with a locked in Permanent Magnet fixed field N&S but what happens when you use a changing field wound copper stator,say like your fibreglass stator, only with iron, because it changes N&S with every pulse?

2. If using an iron rotor 3Pole would you wind a secondary on the iron or on top of the primary winding.

3.To bring the isolated secondary out would you use three separated slip rings at both ends? 3Pole.

Thanks Kind Freind.

Gotta Go take off some wheat.

[DadHav]

Thug

Aaron. I'm one of the reasons Thugugly got upset. Just the fact that he stood up for UFO the way he did makes me have a lot of respect for him. Well, the words anger management come to mind but I'm sure he has a lot of socially redeemable equities, and I'd like to see him back as well.
John Hav.