Water Fuel Cell video schematic

[Aaron]

setup

Hi Passion1,

The setup is the same as the schematic except that I sometimes had a diode after or before the "inductor."

The single diode was a 1N4001 I believe. I'll post vids, pics, etc.. of the
current setup being conditioning.

Aaron

Excellent efficiency!!
Could you please clarify the exact setup (including diode specifics) you have used for the 24 watts.
How does this setup differ from the schematic in the first posting of this thread?

[Aaron]

conditioning observations

Hi all,

Been conditioning my tubes for a couple days.

Started with negative on outside tubes and positive on inside tubes.

It seems that only the negative tube gets the white powder coating
at least in this short of run. I'm conditioning with 2 amps at 5 volts
for a big whopping 10 watts.

After a while, I tore down everything and let the tubes dry and the
outside tubes were very, very white looking compared to the inside
tubes. The only rust/crud I get is from an alligator clip on the positive
that was not stainless and interesting that if everything just sits for a
while (referring to few years ago) without running the cell, the flaked
off rust will coat very strongly to the stainless steel tubes.

when running, the negative tube will then repel all the rust right off of
them.

What I noticed yesterday was that when I switched positive to the
outside tubes and negative to the inside tubes, the white powder coating
was repelled off the positive tubes, went into the water and settled on
the floor of the cell.

The white powder coating seems to be obviously positive charge since it
repels from the positive tubes and the negative tubes pick up a white
powder coating.

Does anyone know if the powder coating has been analyzed to see what
it is made of?

Is this calcium ions in the tap water being plated to the negative tubes?

Does anyone know if conditioning with only distilled water will do this?

Also, people using distilled water from a store is usually not 100% distilled
and DOES have very small mineral content and is almost never truly pure
distilled unless it is considered medical grade distilled water where then it
is truly pure. Therefore if people use low grade distilled water in the cells
and find that it takes forever and ever to condition, maybe because there
isn't enough calcium in the water to do it quick enough.

I wonder if adding some liquid ionic calcium supplement to the water will
speed the process of conditioning. It has always been obvious that the
conditioning coating resists electron current for the fact that over time,
I can get higher voltage for less amps with the identical setup so the
coating is definitely a current restrictor.

[Aaron]

metal hydrides

Roger Billing pioneered some areas of hydrogen applications. Not many people seem to be familiar with his work.

Anyway, the world's safest way to store hydrogen is in a tank with various metals that the hydrogen bonds to. You can shoot an armor piercing bullet through the tank and NO explosion since the H isn't in an explosive form...it is bound to the metals. Upon slow heating of the tank, the H is released so only as much is needed can be released...so in a car, it is many times safer than a gasoline tank.

Now, is it possible that the H is being stored to some level in the metal tubes by bonding to some of the metal in the tubes?

" consisting mostly of iron, with a carbon content between 0.02% and 1.7 or 2.04% by weight (C:1000–10,8.67Fe), depending on grade. Carbon is the most cost-effective alloying material for iron, but various other alloying elements are used such as manganese and tungsten"

Manganese was one of the metals used in the metal hydride tanks...can't remember the others.

Billings has a book "World Hydrogen View" I think and has lots of info on this stuff....I also have some vids by him that I don't think I've seen online. Reversible fuel cells, etc...

Anyway, if anyone knows about hydrogen/metal bonding, maybe this is part of the process where the tubes are storing a massive amount of hydrogen atoms in the metal and I wonder if some of the oxygen is being stored as well???

Anyway, just some thoughts.

[Aaron]

conditioning process > 10watts

YouTube - Water Fuel Cell (WFC) - conditioning the tubes

[Shamus]

@Aaron,

Perhaps it would be useful to send some of that powder to a chem lab for analysis. That might point the way towards a more suitable material for the tubes than stainless steel. Also, have you measured the capacitance of one of the tube assemblies after conditioning? That would be a very useful measurement as well.

As for the hydrization theory, it seems plausible, but I'm no metallurgist/chemist so I couldn't tell you if that's correct or not.

[Aaron]

powder

hi Shamus, sending the powder in would definitely do it.

someone posted this at youtube:

"
lookatthewholething (3 weeks ago) Marked as spam
I've heard about conditioning the stainless so it doesn't turn brown in a lot of these electrolytic cells. If you use passivated stainless steel you shouldn't run into this problem. The brown is the surface iron that is in the SST. You can learn how to passivate on the internet. You shoudn't have to wait a week then. Just a thought"

Feature Article - How To Passivate Stainless Steel Parts (full article)

There is no universal agreement on the precise mechanics of how passivation works. But it is certain that a protective oxide film is present on the surface of passive stainless steel. This invisible film is considered to be extremely thin, less than 0.0000001 inch thick, which is about 1/100,000 the thickness of a human hair!
Passivation is designed to maximize the inherent corrosion resistance of stainless steel parts after machining. A clean, freshly machined, polished or pickled stainless steel part automatically acquires this oxide film from exposure to oxygen in the atmosphere. Under ideal conditions, this protective oxide film completely covers all surfaces of the part.

















so if it is on neg tube and o is positive, then maybe it is oxygen embedded on the metal?

[kenny_PPM]

if it is on neg tube and o is positive, then maybe it is oxygen embedded on the metal?

very likely

[Peter Lindemann]

Doubts on Oxide...

Aaron, Kenny, et al...

It is reasonable to suspect that the white coating is some precipitate of the electrical process. The question is, what is the material? The problem with the "oxide" idea is that stainless steel is mostly iron, and iron is not known for forming "white" oxides. FeO (standard rust) is a reddish orange color. Fe2O3 is Hematite, which is a brown color. Fe3O4 is Magntite, which is black.

Titanium, Tin, and Zinc form white oxides, but these materials are not present that we know of.

The simplest explanation might be that the precipitate is coming from the water. In steam distillers, the boilers tend to "scale up" with the minerals deposited after the water is boiled away. Much of this scale material is "whitish" and consists mainly of Calcium. By observation, we can clearly see that the precipitate is NOT forming on all surfaces, so it is also reasonable to conclude that it is being "electro-plated" to the surfaces it does appear on. It is also reasonable to assume that the dissolved minerals in the tap water will have to be left behind as the water is converted into Hydrogen and Oxygen.

This leaves us with no identified example of a similar process. By observation, we can see that the "white material" acts as a current limiter. If the material is Calcium (or the full spread of dissolved minerals) and it is coming from the tap water used in the cell, the following question arises. Will the deposition of the "white material" continue until NO CURRENT can pass through the cell anymore? If this happens, will the cell continue to make gas for free (voltage only), or stop working all together?

Only long trials and continuous "conditioning" of the tubes will answer these questions.

In any case, the appearance of the "white material" and its beneficial effect on the efficiency of the process is a fascinating discovery.

Peter

[kenny_PPM]

In any case, the appearance of the "white material" and its beneficial effect on the efficiency of the process is a fascinating discovery.

I will try to use the purest form of distilled water that I can find when I condition mine. If it is calcium as I have also heard others mention, it should not show up in the 'almost' pure distilled water.

[Bill]

Hi Bill,

I updated Kenny's diagram to include the more recent information on your construction.

Could you please confirm that this is correct.

Thanks.

Hi Opmeyer
Well it looks pretty close, except that i change the smoothing Cap from the 1600 mike to a 1300 mike and I added two more diodes to the one i had, so i am now running three 1N4007's all together. Still waiting on the watt meter, but i am making alot of gas( very comparable to Aaron's vid, but at 16 watts. I also added a oscillator to pulse the 166.3 DC at 32.48 Hz currently.
I did not want to post this info until i had a chance to verify with the watt meter. The reading is from my hand held amp (V/Ohm)meter put in line for a direct reading. No heat after 20 or so hours of continuous running. I fined though that the Oscillator needs tweaked every so often due to the changes to the water in the cell. It appears that I'm ripping some of the CR, FE out of the 316L tube(Anode), because i am seeing a orangious color Precip forming on the top of the water.

When the new meter gets here I post more. The Oscillator I already posted info on, but no CKT for it. If this is what i believe it is I'll post the Osc. CKT.

More to come
Bill

[Bill]

Aaron, Kenny, et al...

It is reasonable to suspect that the white coating is some precipitate of the electrical process. The question is, what is the material? The problem with the "oxide" idea is that stainless steel is mostly iron, and iron is not known for forming "white" oxides. FeO (standard rust) is a reddish orange color. Fe2O3 is Hematite, which is a brown color. Fe3O4 is Magntite, which is black.

Titanium, Tin, and Zinc form white oxides, but these materials are not present that we know of.

The simplest explanation might be that the precipitate is coming from the water. In steam distillers, the boilers tend to "scale up" with the minerals deposited after the water is boiled away. Much of this scale material is "whitish" and consists mainly of Calcium. By observation, we can clearly see that the precipitate is NOT forming on all surfaces, so it is also reasonable to conclude that it is being "electro-plated" to the surfaces it does appear on. It is also reasonable to assume that the dissolved minerals in the tap water will have to be left behind as the water is converted into Hydrogen and Oxygen.

This leaves us with no identified example of a similar process. By observation, we can see that the "white material" acts as a current limiter. If the material is Calcium (or the full spread of dissolved minerals) and it is coming from the tap water used in the cell, the following question arises. Will the deposition of the "white material" continue until NO CURRENT can pass through the cell anymore? If this happens, will the cell continue to make gas for free (voltage only), or stop working all together?

Only long trials and continuous "conditioning" of the tubes will answer these questions.

In any case, the appearance of the "white material" and its beneficial effect on the efficiency of the process is a fascinating discovery.

Peter

Hi Peter

There is a great possibility that the white pricip is comeing from the tap water that Arron is using i.e. Ca, Mg, etc. as a result of the electrolysis.

Just some thought's
Bill

[Aaron]

today's testing

Hi everyone,

Worked on the cell with Peter today for a bit working on some very bare basic measuring, etc... We aren't working on gas production at the moment but setting up testing protocols, etc... so at least we know what we're looking at. We did quite a bit of measuring just on the simple system and found some very interesting anomalies. More testing on this side of things before we're ready to report any specifics.

The brown gunk, which forms may be simply rust from iron leaching out of positive tube or oxidized rust from iron content in the water. But interesting how it keeps accumulating so maybe is from the positive tube.

[rrochon]

Hi, Aaron. Why are you using the 110 AC with rectifier? Is this just to condition the tubes? After they are conditioned and it is being run from a 12v battery, would you get the same amount of gas? And if I wanted to make a 7 tube generator, how would I condition it? Or would I need to condition each set of tubes individually?

Thanks,

Dick

[Aaron]

conditioning ac to bridge

Hi Dick,

With that ac and bridge, I have it turned up so only 5 volts 2 amps is hitting the cell. That is just to condition the tubes and check the different properties of conditioning. It seems there is no consensus as to the tube properties, coatings, conditioning stats, etc...

You can condition them all at the same time if all inner tubes are wired together and all outer tubes are wired together.

I don't know if the 7 tube setup is optimum..just what i have. Meyer's did demos with 9 tubes at 18" long each. Smaller diameter too I think.

[Jetijs]

Hi Aaron,
here's a great video about this white powder on the tubes.
Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark - Quantum Physics Science.

I'm sorry if the link was already posted earlier.
Jetijs