Stanley Meyer tec devices test and debugging suite

[chasson321]

4046 data sheet

Hi bussi,


Do you have a 4046 data sheet with the formulas ?


Eric

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74HC_HCT4046A_CNV.pdf

[Tecstatic]

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sh...T4046A_CNV.pdf

Hi chasson321,

It was not, but thanks a lot, as it has made it clear to me that bussy and I are probably not talking about the same IC.

The SM5 diagram mentions a 4046.
That what I have data sheet for and refer to.

But from bussi's talk of an unused output on pin 15, it seems bussi are using the newer 4046A with 3 comparators.

Am I right bussi ?

The data sheet chasson321 posted has a design calculation example. If components are calculated this way with your own numbers, it should work right away.

Eric

[Tecstatic]

One more thing.

I assume you have a 2 channel oscilloscope.

Connect probes to U4 pin 3 and 14, and watch the signals simultaneously on the scope.

Turn RV7 so the frequency varies around the resonant frequency. You should be able to see a phase shift, if not, then the 4046 can not either.

Have you at any point in time seen LED D6 on ?

Eric

[bussi04]

One more thing.

I assume you have a 2 channel oscilloscope.

Connect probes to U4 pin 3 and 14, and watch the signals simultaneously on the scope.

Turn RV7 so the frequency varies around the resonant frequency. You should be able to see a phase shift, if not, then the 4046 can not either.

Have you at any point in time seen LED D6 on ?

Eric

@tecstatic
when I manually raise voltage at pin 9 from 4045 hz on (resonance frequency) at pin 3 there are positive spikes at pin 4 of U8 and D6 gets (pulsed) on. raising frequency to 5800 hz elongates the on-phase at pin 4 and D6 gets brighter.
yes I have 2 oscilloscopes with each 2 channels.
now I do the measurement.

bussi04

[Tecstatic]

Hi Eric,
U3 is oscillating at 53 Hz producing triangular voltage between 0.5V and 4V.
Using a pot I can adjust voltage at pin 9 of U4 manually.
The pll doesn´t lock in yet.
for C10 I use 500 nF, R13 = 0 Ohm, R12=pot 2 MOhm, pin 1 of pot R12 connected to C10, pin 2 of pot R12 is connected to pin13 of U4, pin 3 of pot R12 open > voltage always between 4 and 5 Volts depending on resistance of R12
when pin3 of pot R12 is connected to GND I can preset voltage to 2.5V using the pot.

but
D5 R14 C11 don´t work, there is no special lock at 4050 Hz but pulsing at pin4 of U8B.
I can change the value of C11, but there is no lock in.

bussi04

Forget about D5 R14 C11, We need to test the ability to lock in.

Connect U8 pin5 to VCC for testing without the switchover circuit in operation.

I think it will be wise to keep a log of the modifications you make. Note the permanent corrections and also the temporary test ones.

We need to see if the wires at P3 P4 is connected right.

With the RV7 pin 2 connected to VCC, have the frequency below Fres, your C10 should be close to 5V.

With the RV7 pin 2 connected to VCC, have the frequency above Fres, your C10 should be close to 0V.

If not, revert the wires at P3 P4 test again and let me hear your findings.

Please check for my postings at least every 10 minutes, lets keep a tight feedback and finish this tonight.

Eric

[bussi04]

One more thing.

I assume you have a 2 channel oscilloscope.

Connect probes to U4 pin 3 and 14, and watch the signals simultaneously on the scope.

Turn RV7 so the frequency varies around the resonant frequency. You should be able to see a phase shift, if not, then the 4046 can not either.

Have you at any point in time seen LED D6 on ?

Eric

@tecstatic
yes, u4 pin 3 and 14 are most out of phase at 1800 hz, at resonance they are out of phase but not so much as at 1800 hz. they are in phase at 5800 hz.

bussi04

[bussi04]

Good, the set the center frequency to 5800Hz.

Here we get punished, because we don't have the same resonance frequency at the primary and secondary of the transformer. But this is only a test circuit so we don't care if we hit the resonance, we just want to see the 4046 at work OK.

This is also a hint for the final VIC, here we can not accept the lock on a non-resonant frequency.

Alternatively you could try tuning the primary also, whatever is most easy for you.

What about the other questions ?

Eric

shall I set the center frequency to 5800 hz?

-------
done, center frequency is 5800 hz.

[bussi04]

@tecstatic
to get control to pin7 of RV7 to switch it to VCC I pulled out U2. So I also lost the OPAMP for signal feedback - sorry.
I put it in and repeat the test.

bussi04

now there is a switching behaviour at pin 13 of u4 at 5380 hz.

[Tecstatic]

now there is a switching behaviour at pin 13 of u4 at 5380 hz.

Good

I assume this pulsing stops if not near the "resonance" frequency ?

If it disappears, then we have a lock indication. In that case remove the VCC connection to U8 pin 5.

Maybe for test only, you need to change C11 to 22n or 33n or 47n.
The purpose of D5, R14, C11 is to detect the pulse train to a permanent logic "1".

Eric

[bussi04]

U8 pin 5 to vcc for test
Pin 2 of RV7 connected to VCC
U2 in circuit again
Set center frequency to 5600 hz
Switching frequency > 5500 hz >> U4 pin 13 goes low
Switching frequency > 5500 hz >> U4 pin 13 high

post #1440 doesn´t exist, which one?

@tecstatic
ok, C10 behaviour:
less then 5300 hz C10 voltage is high, above 5300 hz it switches to low.
now there is a lock in condition.
bussi04

[Tecstatic]

U8 pin 5 to vcc for test
Pin 2 of RV7 connected to VCC
U2 in circuit again
Set center frequency to 5600 hz
Switching frequency > 5500 hz >> U4 pin 13 goes low
Switching frequency > 5500 hz >> U4 pin 13 high

post #1440 doesn´t exist, which one?

Sorry my typo, you did what I wanted.

"Switching frequency > 5500 hz >> U4 pin 13 high"
do you mean
"Switching frequency < 5500 hz >> U4 pin 13 high" ?

If yes, the phase comparator works.

Then do the mods in my previous post, use RV7 to adjust to the center freuency.

Then you should see:

1. The pulse train at U4 pin 13
2. steady logic "0" at U8 pin 4
3. no light in D6

And this should be maintained, even though you dial RV7.

Please replace R15 to 4K7, and connect to U7 pin 11 instead of U8 pin 4.
Now D6 should indicate locked OK.

Eric

[Tecstatic]

Hi All,
Now I just ran a search on the wavelengths of the arura lights to refesh my memory on the different wavelengths involved. 630-634 nm for first/ second level oxygen, 557.1 nm for third and fourth with 410.5 nm aiding the fourth energy level. Nitrogen is around 390 nm, 395 nm, and 470 nm since I am not looking to do anything with the nitrogen those wavelengths were not chosen. Something else interesting I found was the ionizations occur perpendicular to the electromagnetic field and for the gas processor that is in the direction of the air flow towards the intake system due to it being a capacitor and the field lines are always perpendicular to a capacitors surfaces. That was just an interesting find and shows that this higher form of energy and the electrostatic form of energy are both being used in the Gas Processor.


h2opower.

H2O, Super

Do you have at hand the frequencies of mercury ?
I once saw a site where I could look all this up, but now I can't remember where.

I also saw somewhere that Stan had several GPs in series, maybe he raised the ionization level in each of the GPs.

Eric

[bussi04]

Good

I assume this pulsing stops if not near the "resonance" frequency ?

If it disappears, then we have a lock indication. In that case remove the VCC connection to U8 pin 5.

Maybe for test only, you need to change C11 to 22n or 33n or 47n.
The purpose of D5, R14, C11 is to detect the pulse train to a permanent logic "1".

Eric

@tecstatic
U8 pin 5 reconnected to U8 pin 6
Pin 2 of RV7 connected to VCC
U2 in circuit again
Set center frequency to 5600 hz

not near resonance frequency there is stability in signal at pin 13 of U4.

question:
voltage at C11:
- the less pF, the more rectangular signal shape!
- D5 forces C11 to be loaded immediatly to 90% of high value at high state at pin3 of U7 and then there is a diagonal voltage increase for 10 more percent of high value.
there is no voltage integration because of D5.
why?

bussi04

[Tecstatic]

@tecstatic
U8 pin 5 reconnected to U8 pin 6
Pin 2 of RV7 connected to VCC
U2 in circuit again
Set center frequency to 5600 hz

not near resonance frequency there is stability in signal at pin 13 of U4.

question:
voltage at C11:
- the less pF, the more rectangular signal shape!
- D5 forces C11 to be loaded immediatly to 90% of high value at high state at pin3 of U7 and then there is a diagonal voltage increase for 10 more percent of high value.
there is no voltage integration because of D5.
why?

bussi04

As stated above:

The purpose of D5, R14, C11 is to detect the pulse train to a permanent logic "1".

So at 5600Hz we need a time constant larger than 200us. for R14 * C11.

not near resonance frequency there is stability in signal at pin 13 of U4.

I do not understand, please clarify. Stable "0", "1", pulse train ?

Eric

[bussi04]

As stated above:


So at 5600Hz we need a time constant larger than 200us. for R14 * C11.



I do not understand, please clarify. Stable "0", "1", pulse train ?

Eric

if it goes low it´s stable 0, if it goes high it´s a pulse train high/tristate.