None Electrolytic Splitting Of H2o

[nvisser]

Thank you Mike
This clears up most of my questions

[Slovenia]

Updated PDF File

I have attached the updated file of, "The Non Electrolytic Splitting Of The Water Molecule" thread.

Updated Doc with Energetic Forum link has just been uploaded.

Latest File Was Updated Through February 13, 2011 & Uploaded February 13, 2011.

[Farrah Day]

Hi Mike

I've been following with interest, wondering where this thread will end up going. I see there is a keen and eager following, but I also see that no one is asking the right questions.

I know you and many others consider me to be a prize 'thorn in the side', but I learned long ago to question everything and not to trust the answers to those questions until they are verified as fact. And nowhere does this philosophy apply more than on these forums, so you'll forgive me for never taking anyone at their word.

The only thing I'm aware of similar to what you are here stating is science fact, is the Kanzius discovery, but of course he used brine and we know 13.56MHz.

Are you saying that this can happen with just plain water? If so, exactly what reactions do you suggest are taking place to produce hydrogen and oxygen... and why? I did ask, but you never answered about whether the water was being caused to ionise. You see I can understand the water being induced to ionise by EMR, but that does not itself give rise to hydrogen and oxygen, so how are the gases being produced?

Looking at what people are posting it seems that everyone simply thinks that water will fall apart into oxygen and hydrogen when exposed to so many MHz of EMR. I find it really hard to fathom why no one is questioning - or even considering - the chemistry.

Now, being a stickler for details, you said that this is not theory but fact, so have you a link to anything that can support this statement... or is this to be taken on blind faith?

I would really appreciate a considered response to my questions... after all you do say it is science fact.

[Michael John Nunnerley]

@ Faraday

You have answered your own question as far as who has done this with Rf and it was not only with salt water, it was tested with other water formulas as well. The frequency was mixed and heterodyned in the salt water and other chemical mixes also proved to work but at different degrees.

A brine solution works well with radio frequencies and is one of the best in what I have shown, although other chemical compounds will work as well. Pure distilled water does not work, you need a crystaline compound, this does not form any other gas, it is a catalyst and remains in the water molecule. Copper sulphate also works, it is all to do with the absorbtion of the radio waves and not reflection.

Puharich was the first and he used also brine at a concentration equal to sea water. Meyer in the end copied Puharich but tried to disguise it. I have copied to a certain extent but have changed certain things that work better for me.

You really need to read Puharich very well, he gives quite an honest description, but his reasons are a little flawed on what was happening or that was his security. The trick is if I can call it that, the heterodyning has to be done in the water and not before, it is the absorbtion of the two RF signals that creates this and breaks those bonds as I have explained before.

I think that other frequencies can be used, I have chosen VHF and UHF as I am well conversed as I am a radio ham, G6GVA in England, but since changed as I live in Spain, you can look up my call sign if you like.

Mike

[DrStiffler]

@ Faraday

You have answered your own question as far as who has done this with Rf and it was not only with salt water, it was tested with other water formulas as well. The frequency was mixed and heterodyned in the salt water and other chemical mixes also proved to work but at different degrees.

A brine solution works well with radio frequencies and is one of the best in what I have shown, although other chemical compounds will work as well. Pure distilled water does not work, you need a crystaline compound, this does not form any other gas, it is a catalyst and remains in the water molecule. Copper sulphate also works, it is all to do with the absorbtion of the radio waves and not reflection.

Puharich was the first and he used also brine at a concentration equal to sea water. Meyer in the end copied Puharich but tried to disguise it. I have copied to a certain extent but have changed certain things that work better for me.

You really need to read Puharich very well, he gives quite an honest description, but his reasons are a little flawed on what was happening or that was his security. The trick is if I can call it that, the heterodyning has to be done in the water and not before, it is the absorbtion of the two RF signals that creates this and breaks those bonds as I have explained before.

I think that other frequencies can be used, I have chosen VHF and UHF as I am well conversed as I am a radio ham, G6GVA in England, but since changed as I live in Spain, you can look up my call sign if you like.

Mike

@Michael
You may find this interesting;

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2003/hydrogen-0924.html

Hydrogen bonds in liquid water are broken only fleetingly — PNAS

[DrStiffler]

Mixing in non-linear medium

@Michael

I would propose a question for you?

Having f1 & f2 we would of course find f1, f2, f1+f2 and f2-f1. Now this of course is the simplest view. Now when you apply f1 and f2 to your cell, are you assuming this simple approach to f results or are you considering a superposition mode of operation?

With enough energy placed into the cell and we assume the non-linear mixing, would we not see a very large and somewhat high in energy content vast number of additional frequencies?

Thank, just food for thought....

[Michael John Nunnerley]

@Michael

I would propose a question for you?

Having f1 & f2 we would of course find f1, f2, f1+f2 and f2-f1. Now this of course is the simplest view. Now when you apply f1 and f2 to your cell, are you assuming this simple approach to f results or are you considering a superposition mode of operation?

With enough energy placed into the cell and we assume the non-linear mixing, would we not see a very large and somewhat high in energy content vast number of additional frequencies?

Thank, just food for thought....

Hi Dr. Stiffler

You are very right, you end up with many frequencies with a fine line between them. I will go into the fine line on Monday when I have come back fro a trip, must go now, people are waiting for me

Mike

[Farrah Day]

Mike

You have answered your own question as far as who has done this with Rf and it was not only with salt water, it was tested with other water formulas as well. The frequency was mixed and heterodyned in the salt water and other chemical mixes also proved to work but at different degrees.

I see, so all this is based on Kanzuis, so we're never talking about just water, but water with an electrolyte added. This has not been mentioned until now.

What is your source of all this information? I've followed the Kanzius discovery, and yes though I too believe it would possibly work with other electrolytes, I have never heard of such experiments. Will you cite a source of reference?

Puharich was the first and he used also brine at a concentration equal to sea water. Meyer in the end copied Puharich but tried to disguise it. I have copied to a certain extent but have changed certain things that work better for me.

You are saying that YOU have actually done this?

You really need to read Puharich very well, he gives quite an honest description, but his reasons are a little flawed on what was happening or that was his security. The trick is if I can call it that, the heterodyning has to be done in the water and not before, it is the absorbtion of the two RF signals that creates this and breaks those bonds as I have explained before.

You say that Puharich's reasoning was a little flawed. What then is your interpretation of what is happening?

Mike, the one question that I keep asking and the one you keep avoiding like the plague is about the reactions. I take it from your lack of response that you do not know or cannot suggest what chemistry is taking place then? But if this is so, how can you be so sure Puharich's reasoning was flawed?

You do not know whether or not the water is ionising... is this correct?

[Duncan]

[wings]

superradiance

[Slovenia]

Thanks

Duncan,

Thanks for all you have shared including your tactful hint to the Farrah.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[Farrah Day]

Yeah, everyone is lovely and wonderful... knighthoods, medals of honour, etc, etc.... I get all that. All very nice, but does anybody actually want to discuss the science involved here?

Is anyone actually considering the science of this... or is everyone simply hopping on the bandwagon, happy to just heap on the praise and follow Mikes lead?

Thanks for all you have shared including your tactful hint to the Farrah.

What's this supposed to mean? What hint?

I'm simply questioning the effect the EMR is having. Forget all the fancy electronics to get the required EMR, the key to this is what reactions are taking place within the electrolytic solution.

Mike is yet to talk about this, which is where my personal interest lies and hence all the questions. In fact, if you look through this thread, the science involved has yet to even be touched upon. And it seems to me that rather a lot is simply being taken for granted by everyone.

Anybody else care to have a stab at the chemistry that takes us from water to oxygen and hydrogen?

Initially I thought Mike was talking about dissociating water without an electrolyte, but now we know this is not the case. So unless Mike brings something new to the table, then we have no more information than already provided by Kanzius... do we!

[Corey]

Nvisser & others,

I think we should perform a Meyer replication in as expedient a fashion as possible using just the most basic bare bones apparatus to get a good proof of concept device only. In other words just one or two tube set cell to start with. When we determine how to properly tune this arrangement and get a working prototype, we can build the cell as large and complicate as we like. In the mean time I think we need to utilize the KISS principle and keep the system as simple as possible.

I have a good acquaintance who has expended a lot of money working on the Meyer cell system over the past several years. I'm pretty sure this fellow will help us. He'd like to get his cells working too and he has many of them. So, I'll contact him and see what can be done. I'm sure I can get him to offer some advise on where we should start.


I don't want to trouble Michael Nunnerley to much for details which we can get somewhere else.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

It seems to me that it would be more simple (KISS) to get past the big electrolyser, and go directly to a Meyer like 'plug cell'. It just seems to me that it would be less bulky and less dangerous if all the reactions and bond breaking is being done in the cylinder, rather than pumping in the solution from a remote location.

[Duncan]

Maximum Power Transfer TheoremHow a Yagi Beam Antenna Works

[Duncan]