Transformer Core of Capacitor plates

[madhatter]

That's interesting about using AC. I actually pulled out a relay switch and wired it backwards so that it would self-oscillate, and pulsed DC thru the setup. Very interesting, and a little baffling, because I didn't really get decent voltage readings like I was expecting. ... Then tried pulsing a few different configurations until I was totally on to something else. I just didn't think it was worth mentioning.

I'll need to scope it to see what was happening. I know that the bifilar pancake coil will produce scalar (longitudinal) waves. I don't know about the single strand spiral pancake coil. You'll get more current out of that one, I think, and less out of the bifi because of the cancelled magnetic flux. Again, I need to scope it, because I really don't understand what was happening. If you have another identical bifi pancake coil, it should be able to pick up the energy from the first, and you can set up as many identical coils to draw power by scalar induction as needed, without losses - that's the theory I'm told, anyway. I think this is what Tesla's magnifying transmitter and wireless electricity was all about. Very a propos choice of quote....

Do you think you were pulling in electrons from the ground to get your voltage spike? (ie., via the ground off your diode bridge?) Do you think it's possible that if this is the case, the 3 plate capacitor with an AV plug to ground from Zilano's schematic in the Don Smith's Devices thread might increase your voltage? (that is, if you're looking for RE in your system).
- Just a thought.
Bob

I did make two coils and strangely the second one does pick up a 'signal' however at the maximum it's a 1,0,-1 DC flip flop only when the capacitor after the bridge is disharged by the neon bulb, otherwise zip nada nothing.

This is all with AC though, it'd be interesting to see the effects with pulsed DC.

another thing I noticed, the higher voltage comes from smaller cross section of wire as that allows for increased capacitance, or putting the setup in a bath of transformer oil. increased capacitance is key in increasing the current. This makes sense as now more charge is moving through the coil, or to look at in reverse there is more charge being directed in counter-space by the coil that gives the increased potential. I think..

[marxist]

charging via pancake

Hi madhatter @All,
I am also trying this, using a big sheet of aluminum as the neutral cap plate. I place the pancake coil on top of that, topping it off with the hot cap plate for which I use a sheet of copper.

I have the feeling, that when I attach my ground to the second AC-contact of the bridge rectifier (instead of to the negative DC contact as per madhatter's circuit diagram) the charging is faster.
Could you please verify?

I also have the feeling that my setup is sub-optimum ;-)
because my two cap plates presently are very large and overlap the pancake on all sides. I think the cap plates should be not bigger than the pancake's diameter. (But once the plates are trimmed down, it's too late to go back, so I hesitate).
Your input is appreciated.

[madhatter]

Hi madhatter @All,
I am also trying this, using a big sheet of aluminum as the neutral cap plate. I place the pancake coil on top of that, topping it off with the hot cap plate for which I use a sheet of copper.

I have the feeling, that when I attach my ground to the second AC-contact of the bridge rectifier (instead of to the negative DC contact as per madhatter's circuit diagram) the charging is faster.
Could you please verify?

I also have the feeling that my setup is sub-optimum ;-)
because my two cap plates presently are very large and overlap the pancake on all sides. I think the cap plates should be not bigger than the pancake's diameter. (But once the plates are trimmed down, it's too late to go back, so I hesitate).
Your input is appreciated.

For a flat single wire pancake coil there is a preference for one plate to be hot the other earth grounded or free space charge, I did measurements with it free space charge just to isolate it from the circuit on the coil. and the winding direction will dictate which plate works better. a coil smaller than the plate area is fine, larger is not efficient, and I haven't a clue on fringe effect.

Since you have large plates, try a bifilar pancake. more notes in a few...

[Bob Smith]

Resonance?

Two things that keep coming to me are resonance and spark gap.
Every cap (and of course, coil) will have its own frequency of self-resonance. In theory, once you've hit the resonant frequency, the circuit shouldn't require as much energy going in. This might be difficult, because you've got 2 different caps. But what if they were both the same (i.e., metal plates with coil core)?

As far as spark gap goes, I think I'm going to rig up something very simple at first, perhaps coming off the relay switch, and then into the setup, possibly thru a coil first. I have to think about it a little more and cobble something together.

@ Jake,
Bifilar or not bifilar, that is the question.
Whether it is nobler in the mind
To suffer the slings and arrows
Of outrageous electromagnetism,
Or to fry, to sleep, no more...
Heh heh, just kiddin'
- Just so you're aware, there are various ways to wind a bifi pancake coil. Here is the one I'm using:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TeslaBifilar.png
This wiki page lists 4 methods:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifilar_coil
Bob

[madhatter]

I noticed another effect, surface area of coil to plate and bilateral percentage.

For example, the coil wound on the plexi form had one side with more surface area to the plate then the other and due to this the side that had the majority of wire on it was the side that generated the most voltage. So lets call the side with the most winding area side A: and the side with just the loops and least area side B:

Side A: hot lead to plate
Side B: neutral lead to plate

voltage high

Side A: neutral lead to plate
Side B: hot lead to plate

low voltage

If there was a predominating magnetic field this would not be the case. a plexi sheet of .09375" or 3/32" thick is not going to shield a magnetic field.

I'm going to attempt to wind a pancake from .005" wire, I'm nuts I know, I just don't have any litz on hand at the moment.

[phoneboy]

@madhatter

Hi, I've read thru this thread and wondered if you are familiar with the Vladimir Utkin's paper as there are a few sections in there that are either directly related to or almost exactly what you are doing here.

I've attached a link to the paper, specific to this thread are pages 5-4 & 5-10.

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/VladimirUtkin.pdf

I have some ideas and a design related to this if interested. This concept has some far reaching implications/applications and I believe this is one component of Marks TPU. It's great to see someone finally dedicating some time to this.

[madhatter]

Hi, I've read thru this thread and wondered if you are familiar with the Vladimir Utkin's paper as there are a few sections in there that are either directly related to or almost exactly what you are doing here.

I've attached a link to the paper, specific to this thread are pages 5-4 & 5-10.

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/VladimirUtkin.pdf

I have some ideas and a design related to this if interested. This concept has some far reaching implications/applications and I believe this is one component of Marks TPU. It's great to see someone finally dedicating some time to this.

interesting, I read thru it and the parts related to here still hold on to the displacement current theory. Using Maxwell's equations and various test arrangements there is no displaced current from a circular magnetic field, in fact there is no magnetic field at all. The coil windings are directors for the charge that is moving between the plates. I have not tried a pulsed setup yet.

120 VAC, add in 10VDC to plates as well, out put increases on avg by 30volts.

It's difficult to call it a step up or down transformer as the capacitor plate voltages and current is not under any load that I can measure.

120 VAC or 48 VAC doesn't have any effect on the output. frequency does and 'base' DC voltage on the plates does as well.

[madhatter]

High Voltage and Surge current

UPDATE:

After spending more time on the calculations and noticing that the prime mover is the Psi charge as it oscillates I tried a new geometry.

I took a 12" length of .625" copper tube and another 12" length of .75" copper tube. on the .625" dia tube I wrapped a bifilar winding of .027" enamel wire for 4" of coverage. on the .75" dia tube I wrapped .010" wire bifilar as well and that covered 2".

The 0.625" tube with windings was inserted into the .75" tube, the windings on the .625" tube were covered so that there was still 6" of tube not inserted, the windings on the outer tube were on the the other end, trying to reduce any and all inductance.

applying 48vac to the tubes that are now capacitive and using only one lead from the inner tube to the rectifier bridge the out put voltage was 60vdc and 22vac. Now here is where I figure I took some risk, taking one lead from the outer windings I connected them to the inner lead. voltage jumped up to 75vdc and 36vac.

I then decided to increase the voltage on the capacitor tubes, to 120vac, in the instant I did that 4" of .010" wire vaporized explosively and stripped the enamel off 3ft of the wire. the diode also went, it's a 1n4007 1000v 1amp with 30amp surge.

I every flat capacitor arrangement I have come up with, it's never generated that kind of wattage! made me think of the flux compression generator, but instead of magnetic flux this was a compression of the Psi field.

need to tread cautiously now, I know it doesn't take much wattage to melt .010" wire but this was an explosive vaporizing, not to mention the diode went too, the one with it's cathode connected to the lead.

[jake]

UPDATE:

After spending more time on the calculations and noticing that the prime mover is the Psi charge as it oscillates I tried a new geometry.

I took a 12" length of .625" copper tube and another 12" length of .75" copper tube. on the .625" dia tube I wrapped a bifilar winding of .027" enamel wire for 4" of coverage. on the .75" dia tube I wrapped .010" wire bifilar as well and that covered 2".

The 0.625" tube with windings was inserted into the .75" tube, the windings on the .625" tube were covered so that there was still 6" of tube not inserted, the windings on the outer tube were on the the other end, trying to reduce any and all inductance.

applying 48vac to the tubes that are now capacitive and using only one lead from the inner tube to the rectifier bridge the out put voltage was 60vdc and 22vac. Now here is where I figure I took some risk, taking one lead from the outer windings I connected them to the inner lead. voltage jumped up to 75vdc and 36vac.

I then decided to increase the voltage on the capacitor tubes, to 120vac, in the instant I did that 4" of .010" wire vaporized explosively and stripped the enamel off 3ft of the wire. the diode also went, it's a 1n4007 1000v 1amp with 30amp surge.

I every flat capacitor arrangement I have come up with, it's never generated that kind of wattage! made me think of the flux compression generator, but instead of magnetic flux this was a compression of the Psi field.

need to tread cautiously now, I know it doesn't take much wattage to melt .010" wire but this was an explosive vaporizing, not to mention the diode went too, the one with it's cathode connected to the lead.

Sounds like you are having fun. Do you think it was a short that caused that?

I have a few capacitors made with copper pipe connectors that have oil soaked paper for dielectric. I think they were 60pF. What was the Capacitance of the tube setup with the coils?

[madhatter]

Sounds like you are having fun. Do you think it was a short that caused that?

I have a few capacitors made with copper pipe connectors that have oil soaked paper for dielectric. I think they were 60pF. What was the Capacitance of the tube setup with the coils?

Nothing like a surprise molecular restructure in microseconds to add in a little fun

I did think as first it was a short, but upon inspection there was no short. From what I can figure the increased voltage on the inner windings coupled to the outer windings smaller gauge and the bifilar winding created a massive resistance in the outer windings, the outer windings being of such small gauge went POP!

Now as to why there was such an increase, that's a good question.

Also the more interesting part is that the bifilar winding is non-inductive, so this is all being generated by the fluctuating flux charge.

[marxist]

correct depiction?

Hi madhatter,
thanks for the update.

1) Regarding the bi-filar windings: how were the two "files" connected?

2) The winding direction was cw (or ccw) and the same for the coils on both tubes?

3) Any ground connections used?

4) Regarding the wire lengths and wire diameters of the windings:
Were these randomly chosen? Or is there a mathematical/theoretical relationship between the wire sizes/lengths used?

edit: text adapted and wrongly drawn schematic removed.

[madhatter]

like this, should've done this first.

[marxist]

Hi madhatter,

Thanks for the schematic.

It made me remember, that I had seen something similar before. Namely charged concentric tubes, wrapped with a bifilar-canceling coil:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/P66.pdf

[broli]

My first impression was also "probably a short". what if you just omitted the bridge rectifier and put an incandescent light bulb there instead to handle the mysterious voltage and current.

[gsmsslsb]

UPDATE:

After spending more time on the calculations and noticing that the prime mover is the Psi charge as it oscillates I tried a new geometry.

I took a 12" length of .625" copper tube and another 12" length of .75" copper tube. on the .625" dia tube I wrapped a bifilar winding of .027" enamel wire for 4" of coverage. on the .75" dia tube I wrapped .010" wire bifilar as well and that covered 2".

The 0.625" tube with windings was inserted into the .75" tube, the windings on the .625" tube were covered so that there was still 6" of tube not inserted, the windings on the outer tube were on the the other end, trying to reduce any and all inductance.

applying 48vac to the tubes that are now capacitive and using only one lead from the inner tube to the rectifier bridge the out put voltage was 60vdc and 22vac. Now here is where I figure I took some risk, taking one lead from the outer windings I connected them to the inner lead. voltage jumped up to 75vdc and 36vac.

I then decided to increase the voltage on the capacitor tubes, to 120vac, in the instant I did that 4" of .010" wire vaporized explosively and stripped the enamel off 3ft of the wire. the diode also went, it's a 1n4007 1000v 1amp with 30amp surge.

I every flat capacitor arrangement I have come up with, it's never generated that kind of wattage! made me think of the flux compression generator, but instead of magnetic flux this was a compression of the Psi field.

need to tread cautiously now, I know it doesn't take much wattage to melt .010" wire but this was an explosive vaporizing, not to mention the diode went too, the one with it's cathode connected to the lead.

OK I get it but I have a couple of questions.
1) in the above is the 60vdc and 22vac is the 22vac before the rectifier and the 60vdc after the rectifier???
2)What is the spark gap in the circuit diagram between the outer pipe and the rectifier.