Ionization & Water Fuel

[dave_cahoon]

Human nature at its finest!
It doesn't get any better than this, boys and girls...

[pengrove]

Ammonia engine

Ammonia

[vrand]

Ammonia engine

Ammonia

Pengrove, we all agree that ammonia is a viable source of fuel to run an engine.

Its how to make it "On Demand" is the $64 question.

Do you have a photo of your air processor?

Regards, Mike R.

[pengrove]

Well I am wondering If Tonka is going to show us his genset running on NH3. Where is it at?

[Aaron]

nh3 on demand

It is simple to think it through.

If splitting nitrogen and having enough electrons stripped from nitrogen,
it seems pretty easy to set up a system to combine that nitrogen ion
with hydrogen so that nh3 can form.

Shamus spelled out that very important clue but everyone seems to
ignore it. To me, that is the mystery and not how to produce NH3.

[tutanka]

It is simple to think it through.

If splitting nitrogen and having enough electrons stripped from nitrogen,
it seems pretty easy to set up a system to combine that nitrogen ion
with hydrogen so that nh3 can form.

Shamus spelled out that very important clue but everyone seems to
ignore it. To me, that is the mystery and not how to produce NH3.

Yes, that is correct but in all case you need an controlled chain reaction

[pengrove]

Well Aaron, since you've thrown it out there, I might as well take a stab at it...

An N2 molecule has 14 electrons between them, 3 of which are shared between the two atoms. The outer valence shells are full; the atoms are happy. Now when you break those guys apart, you still have 14 electrons; seven in each atom with five in the outer valence shell. Now the atomic nitrogen atoms very much want their outer valence shells to be full, and they each have space for three electrons.

Those electrons can come from just about anywhere: A passing electron, or another atom looking to do the electron swapping thing like an atom of hydrogen. If the outer valence shells of the atomic nitrogen fill up with free electrons (what some might call a "natural electron extraction circuit") you end up with an atomic nitrogen ion with a 3e- charge. If the outer valence shells find hydrogen atoms, then covalent bonds are formed and you have a molecule of ammonia. Other combinations are of course possible, depending on energy levels among other things. But that's the basics as far as I understand them.

So which is it then, nitrogen ions or ammonia? I think it's probably both, though the proportions are probably heavily dependent on just what's flying around your reaction vessel.

Where has Shamus been?

[Farrah Day]

Hi Aaron

It is simple to think it through.

If splitting nitrogen and having enough electrons stripped from nitrogen,
it seems pretty easy to set up a system to combine that nitrogen ion
with hydrogen so that nh3 can form.

Shamus spelled out that very important clue but everyone seems to
ignore it. To me, that is the mystery and not how to produce NH3.

I see Tut has given a thumbs-up to this statement, but I'm puzzled because I really don't see anything easy or simple here. I can understand the reaction of dissociating the N2 into atoms, and then reacting these atoms with hydrogen to get NH3, but what is the stripping of electrons all about?

Afterall, you can't get NH3 unless all the elements are atoms. A nitrogen atom stripped of it's valence electrons would then no longer have the required electrons for covalent bonding to hydrogen in order to form NH3. Put simply the reaction to NH3 would no longer occur.

If you somehow ionise the nitrogen atom to make it N+, then it would require 4 hydrogen atoms to covalent bond - hence you would not get ammonia, but the NH4+ ammonium ion.

I'm not nay-saying here to spoil the party, I'm simply pointing out the obvious.

Perhaps Tut would care to elaborate on this.

Regards, Farrah

[Aaron]

nh4

If you somehow ionise the nitrogen atom to make it N+, then it would require 4 hydrogen atoms to covalent bond - hence you would not get ammonia, but the NH4+ ammonium ion.

edit: changing question...

If you break n2's triple bond, what does it try to attract to itself in that state?

If that atomic nitrogen is in the presence of atomic hydrogen, can nh3 form?

If n2 is split is the atomic nitrogen an ATOM of nitrogen, ION of nitrogen or both
at the same time?

[sebosfato]

I'm studying molecular and atomic physics in the university, and in the last class i had a discussion on my theory about creating oh oh instead of h2o as exhaust and they think that it is possible if we ionize the oxygen negatively adding to it 1 electron because it would fill one of the 2 holes of the oxygen, allowing only one hydrogen to bound per oxygen atom. Thus combusting the hydrogen with more oxygen than that from electrolysis... Actually i thought that if we could fill both holes we would not allow the reformation of the H20.

What did meyer said???

[Aaron]

plug or circuit?

Tutanka still says nothing. I will help him. Aaron. Your water spark plug is too complicated. It needs to be more simple.

Do you mean the nascent plug? That isn't mine.

Or do you mean the water sparkplug plasma circuit?

[sebosfato]

However if we think that we are again, charging the oxygen positively lets say leaving it with a deficiency of 1 electron we would have H3O+ formation witch would be more likely to be what meyer said because it would lead to the formation of half the molecules of water used as output. Witch would also relate to a decrease in mass!!! A huge decrease, as oxygen represents the 88% of water weight! This would generate oxygen too! but would really consume the water! than water would evaporate receive sun rays and bound with other oxygen becoming water molecules stable again..
How about this tutanka???

The H3O+ ion getting inside the water become an electrolyte... maybe??

[tutanka]

However if we think that we are again, charging the oxygen positively lets say leaving it with a deficiency of 1 electron we would have H3O+ formation witch would be more likely to be what meyer said because it would lead to the formation of half the molecules of water used as output. Witch would also relate to a decrease in mass!!! A huge decrease, as oxygen represents the 88% of water weight! This would generate oxygen too! but would really consume the water! than water would evaporate receive sun rays and bound with other oxygen becoming water molecules stable again..
How about this tutanka???

The H3O+ ion getting inside the water become an electrolyte... maybe??

Meyer create ions with steam resonator but I have found another simple solution, in all case you need to create controlled chain reaction using right water and right sequence of process ionization. The theory on nitrogen atomic is correct, that bond simply when found atomic hydrogen atoms. Regards

[sebosfato]

Lithium nitride reacts violently with water to produce ammonia:

[Aaron]

@Vickers

I mean your drawing my friend. Can buy a nascent? plug in any auto parts store.

The nascents aren't available now. That plug belongs to other people,
not myself.

What drawing are you talking about?