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  • powerme
    replied
    Originally posted by QMC View Post
    Can I assume that you've used a high frequency data acquisition setup, then, or a "gold leaf instrument" (I assume you're talking about some kind of electrostatic sensor)?

    More to the point, could you explain why you are confident that you are generating useful power with your device? I assume you understand that measuring a voltage (if you have in fact done so) does not by itself indicate that you are generating any usable power. Again, please be thorough in your answer. I appreciate your willingness so far to move to conversation forward, albeit slowly.
    hey QMC, I do not have such apparatus at my disposal, nor do I care for them.

    my simple observation at the time as retrived from memory was that there was a potential reading, my walmart multi-meter picked up both DC and AC, and the simple AC light probe did light up as well.

    there is no usable power in the water, my experiment was to make a combustible water fuel which was achieved.

    i do not have any more answer for your curious unquiry, any further comments will lead to pure speculations based on fancy theories of which I have no intrerest in doing.

    why don't you please replicate my simple experiment so that you can answer all of your questions with real results that only you can produce.

    Leave a comment:


  • QMC
    replied
    Originally posted by powerme View Post
    I inserted multi-meter points into the water, it reads positive voltage but will not give a constant reading as it can not accurately scan bi polarity at infrared range, multi-meter uses crystal oscillator to compute calculation, you need precision meters designed for high frequency reading. It is much relaible to use gold leaf instrument.
    Can I assume that you've used a high frequency data acquisition setup, then, or a "gold leaf instrument" (I assume you're talking about some kind of electrostatic sensor)?

    More to the point, could you explain why you are confident that you are generating useful power with your device? I assume you understand that measuring a voltage (if you have in fact done so) does not by itself indicate that you are generating any usable power. Again, please be thorough in your answer. I appreciate your willingness so far to move to conversation forward, albeit slowly.

    Leave a comment:


  • RAD-HHO
    replied
    Tick-Tock

    Anxious to get started growing some crystals. Waiting on zinc oxide to get here from Florida. It shipped yesterday. My fogger will be a couple weeks. Coming from China. May have to go to the local pet store to get one.

    Powerme:
    What you have explained is very simple and staight forward to me. I appreciate your sharing with us. Do you have any pix of your setup you can share?

    Leave a comment:


  • powerme
    replied
    Originally posted by ewizard View Post
    I was unaware of anything like those but my guess is they are marked way up in price due to the kind of market being targeted. I seriously doubt they are any more efficient than the ultrasonic foggers seen on ebay and other places mentioned in this thread. For much less than the price of most of those you can get a pond fogger that will probably generate enough to run a small car engine. I don't believe jewelry cleaners actually create a fog since they are intended to keep the solution in and vibrate it in a way to clean jewelry. I think your best bet is what has been shown here already. The single foggers like you would use in a small indoor fountain can be found on ebay for only about $4.50 including the shipping. I'm just wondering if a dozen of those running from a single power supply (less than $60) wouldn't make just as much mist and be cheaper than buying the 10 or 12 disk ones that seem to run more around $150 to $200 or so.
    you do not need to buy large expensive unit, but it is best to buy 1 cheap fogger to experiment with.

    a simple piezo transduces clipped with dc - and + anywhere on the conductive housing will begin to vibrate, all you need to do is water proof the piezo conductive (stainless steel plate) are and only expose the piezo ceramic face, immerse in water and you have ultrasonic atomization of water.

    i do not want to give you my own design as you are very capable of creating your own, but I will tell you the errors I have found to speed up the process.

    please, lets progress as we are standing still in development.

    FRC, please stop trolling witth the same issues and concentrate your efforts on this project, if not then conduct other research.

    Leave a comment:


  • powerme
    replied
    Originally posted by QMC View Post
    Okay, this explanation is vague, so I'd like to clarify: You placed the two leads of a commercial (presumably battery-operated) AC voltage sensor into the water, and it lit up, indicating an AC voltage between the two points in the water. Is this correct? Please attempt a thorough explanation because so far it's not clear at all, but it's getting clearer with each post.



    I had thought you used a multimeter because that's what you said you used in your earlier post. Why you would think that a multimeter provides less reliable data than a commercial "hot circuit tester" I don't know, but as you said you're unwilling to explain. And again, I'm just assuming that by "light probe" this is in fact what you meant, an AC voltage sensor intended to test whether a household circuit is energized or not; something like the following, but with two test leads (since you referred to placing the leads into the water):

    Voltage Tester

    Am I correct that this is what you mean by "light probe?"
    I inserted multi-meter points into the water, it reads positive voltage but will not give a constant reading as it can not accurately scan bi polarity at infrared range, multi-meter uses crystal oscillator to compute calculation, you need precision meters designed for high frequency reading. It is much relaible to use gold leaf instrument.

    it is hard for most to comprehend the process as your knowlede is different. you are capable of manifesting a WHOLE lot more but you must abandon what you use, your tool of mental processing is false.

    digital meters measures restrictions of electron flow. electricity is a retarded and densed transformed wave, polarized into negative and positive. with crystals, both polarities are produced in an oscillation motion, it is seperated by the qualities of the element employed.

    certain elements will be charges positive where as others are negative. the books I mentioned in my first post will explain the true nature of electicity.

    Leave a comment:


  • ewizard
    replied
    Originally posted by FRC View Post
    What about vaporzers used for pot (smoking without the smoke). They are
    expensive, but would they maybe be more efficient.

    Vaporizers - Volcano Vaporizer - Herbal Vaporizers | Vaporizers.net

    Or another device ultrasonic jewelery cleaner. Any comments ?

    FRC
    I was unaware of anything like those but my guess is they are marked way up in price due to the kind of market being targeted. I seriously doubt they are any more efficient than the ultrasonic foggers seen on ebay and other places mentioned in this thread. For much less than the price of most of those you can get a pond fogger that will probably generate enough to run a small car engine. I don't believe jewelry cleaners actually create a fog since they are intended to keep the solution in and vibrate it in a way to clean jewelry. I think your best bet is what has been shown here already. The single foggers like you would use in a small indoor fountain can be found on ebay for only about $4.50 including the shipping. I'm just wondering if a dozen of those running from a single power supply (less than $60) wouldn't make just as much mist and be cheaper than buying the 10 or 12 disk ones that seem to run more around $150 to $200 or so.

    Leave a comment:


  • QMC
    replied
    Originally posted by powerme View Post
    I did a reading on my first 1 piezo cell, there was voltage, no current. immerse both points in the water, reading is not stable. it will light up those light probe.
    Okay, this explanation is vague, so I'd like to clarify: You placed the two leads of a commercial (presumably battery-operated) AC voltage sensor into the water, and it lit up, indicating an AC voltage between the two points in the water. Is this correct? Please attempt a thorough explanation because so far it's not clear at all, but it's getting clearer with each post.

    Originally posted by powerme View Post
    i do not really care for multi-meter reading as they are false, don't have time to explain.
    I had thought you used a multimeter because that's what you said you used in your earlier post. Why you would think that a multimeter provides less reliable data than a commercial "hot circuit tester" I don't know, but as you said you're unwilling to explain. And again, I'm just assuming that by "light probe" this is in fact what you meant, an AC voltage sensor intended to test whether a household circuit is energized or not; something like the following, but with two test leads (since you referred to placing the leads into the water):

    Voltage Tester

    Am I correct that this is what you mean by "light probe?"

    Leave a comment:


  • bugler
    replied
    Originally posted by powerme View Post
    the ultrasonnic fogger is the easiest way to go but not as effecient as custom build unit, if you buy a small piezo transducer, you can power it with pulse dc and it will work.

    i recommend that you buy only the 1 piezo unit to learn on, this is very simple. i will show you how different geometries governs wave qualities, you can put together off the shelf componenets that best suit your needs.
    Could you give more details on how to make one?

    Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • FRC
    replied
    What about ?

    What about vaporzers used for pot (smoking without the smoke). They are
    expensive, but would they maybe be more efficient.

    Vaporizers - Volcano Vaporizer - Herbal Vaporizers | Vaporizers.net

    Or another device ultrasonic jewelery cleaner. Any comments ?

    FRC
    Last edited by FRC; 02-16-2011, 08:10 PM. Reason: more info

    Leave a comment:


  • powerme
    replied
    Originally posted by Roland View Post
    I think the 30kHZ would be better. It was mentioned that 45kHZ is very good, and lead me to believe 30 kHZ is the minimum.

    Where did you find Ultrasonic transducers/transformers that listed the HZ's?

    I did find a 10 head fogger stating a1700 kHZ I dont know if thats adjustable?
    NEW 10 Head Pond Fogger Mister HYDROPONICS, HALLOWEEN - eBay (item 270441868179 end time Mar-05-11 04:43:11 PST)
    PWM and finding some stand alone piezoceramic transducers might be the better way
    the ultrasonnic fogger is the easiest way to go but not as effecient as custom build unit, if you buy a small piezo transducer, you can power it with pulse dc and it will work.

    i recommend that you buy only the 1 piezo unit to learn on, this is very simple. i will show you how different geometries governs wave qualities, you can put together off the shelf componenets that best suit your needs.

    Leave a comment:


  • powerme
    replied
    Originally posted by Cherryman View Post
    I'm not an expert :-)

    I did notice looking around for foggers that some have the Khz mentioned in their details, but not all.

    I asked it because the resonance of the fogger might have to be in accordance with the resonance of the crystal ..

    Anyway, just thinking out loud.

    Did find some background info on foggers and fire

    http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1239.0
    there are many uses for piezoelectric atomized water, you can inject it directly into your engine without crystals and cut back on gasoline.

    the addition of crystals will allow you run your ICE on water fuel alone.
    great link, lots of information there.

    there's a complete paper on ZnO crystal properties, I will try and dig it up when I get back.

    Leave a comment:


  • powerme
    replied
    Originally posted by RAD-HHO View Post
    Are you using Tyvek? Wikipedia states:
    "Water vapor can pass through Tyvek (highly breathable), but not liquid water"

    Is it in the water, or fog? Is it necessary?

    Thanks,
    Rick
    i just have to chk, good progress guys, but please, grow some crystals.

    waves tends to splash all times sending crystals splatering all over, it is best to contain crystals, they are really fine powder micro scopic nano sizes.

    it is best to contain them in an envelope but must be wettable by water as most waves is in the water.

    crystals are not consumed, they will last a long time, excess heat will break down their dielectric constant, I am not exactly sure of their value but it is in the 100's.

    CnO crystals grown according to the before mentionted procedure with reflux will varie in sizes from 1000 nm to 10 nm, do not stir your mixture during the last reflux phase so that the crystals will grow in size, the ZnO powder is already nm sizes. these mixed sized will allow it to resonate to broad spectrum of frequencies with the khz range.

    typical ultrasonic fogger found on ebay will work just fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cherryman
    replied
    Originally posted by Roland View Post
    I think the 30kHZ would be better. It was mentioned that 45kHZ is very good, and lead me to believe 30 kHZ is the minimum.

    Where did you find Ultrasonic transducers/transformers that listed the HZ's?

    I did find a 10 head fogger stating a1700 kHZ I dont know if thats adjustable?
    NEW 10 Head Pond Fogger Mister HYDROPONICS, HALLOWEEN - eBay (item 270441868179 end time Mar-05-11 04:43:11 PST)
    PWM and finding some stand alone piezoceramic transducers might be the better way

    I'm not an expert :-)

    I did notice looking around for foggers that some have the Khz mentioned in their details, but not all.

    I asked it because the resonance of the fogger might have to be in accordance with the resonance of the crystal ..

    Anyway, just thinking out loud.

    Did find some background info on foggers and fire

    http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1239.0

    Leave a comment:


  • RAD-HHO
    replied
    Tyvek

    Are you using Tyvek? Wikipedia states:
    "Water vapor can pass through Tyvek (highly breathable), but not liquid water"

    Is it in the water, or fog? Is it necessary?

    Thanks,
    Rick

    Leave a comment:


  • Roland
    replied
    Originally posted by Cherryman View Post
    Hi Powerme, great info!

    I have a few questions:

    - I have seen 20 Khz and 30 Khz foggers, does that make a difference?

    Regards

    C'man
    I think the 30kHZ would be better. It was mentioned that 45kHZ is very good, and lead me to believe 30 kHZ is the minimum.

    Where did you find Ultrasonic transducers/transformers that listed the HZ's?

    I did find a 10 head fogger stating a1700 kHZ I dont know if thats adjustable?
    NEW 10 Head Pond Fogger Mister HYDROPONICS, HALLOWEEN - eBay (item 270441868179 end time Mar-05-11 04:43:11 PST)
    PWM and finding some stand alone piezoceramic transducers might be the better way
    Last edited by Roland; 02-16-2011, 03:13 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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